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InvisibleKukaracha
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Registered: 12/18/08
Posts: 1,682
Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Synapse Trap]
    #20687264 - 10/11/14 05:46 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Right, you just don't know!

And before I asked that question, did you:

A) Not believe in the existance of those keys,
B) Believe that the key did not exist

or were you simply

C) ignorant of the question?


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OfflineHierophant
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Kukaracha]
    #20697068 - 10/13/14 01:04 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Deities do exist, even if they are simply a product of those that believe in them, if you feed a concept with your psychic energy it takes shape and is given a degree of power in your consciousness as well as the collective consciousness, whether or not a deity or deities existed objectively prior to their recognition through the collective mind of humanity is of little consequence, what matters is that some recognize and worship them. its beautiful, its terrifying, it's a mutidimensional and multifaceted concept that ultimately comes to fruition within the individual through their thoughts, emotions and actions.


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There is a golden book kept in my heart and guarded by my soul, written in Divine Light and bound with the veins of the Earth.


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OfflineSynapse Trap
Eating God's Holy Cannabis Plant
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Hierophant]
    #20697592 - 10/13/14 02:58 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

C


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Synapse Trap

:flyhigh:


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Hierophant]
    #20697976 - 10/13/14 04:26 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Hierophant said:
Deities do exist





You believe you mean.  Just because I imagine a unicorn or dragon doesn't mean they exists in a way that can act on this physical reality.  Some people believe they are Jesus but that don't make it so.  They must wonder why they can't walk on water anymore. :lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Icelander]
    #20697994 - 10/13/14 04:31 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Feet pontoons FTW.


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Invisibleliquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #20698087 - 10/13/14 04:54 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

At yer expenseses. :cheers:


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As far as I assume to know...


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: liquidlounge]
    #20698102 - 10/13/14 04:57 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)



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OfflineHierophant
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Icelander]
    #20698670 - 10/13/14 06:58 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

Hierophant said:
Deities do exist





You believe you mean.  Just because I imagine a unicorn or dragon doesn't mean they exists in a way that can act on this physical reality.  Some people believe they are Jesus but that don't make it so.  They must wonder why they can't walk on water anymore. :lol:




You obviously didnt understand my post... I believe deities exist within the confines of the psyche, the fact that we can talk about them proves as much, as for their existence as an objective reality, I don't know, I've never met one.


--------------------
There is a golden book kept in my heart and guarded by my soul, written in Divine Light and bound with the veins of the Earth.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Hierophant]
    #20698689 - 10/13/14 07:02 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

OK I agree with that. :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleKukaracha
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Synapse Trap]
    #20743860 - 10/23/14 04:54 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Synapse Trap said:
C



Then why do we bother with this idea of burden of proof? The neutral state of the human mind regarding the question of god is simply ignorance.

And, as they say, ignorance is indeed divine bliss.


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OfflineHierophant
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Kukaracha]
    #20744957 - 10/23/14 08:49 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Ignorance isn't divine bliss, that comes through ecstatic revelation or epiphany which is the opposite of ignorance.


--------------------
There is a golden book kept in my heart and guarded by my soul, written in Divine Light and bound with the veins of the Earth.


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Eating God's Holy Cannabis Plant
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Hierophant]
    #20745187 - 10/23/14 09:50 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

ok so, natural state: ignorance of the question.
So what? as I mentioned, what if the concept of the possibility that a deity exists crosses the majority of human minds at some point in their lives?

As a species, one must, in light of the sheer number of theists on planet earth(approx 5b?), conclude that homo-sapiens is a spiritual animal.
This is not to be confused w/ appealing to the masses because I'm not making the claim "God exists because x many ppl believe it" rather, I'm saying it is "typical" for humans to believe in a god or gods; it is atypical to be an atheist.

So: I agree with you about Burden of Proof and Default Position being rather moot points once the subject is available for pondering.

I would add more, but I'm typing on my phone.


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Synapse Trap

:flyhigh:


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OfflineSynapse Trap
Eating God's Holy Cannabis Plant
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Synapse Trap]
    #20745208 - 10/23/14 09:53 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Apart from using faith, strong atheism is untenable.


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Synapse Trap

:flyhigh:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Synapse Trap]
    #20745631 - 10/23/14 11:23 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

If you mean by that the ridiculous notion that there is for certain no creator then I agree.

I'm wondering if this is the longest running debate thread in this forums history?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Icelander]
    #20745651 - 10/23/14 11:27 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

It should be a two poster:

1. Is there evidence for your God?

2. No.

:lockdance:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #20745703 - 10/23/14 11:51 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Agnosticism ftw.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Eating God's Holy Cannabis Plant
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #20745748 - 10/24/14 12:14 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
It should be a two poster:

1. Is there evidence for your God?

2. No.






But what is your evidence for the truth statement represented by 2. "No." ?

(remember, lack of evidence is not in itself evidence to the contrary)

For the record however, I do not believe there is a lack of evidence for a god or gods.
(But this is merely my faith-based belief system)

And what is meant by the word "your" in the first statement. Replace it with the word "a", otherwise, we are back to one of my original points in this thread. Why is the deity concept mine? I didn't come up with it, perhaps a god did.


--------------------
Synapse Trap

:flyhigh:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Synapse Trap]
    #20745761 - 10/24/14 12:23 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

For the record however, I do not believe there is a lack of evidence for a god or gods.
(But this is merely my faith-based belief system)


This is one reason it's usually pointless trying to converse with a religious person. They make nonsense statements as if they made some actual sense.  Maybe you should take a look at what you just said above and try using your intellect and reason this time.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineSynapse Trap
Eating God's Holy Cannabis Plant
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Icelander]
    #20745792 - 10/24/14 12:40 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
For the record however, I do not believe there is a lack of evidence for a god or gods.
(But this is merely my faith-based belief system)


This is one reason it's usually pointless trying to converse with a religious person. They make nonsense statements as if they made some actual sense.  Maybe you should take a look at what you just said above and try using your intellect and reason this time.




dont resort to ad hom.
it makes u look bad, and out of ideas.

I was conceding (for the moment) that there is no evidence for god.
I don't believe that, personally.. but, EVEN IF THERE WERE NONE: lack of evidence FOR something, is not evidence AGAINST it.

If you have no evidence placing me in Tucson yesterday, is that evidence that I was in fact NOT in Tucson yesterday?

Chew on it for a minute..

Isn't an invisible spirit being exactly what most theistic paradigms argue? Isn't a lack of evidence exactly what we would expect to see from a deity that wished to hide himself/itself to be sought?

Yet you probably believe in contrails with zero evidence.


--------------------
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:flyhigh:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Synapse Trap]
    #20745809 - 10/24/14 12:51 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

:boring:

Yes and there's no evidence the tooth fairy doesn't exist and santa and the boogy man.  That's hardly something you want to base a belief system on.  Unless you believe on faith that is and you're three years old.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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