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InvisibleRoger Wilco
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Registered: 06/08/13
Posts: 970
Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: woaronun]
    #19241222 - 12/07/13 02:30 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

We cannot rely on the simplistic notions of reality that can be derived from connotation. Archetype does not exist in reality. We must strive to see the trees from the forest and get away from generalization. In measuring reality through absolutes, generalizations, archetypes, we "don't know shit". However in measuring reality through our senses, our sight, smell, taste, tactility, etc. We can know shit enough to tangibly interact with it and improve our lives. We can know shit enough to compost it and turn it into food and mushrooms. We know shit well enough to put it through a septic and keep ourselves safe.

If we don't know shit, then how did RR make those videos for everyone to lap up? He learned some shit.

How did Stamets describe new species and write such successful books? He learned some shit.

Using your senses dynamically, learning from mistakes, you can learn some shit!

Please do not make he mistake of assuming we all fit into the "useless" archetype. Some people actually try, because they assume the world is knowable. Some people that try, actually succeed. Persistence of will is as important or more important than: skill, intelligence, and/or finance.


OK. So Apparently "Ism" can connotate action. I must warn, that most often in philosophical conversations Ism does not connotate action, but connotates categorization and archetype.

-ism
a suffix appearing in loanwords from Greek, where it was used to form action nouns from verbs ( baptism );  on this model, used as a productive suffix in the formation of nouns denoting action or practice, state or condition, principles, doctrines, a usage or characteristic, devotion or adherence, etc. ( criticism; barbarism; Darwinism; despotism; plagiarism; realism; witticism; intellectualism )

From this definition we see that MOST usage fits into the latter category. All of the latter isms do not apply to a rational system of thought, because they imply and require doctrine, or rather, are doctrine.

Although being pragmatic has its place, it is not absolute. One should not be pragmatic whilst getting mugged and being punched in the face.

Perhaps empiricism is a method to teach people to use their senses. However, those that really use their senses are NOT using "empiricism"

Theory may be used to hone skills and talents. I do not think that theory is used necessarily used in the employment of talent. Theory is not likely to be used in physical endeavors. We live in a physical world, and thus our philosophy must be able to adapt to that world.

The only thing constant is change.

Antiismism :thumbup: Is my philosophy.


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OfflineGilbertC06
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Registered: 01/29/13
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: topdog82]
    #19253306 - 12/09/13 11:47 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

topdog82 said:
the only rational position is that we don't know shit




Which is exactly what Atheism is.


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OfflineDirtyTomFlint
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: GilbertC06]
    #19253321 - 12/09/13 11:52 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I like your break down of the term 'atheist'. I agree with it.


--------------------




Know Your Body, Know Your Mind, Know Your Substance, Know Your Source


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Offlinewoaronun
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: GilbertC06]
    #19253707 - 12/10/13 02:12 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

GilbertC06 said:
Quote:

topdog82 said:
the only rational position is that we don't know shit




Which is exactly what Atheism is.


Not really. In terms of answering the question "is there a god or divine power?" this position is agnosticism. Atheism is when you're convinced that the world exists without anything divine, which is just as impossible to prove or unprove as theism is.


--------------------
~notice your next breath~


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OfflineGilbertC06
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: woaronun] * 1
    #19253711 - 12/10/13 02:14 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

woaronun said:
Quote:

GilbertC06 said:
Quote:

topdog82 said:
the only rational position is that we don't know shit




Which is exactly what Atheism is.


Not really. In terms of answering the question "is there a god or divine power?" this position is agnosticism. Atheism is when you're convinced that the world exists without anything divine, which is just as impossible to prove or unprove as theism is.





And this is why this thread is a 10000 pages long.

You don't know the terms. Go look them up. I'm tired posting them.

http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Agnostic_atheism


Edited by GilbertC06 (12/10/13 02:16 AM)


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Offlinewoaronun
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: GilbertC06]
    #19253871 - 12/10/13 04:04 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

There's no need to be condescending, I know the terms. Doesn't change what I said before: the postition that "we don't know shit" is agnosticism, in a pretty literal way.


--------------------
~notice your next breath~


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Offlineandrewmurray86
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: woaronun]
    #19253912 - 12/10/13 04:43 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Atheism is far too simple to be true, if there was nothing then how could we figure that out? Modernism and relativism, 2 ideals most atheists cling to are not compatible with each other at a philosophical level.

Atheism is not a rational position, just a position. The constraints of modernism are fantastic when looking at things in a laboratory environment. Biology and similar sciences are great places for the scientific method that developed from modernism and the renaissance. It is fairly limited and often hinders the explorations of the Greek  Ψυχη or psyche/soul in English.

To reject or claim that something is not real or measurable because it isn't physically tangible is a sad and very (new yet) outdated position.

That sort of logic can argue that global warming wasn't real in the 1800's because we didn't see it, nor could it be measured at the time.


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Offlineabsols
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Registered: 11/10/13
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: woaronun]
    #19253915 - 12/10/13 04:44 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

woaronun said:
There's no need to be condescending, I know the terms. Doesn't change what I said before: the postition that "we don't know shit" is agnosticism, in a pretty literal way.




of course.. the theist he is would jump at you to use any free individual conscious mean to force the statement of how you are not who means, it is your brain condition in what it can get from being through group divisions programmed to mean perceiving being limited ... while him of kourse  see the big picture be kause he is through god the one all ways.. the one no possible any other not even relative ly ..  :god2:

like when you say I don't know, it is wrong, because then it means that you are free conscious ... which is forbidden.. you must be limited to what you are forced to believe .. otherwise how he is gonna prove being superior through god powers ?? you must be inferior to him because he is through powers while you say of yourself life .. didn't make the effort to join submissions of powers obligations and prayers ... you should be inferior as positive living but also you must be easily forced to shut down so any believer can enjoy being superior to all others humans  :cheers:


Edited by absols (12/10/13 04:59 AM)


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Offlineabsols
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: absols]
    #19253959 - 12/10/13 05:18 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

atheism is not to rational position, it is to existential fact of being, being free anyway, it is the sense opposed to monotheism as an experience of pluralism reality

a lot of scientist are religious or simple believers in god .. It looks weird how who define atheists are now religious people
that is why they don't know what an atheist is

any atheist is what don't want god, or any power to control him nor being through anyone else .. atheist is what accept to be the little he is constant being free about when it is then being him only ...

of course an atheist is who wont say it that loud, because he knows that a lot of else powers could show up anytime so it is better to keep protecting its freedom out of else powerful perspectives, atheist is a smart human conscious being

agnostic is who is more free then being, atheist mean to be free, agnostic mean to free himself

like atheist can be free through physical realms, he can enjoy his physical achievements .. like also what atheists can be gays like recognizing animals conditions as being positive existence base for individuals life 

but I think no true agnostic can be gay.. agnostic is what don't see himself physically .. that is why he is agnostic in fact .. so cant but see anything through its positive free source ..

it is a lame how theists don't want to believe that people exist

while atheists understand where theists come from and what they really want much better, powers over weak conscious life


Edited by absols (12/10/13 05:23 AM)


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OfflineGilbertC06
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Registered: 01/29/13
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: woaronun]
    #19257789 - 12/10/13 09:33 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

woaronun said:
There's no need to be condescending, I know the terms. Doesn't change what I said before: the postition that "we don't know shit" is agnosticism, in a pretty literal way.




Nope. The fact that you keep insisting that is an obvious sign that you do not know the terms.

Hint: everyone is honestly agnostic. No one actually knows. But this thread is talking about theism and atheism. you are either a theist or an atheist. Everyone still answers that question even if they don't think they do. And being an atheist is more logical than being a theist in a world where everyone does not know for sure because an atheist doesn't buy into any claim while a theist does.


Edited by GilbertC06 (12/10/13 09:38 PM)


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Offlinewoaronun
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: GilbertC06]
    #19258460 - 12/11/13 01:18 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

So by your definition agnosticism is not a conscious position, but something you attribute to everyone?


--------------------
~notice your next breath~


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OfflineIcyus
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: woaronun]
    #19258469 - 12/11/13 01:22 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Basicly... if you believe anything at all.. or are a complete idiot believing in what you know is false.. you should look up DMT and set things right... not suggesting this in any way though...


--------------------
And thus begins the  reverse-fusing of our one-dimentional understanding, and adds ever-expanding perspectives, in depth and number; splitting our perception, and in so doing, seemingly irrationally, creates yet more one-ness, with all that ever was, is and will ever be, streching across the infinite, inunderstood concept of everything, percievable and not.


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: GilbertC06]
    #19259668 - 12/11/13 11:21 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I would just like to clarify:

Atheism is the contention that there definitely is no God.

Agnosticism is the position that we don't know shit.


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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InvisibleWhite Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #19259686 - 12/11/13 11:28 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Wrong, this has been discussed in this thread way too many times. Atheism is a lack of belief in god. Atheism is not a belief.

The problem with this thread is that it's way too long so noobs won't bother to read through it all, and then just post the same thing on top of the pile. Can someone please lock this thread?


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OfflineGilbertC06
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Registered: 01/29/13
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #19260162 - 12/11/13 01:24 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
I would just like to clarify:

Atheism is the contention that there definitely is no God.

Agnosticism is the position that we don't know shit.




Wrong. Atheism does not say there is no god. Look up the fucking up terms. This is ridiculous.


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OfflineGilbertC06
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: woaronun]
    #19260164 - 12/11/13 01:25 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

woaronun said:
So by your definition agnosticism is not a conscious position, but something you attribute to everyone?





Well do you know of any person who absolutely knows for sure everything about the Universe and that you would believe them?


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Offlinewoaronun
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: GilbertC06]
    #19260357 - 12/11/13 02:04 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I know a lot of people who think they do, and it doesn't seem right to put them in one category with people who acknowledge the fact that they don't know things for sure, which, I'll say it another time, is the literal definition of agnosticism :shrug:


--------------------
~notice your next breath~


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: White Beard]
    #19260408 - 12/11/13 02:13 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

from Merriam-Webster:

Atheism, n.  1.  A disbelief in the existence of deity.
            2.  The doctrine that there is no deity.

I mean, wtf here?

So there, I have taken the advice to look it up.  Perhaps I was the only one here who has done so?

Btw, a disbelief is a belief...


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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InvisibleWhite Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #19260467 - 12/11/13 02:24 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
Btw, a disbelief is a belief...




No it isn't. A disbelief is a lack of belief.

For example:

A disability isn't an ability. It's a lack of an ability.
Disharmony isn't harmony, it's a lack of harmony.
etc.


Edited by White Beard (12/11/13 02:28 PM)


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: White Beard]
    #19260542 - 12/11/13 02:33 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Okay.

From Merriam-Webster:

Disbelief, n.  The act of disbelieving:  mental rejection of something as untrue. (italics mine)

To reject an idea and therefore really to state that it is is untrue is a proposition.  Not mere abstention. I think we've gotten into a semantic debate here, but atheism is not merely a lack of participation in a belief in deity.  It is widely accepted to be an assertion that you think there is no God.


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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