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OfflineAlphaFalfa
imagine


Registered: 06/16/08
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: teknix]
    #17785123 - 02/11/13 06:53 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
There is a likelyhood or degree of certainty, that one is correct, and that likelyhood is determined by all the known facts and limited by the missing facts.





That's foolish.

You will never know what you cannot possibly know.

A guy who doesn't speak English and will never be able to speak english will never be able to know what a book written in english will say.

So your telling him that he can never be certain about anything because he hasn't read that book????

Cmon'

Stop being a fatalist and answer the tough questions, climb the highest peak possible, transverse the path to the fullest, even if you aren't certain you will ever....

As the saying goes;

DO THE BEST YOU CAN WITH THE MOST YOU HAVE.


--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...



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Invisibleteknix
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Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 11,953
Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #17785134 - 02/11/13 06:54 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

To be a 1 or -1  all data has to be present. ALL OF IT.


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OfflineAlphaFalfa
imagine


Registered: 06/16/08
Posts: 3,857
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: teknix]
    #17785147 - 02/11/13 06:56 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
To be a 1 or -1  all data has to be present. ALL OF IT.





:thumbdown:

If I told you god likes to eat peanut butter and banana sandwiches, what sort of data would you need to prove and/or disprove this?


--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...



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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #17785158 - 02/11/13 06:57 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

You couldn't unless you were able to define god.

Look; the less data you have the less certain the conclusion becomes.


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OfflineAlphaFalfa
imagine


Registered: 06/16/08
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: teknix]
    #17785202 - 02/11/13 07:04 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
You couldn't unless you were able to define god.

Look; the less data you have the less certain the conclusion becomes.





How do you know HOW MUCH data THERE IS, in the first place???


--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...



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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: teknix]
    #17785209 - 02/11/13 07:05 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Your fallacy is this;

Fallacy of composition - assumes what is true of the parts is true of the whole. This fallacy is also known as "arguing from the specific to the general"

Since Judy is so diligent in the workplace, this entire company must have an amazing work ethic.

"Since this definition of god is shown to be false then god must be false"


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #17785222 - 02/11/13 07:08 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:
Quote:

teknix said:
You couldn't unless you were able to define god.

Look; the less data you have the less certain the conclusion becomes.





How do you know HOW MUCH data THERE IS, in the first place???




Exactly, until everything is unified or correlates, we can't make any absolute conclusions about anything absolute.

That's why the "Big Bang" is a theory, it seems most likely, not certain.


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Offlineclam_dude
stranger in astrange land

Registered: 09/10/03
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Mr Person]
    #17785226 - 02/11/13 07:08 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Mr Person said:

Quote:

clam_dude said:

Words mean whatever people think they mean, and there is a general sense of what the word "god" means - it usually implies something supernatural, or a divine creator.




Yes exactly, thank you.  And the "general sense" is that atheism means an active belief that god does not exist.





I was actually going to bring up the same subject just before I read this. We can look at the absolute, dictionary definition.  And, depending on the dictionary, the definition might range from belief there is not a god, to lack of a belief in god. 

But of course, what matters is what so-called atheists themselves define themselves as.  I'm telling you that of the most prominent atheists today, very few if any, claim "god" is impossible.  Dawkins, Dennett, Myers, Hitchens, and Harris are all agnostic about god's existence (although harris doesn't like the word "atheist," but for purely political reasons).

The same is true for all of the atheists I've encountered.


--------------------
"I would like to thank god for making me an atheist" - Ricky Gervais


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Offlineclam_dude
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: teknix]
    #17785251 - 02/11/13 07:13 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
It means looking at the big picture and realizing you can't even define god rather than accepting the varying interpretations of god through religion, rituals, magic, etc.




Again, your question is uncomprehendible 
Do you mean "other" instead of "rather"?


--------------------
"I would like to thank god for making me an atheist" - Ricky Gervais


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: clam_dude]
    #17785262 - 02/11/13 07:15 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Define GOD, before you decide does it exist.


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: teknix]
    #17785274 - 02/11/13 07:17 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Give god a definition you would find acceptable. Then tell me it doesn't exist and I'll call you a hypocrit.


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Invisiblelessismore

Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: teknix]
    #17785282 - 02/11/13 07:18 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

(e
Quote:

clam_dude said:
I'm not trying to be confrontational.  That's just my honest opinion.



A theory is a theory once it has been scientifically (and empirically) proven
but if it doesn't fit into nature it isn't worth anything, so the big bang theory can still be discarded in the future (like any other theory we have in science, for science is a model of nature, doesn't matter if it is proven or not if it doesn't fit nature!).

Big Bang hasn't been described down to 0 seconds, and we still only know around 20% of the matter in the known universe, so disproving a creator/god is a little early, even if we could account for all matter in the universe there might be (many) other dimensions.
M theory says (afaik) that there are 10^500 universes and at least 11 dimensions, and we only know the 4 of them (and 20% of the universe we are in) :smile:

When I was atheist myself I never needed to disprove god all the time - I didn't believe in a god but I wasn't sure if I did or there might be one, there are lots of very intellectual people who have believed in a God.
I think Agnosticism is more rational than atheism, we cannot disprove a god/creator when we know almost nothing about our universe (we know a lot but there is still a lot we don't know).

Not everything that counts can be counted, not everything that can be counted counts.

We don't even know what a (quantum) measurement is, so how can we disprove a god?:smile:

WRT: your earlier posting about thanking god for making you atheist, how would creation be perfect if he didn't give you free will?

The thing with science and knowledge in general is, the more you know, the more you realize that you don't know and how limited your knowledge is (at least for most people, but some people think they know everything) (and not talking about the poster here, but people in general)

The thing that fascinates me is the almost strikingly perfect balance between forces, electromagnetically forces in our bodies, gravity on the large scale, cosmological constant (is just about right for life and the universe to exist iirc) etc.
Our bodies are 99.999% empty, yet they hold together


Edited by lessismore (02/11/13 07:46 PM)


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: lessismore]
    #17785321 - 02/11/13 07:23 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

mio said:
A theory is a theory once it has been scientifically proven





No, A theory had independent lines of evidence in consilience pointing towards it, it is not proven. That's how and why science evolves.


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Offlineclam_dude
stranger in astrange land

Registered: 09/10/03
Posts: 1,717
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: teknix]
    #17785325 - 02/11/13 07:23 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Define GOD, before you decide does it exist.





lol way to switch the topic.  Go back and read the thread, especially the posts where I dealt with the definitions of god.  I don't have time to keep repeating myself.


--------------------
"I would like to thank god for making me an atheist" - Ricky Gervais


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: clam_dude]
    #17785334 - 02/11/13 07:24 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

I'm trying to make it simple for you.


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Invisiblelessismore

Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: clam_dude]
    #17785354 - 02/11/13 07:28 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Define GOD, before you decide does it exist.





That would make sense :smile:


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Offlineclam_dude
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: teknix]
    #17785362 - 02/11/13 07:29 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
I'm trying to make it simple for you.




Teknix, all of your posts are so poorly worded, I can barely understand what you mean half the time. 

Instead of "Define GOD, before you decide does it exist," replace "does" with "if." (and remove the comma).

I'm not trying to busy your balls, it's just that I really didn't understand what you were asking earlier.


--------------------
"I would like to thank god for making me an atheist" - Ricky Gervais


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Offlineclam_dude
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: clam_dude]
    #17785371 - 02/11/13 07:31 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

And like I said, go back and read the earlier posts. I already addressed this.


--------------------
"I would like to thank god for making me an atheist" - Ricky Gervais


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: clam_dude]
    #17785414 - 02/11/13 07:38 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

sry, i was tryin speak tard for ya's.


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OfflineGilbertC06
Omnipotent to a fault.


Registered: 01/29/13
Posts: 597
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: clam_dude]
    #17785423 - 02/11/13 07:40 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

clam_dude said:
I'm not trying to be confrontational.  That's just my honest opinion.




No, because it takes a stance on something you can't possibly know. Therefore Athiests are in a sense another set of "believers". They just believe the opposite.


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