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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: TheOtherAdamSmith]
    #19263087 - 12/11/13 09:56 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

You should be checking the research better.  Especially if you are writing a thesis on it...


http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=8826658&fulltextType=RA&fileId=S0033291712003066


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Offlinestellarshnap
Poet who doesn't know it


Registered: 05/24/12
Posts: 646
Last seen: 7 years, 19 days
Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: DieCommie]
    #19263279 - 12/11/13 10:31 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

TheOtherAdamSmith said:
Like the Buddha said, "anything I say that doesn't make sense to you, just ignore."

Paraphrasing but something like that.




The Buddha also said that when you realize how perfect everything is you'll throw your head back at the sky and laugh.

I remember I was on mushrooms discussing anything and everything with my friend. My other friend said stop thinking and dance. It struck me how wise what he said was.


--------------------
Careful, though your mind may be over matter, matter is all we really know.
"Or is it?"

The problem with intelligence is that it fosters arrogance, and arrogance suffocates intelligence. True intelligence however, bites holes in the bag.


Edited by stellarshnap (12/11/13 10:33 PM)


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OfflineGilbertC06
Omnipotent to a fault.


Registered: 01/29/13
Posts: 597
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: andrewmurray86]
    #19263315 - 12/11/13 10:38 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

andrewmurray86 said:
Quote:

GilbertC06 said:
Quote:

andrewmurray86 said:
Not entirely sure there is any other way to describe or define the term atheist (it's literally No God-ist)

It's a worldview that shapes how you interact with the world. It boggles me, the intellectual and philosophical gymnastics that one who claims the title "atheist" does when arguing things of morality, ethics, law and social justice.

There are plenty of people who would deny the existence of deity but want to hold to the values ascribed to said deities while claiming that those values are intrinsically human. Moral relativists are the most gymnastic bunch of the lot.





You don't know the terms.

You also have no clue what youre talking about.




no just a tertiary education in it, no idea at all.




Then you would have a basic understanding that morals do not come from the bible. Try pushing a paper on that in any academic environment that is not christian.


Edited by GilbertC06 (12/11/13 10:39 PM)


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Offlineandrewmurray86
Θεολογος
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Registered: 02/05/13
Posts: 1,120
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Last seen: 6 years, 1 month
Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: GilbertC06]
    #19264240 - 12/12/13 04:05 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Don't recall saying they did.
Please construct arguments that follow discourse.


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: DieCommie] * 1
    #19264267 - 12/12/13 04:29 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Quote:

topdog82 said:

...two things I can say with certainty:
1) I dont know shit. All of the posters on this thread don't know shit. Nobody of the 7 billion people on the planet know shit. Noone knows shit





Thats a cop-out.  People do "know shit".  Hiding in possibilities in spite of probabilities is poor position to take.





Subjectively we believe we know things.  That's about the most you can say ultimately.  Without having full knowledge we really don't what anything is for sure.

For the sake of discussions like this, which are completely subjective we can claim to know things.  Like, if a car hits me at 60 mph i'll sustain damage to my body.  But ultimately that's assuming we are not dreaming the event.

So now we can carry on. :lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: TheOtherAdamSmith]
    #19264273 - 12/12/13 04:32 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

TheOtherAdamSmith said:
I'm writing my thesis on depression, some of this research is done by real academics. Not surprising when you think of it. The idea that we have a purpose in life gives us drive. It's probably why we evolved it.

Choosing atheism means ignoring a tool we've evolved to live longer. We can't possibly know if there is a divine or higher order of things. I'm quite willing to convince myself that there is though if it means being happier and living longer. In fact, I already have and it works great. The key is just ignoring any of the religious dogma if it doesn't seem right and peaceful to you.

Like the Buddha said, "anything I say that doesn't make sense to you, just ignore."

Paraphrasing but something like that.





Except that depression seems to have a purpose in human/cultural evolution.  But individually I can see how you would feel that way.  You may however not "be all that you can be" :lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflinePsychedelicjournal
John Human
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/23/13
Posts: 157
Last seen: 8 years, 8 months
Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Icelander]
    #19264508 - 12/12/13 06:54 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Atheism is not the only rational position. Atheism rejects any notion of spirituality and third party science. Most atheist are just dick jockeys for other atheist and most atheist dont understand that atheism is still a belief system. The fact of the matter is that some of the greatest minds that have ever blessed this planet believe in something out there that is much higher then us. I personally don't believe in "God" in the sense of any religious views of god. BUt i do believe that there is something out there that has a much higher form then i. As well as something out there that could have designed and created our universe. It is highly rational and highly logical to believe that there was something that created our universe.


--------------------
“I think of going to the grave without having a psychedelic experience like going to the grave without ever having sex. It means that you never figured out what it is all about. The mystery is in the body and the way the body works itself into nature.”
– Terence McKenna


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Psychedelicjournal] * 1
    #19264525 - 12/12/13 07:03 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Atheists do not claim there is no god. :monkeydance:  They say there is no compelling evidence for a god so they don't believe there is one.  Get it right. :haha:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflinePsychedelicjournal
John Human
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/23/13
Posts: 157
Last seen: 8 years, 8 months
Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Icelander]
    #19264551 - 12/12/13 07:17 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Certain Atheist believe that there is not enough compelling evidence for a god. However, Atheism is defined as:

a disbelief in the existence of deity

So Atheism is the lack of believe in a deity. May it be from not enough evidence or personal reasons. The problem with taking a stand with any thing is that you start to reject anything that goes against your belief.

Perhaps look up the definition of the word Atheism?


--------------------
“I think of going to the grave without having a psychedelic experience like going to the grave without ever having sex. It means that you never figured out what it is all about. The mystery is in the body and the way the body works itself into nature.”
– Terence McKenna


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InvisibleWhite Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Psychedelicjournal]
    #19264626 - 12/12/13 07:46 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

A disbelief is not a belief the same way that a disability is not an ability.


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OfflinePsychedelicjournal
John Human
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Registered: 10/23/13
Posts: 157
Last seen: 8 years, 8 months
Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: White Beard]
    #19264661 - 12/12/13 07:57 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Atheism is still part of your personal belief system. Just as much as you believe that the sky is blue or whatever else you believe in. The faster atheist get off their high horses and realize that they BELIEVE there is no god. The faster they will come to realize that atheism is a belief. You have fundamentalist atheist out there who reject any notion of any evidence of anything that is not the status quo of science.


--------------------
“I think of going to the grave without having a psychedelic experience like going to the grave without ever having sex. It means that you never figured out what it is all about. The mystery is in the body and the way the body works itself into nature.”
– Terence McKenna


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Psychedelicjournal]
    #19264683 - 12/12/13 08:04 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Psychedelicjournal said:
Certain Atheist believe that there is not enough compelling evidence for a god. However, Atheism is defined as:

a disbelief in the existence of deity

So Atheism is the lack of believe in a deity. May it be from not enough evidence or personal reasons. The problem with taking a stand with any thing is that you start to reject anything that goes against your belief.

Perhaps look up the definition of the word Atheism?





What?  I said, they are not claiming there is no fucking god. They are stating disbelief in the claims that there is one.  It's a subtle (to some) but important distinction.

Of course atheism is a belief. So what?  IMO believing in some things makes more sense than others.  :wink:

And any stand they are taking is based on evidence imo. Give them some for the existence of a god and they change their beliefs.  It's a pretty great way to go through life I would think.


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InvisibleWhite Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Psychedelicjournal]
    #19264691 - 12/12/13 08:07 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I don't have a list of things I don't believe in in my belief system. There's infinity more possible things that could exist than do exist, so it would be impossible to actively think of all the things I don't believe in.

Quote:

fundamentalist atheist


There's no such thing as fundamental atheism, as there is no fundamentals to go back to, such as a bible, or other book.


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OfflineFronnis
I'm a teapot

Registered: 04/11/11
Posts: 1,033
Last seen: 3 months, 11 days
Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Psychedelicjournal]
    #19264697 - 12/12/13 08:08 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Psychedelicjournal said:
It is highly rational and highly logical to believe that there was something that created our universe.



For the universe how it is now, sure: the Big Bang.
Resulting to an answer like a "higher power" did it just leads to more questions. If the natural process of the universe cannot be attributed to just it's own nature, how does arguing for some sort of "power" make any more sense?


--------------------


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Icelander]
    #19264898 - 12/12/13 09:06 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

DieCommie said:
Quote:

topdog82 said:

...two things I can say with certainty:
1) I dont know shit. All of the posters on this thread don't know shit. Nobody of the 7 billion people on the planet know shit. Noone knows shit





Thats a cop-out.  People do "know shit".  Hiding in possibilities in spite of probabilities is poor position to take.





Subjectively we believe we know things.  That's about the most you can say ultimately.  Without having full knowledge we really don't what anything is for sure.





It doesnt matter that we don't know for sure.  Considering probabilities bring wisdom, considering possibilities leads to ignorance.


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: DieCommie]
    #19264927 - 12/12/13 09:14 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I generally agree. :thumbup:  But I continue to remind myself that ultimately I don't know.  Keeps me humble and totally loveable. :evil:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflinePsychedelicjournal
John Human
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/23/13
Posts: 157
Last seen: 8 years, 8 months
Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: DieCommie]
    #19264975 - 12/12/13 09:33 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

DieCommie said:
Quote:

topdog82 said:

...two things I can say with certainty:
1) I dont know shit. All of the posters on this thread don't know shit. Nobody of the 7 billion people on the planet know shit. Noone knows shit





Thats a cop-out.  People do "know shit".  Hiding in possibilities in spite of probabilities is poor position to take.





Subjectively we believe we know things.  That's about the most you can say ultimately.  Without having full knowledge we really don't what anything is for sure.





It doesnt matter that we don't know for sure.  Considering probabilities bring wisdom, considering possibilities leads to ignorance.




It is highly probable that something created our universe. If you ever get a chance read the Book "Physics of the impossible" by Michio Kaku. He is a reknown scientist who co founded the super string theory. He speaks of how an advance civilization could create universes to fuel their technology. This is highly plausible and highly probable seeing as the universe is some 13.4 billion years old and we are not the first civilization to come to be (this of course is speculation but hey, we are speculating regardless). Look at what we can do with our technology. Now imagine a civilization that had a thousand year head start with science and technology. Hell imagine a civilization that had a million or billion year head start. Their understanding, comprehension, science, and technology would literally look like magic to us. Who is to say they couldn't create our universe. or any other universe. Hell, who is to say in a thousand years WE are not creating universes. To say or to believe in something definitive is just pointless and highly irrational.

FOr me personally, i believe that something could have created our universe. I also believe that it could have very well have been nothing and we are just a product of a random event. Ether or, i am here now and nothing is going to change that.


--------------------
“I think of going to the grave without having a psychedelic experience like going to the grave without ever having sex. It means that you never figured out what it is all about. The mystery is in the body and the way the body works itself into nature.”
– Terence McKenna


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Invisiblehmmn


Registered: 01/09/13
Posts: 372
Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: TheOtherAdamSmith]
    #19265333 - 12/12/13 11:28 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

TheOtherAdamSmith said:
Like the Buddha said, "anything I say that doesn't make sense to you, just ignore."






I don't think the Buddha ever said that, man.  Could you find a source?


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: hmmn]
    #19265375 - 12/12/13 11:38 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

hmmn said:
Quote:

TheOtherAdamSmith said:
Like the Buddha said, "anything I say that doesn't make sense to you, just ignore."






I don't think the Buddha ever said that, man.  Could you find a source?





Even if he did, thats no reason to embrace the saying.  Ignoring things that dont make sense too you is embracing ignorance and capitulating to confirmation bias.  Wisdom and knowledge come from doing the complete opposite, they come from not ignoring things that dont make sense.


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InvisibleWhite Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: DieCommie]
    #19265800 - 12/12/13 01:22 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I believe the quote TheOtherAdamSmith was referring to was:

"O monks and wise men, just as a goldsmith would test his gold by burning, cutting and rubbing it, so must you examine my words and accept them, not merely out of reverence for me."


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