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Invisibleteknix
π“‚€βŸπ“…’π“π“…ƒπ“Š°π“‰‘ 𓁼𓆗⨻
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Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 11,953
Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: GilbertC06]
    #17787040 - 02/12/13 01:09 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Yah, your providing evidence for my point earlier that rights are within abilities ultimately, which you said was wrong.


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: teknix]
    #17787049 - 02/12/13 01:12 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:


Feel sad and depressed about all the negative shit in the world.


or



Realize even if bad things happen. Even if laws are completely broken and unjust.

You can realize a fairly decent life for yourself. Of course bad shit will still happen. Bad shit will happen to you. Hopefully not anything as horrible as those stated above. But just lead a happy life. Even if there is no God. Even if people die and can't do anything about it. Lead a happy and fulfilling life.


Choose one.





Now I'll offer you a false dichotomy in turn: which more suits your demeanor?

Tits

or

GTFO

Choose one.


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OfflineGilbertC06
Omnipotent to a fault.


Registered: 01/29/13
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: teknix]
    #17787065 - 02/12/13 01:16 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Yah, your providing evidence for my point earlier that rights are within abilities ultimately, which you said was wrong.





No.


I'm superior to the parasite in ability/technology.

He still had a right.


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: GilbertC06]
    #17787070 - 02/12/13 01:17 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Not really. He definitely doesn't now that you had him executed.

:shrug:


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Invisibleteknix
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Posts: 11,953
Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: teknix]
    #17787074 - 02/12/13 01:18 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

A rights ability is only insofar as it works.


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OfflineSeaShrooms
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: GilbertC06]
    #17787075 - 02/12/13 01:18 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Do you have a right to practice your lifestyle in peace, regardless of others preferences, or do I have to be armed and defend that right, in your system.


--------------------
The life of a condemned soul is hatred.


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: SeaShrooms]
    #17787079 - 02/12/13 01:21 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

It depends if your a lion with bitches or not.


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Offlineclam_dude
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Mr Person]
    #17788458 - 02/12/13 10:19 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Mr Person said:
I apologize.  I did have that backwards regarding what you said about atheism being a subset of agnosticism.  Still I think that trying to deny the mutual exclusivity of atheism and agnosticism is disingenuous.  Richard Dawkins describes it as "unweildy" to make such a distinction, but not making it only confuses what is otherwise a clear and useful dichotomy.  Atheists use that confusion to be just as dogmatic as theists without having to commit fully to their indefensible opinions. 

While I may privately agree that the existence of god seems highly unlikely, as an agnostic I would never make a thread like this or make the sorts of declarative arguments you have made here.  You say you don't actively disbelieve in the existence of god but then you turn around and argue against the existence of god, which seems very hypocritical. 

Save the word atheist for those who 100% don't believe in god.  If you are at all unsure, then leave it at that.  Own it and accept that you are agnostic.  People say we agnostics are the wishy washy ones but at least we can commit to being unsure instead of this weird hybrid belief you seem to be peddling.




Nobody knows anything with 100% certainty. But only when it comes down to this issue do people bust our balls and say "well you can't know for sure"  Any time I say I know anything, you should be busting my balls and saying i should be agnostic because I can't really know. 

Again, you say I'm arguing against the existence of god.  That's not the case.  There is no reason to believe in god.  Therefore I'm arguing that it's irrational to believe in god.

Would you say you are an atoothfairyest?  Or would you say you're agnostic about the existence of the tooth fairy?  Personally, I'm both agnostic, and I'm an atoothfairyest, because I personally don't believe it to exist. 

We can't disprove the existence of anything.  But that doesn't mean there is the slightest reason to believe it exists. Apply the same logic to god.

You say that atheists are dogmatic.  Maybe you mean they are pushy, I'll accept that. But dogmatic implies appealing to an absolute authority  without question (yes, religions do that).  Atheists don't appeal to any absolute authority.  This is why atheism and religion are not two sides of the same coin as you would like to believe.


--------------------
"I would like to thank god for making me an atheist" - Ricky Gervais


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OfflineSeaShrooms
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: clam_dude]
    #17788714 - 02/12/13 11:22 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

I feel that the atheist philosophy, as expressed here, is infact very much dogmatic, to actually discuss something like the right of might, as if life had no value, shows the impact of the nihilistic philosophy.


:manofapproval:


--------------------
The life of a condemned soul is hatred.


Edited by SeaShrooms (02/12/13 11:23 AM)


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OfflineSeaShrooms
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: teknix]
    #17788729 - 02/12/13 11:26 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
It depends if your a lion with bitches or not.





So in other words yes, I must,

4. Choose ye an island!

5. Fortify it!

6. Dung it about with enginery of war!

7. I will give you a war-engine.

8. With it ye shall smite the peoples; and none shall stand before you.

9. Lurk! Withdraw! Upon them! this is the Law of the Battle of Conquest: thus shall my worship be about my secret house.

Well i for one do not interpret this to mean that the law of conquest is in fact gods law, and the only true interpretation of Liber Al Vel Legis is your own.


--------------------
The life of a condemned soul is hatred.


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Offlineclam_dude
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: SeaShrooms]
    #17788749 - 02/12/13 11:31 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

SeaShrooms said:
I feel that the atheist philosophy, as expressed here, is infact very much dogmatic, to actually discuss something like the right of might, as if life had no value, shows the impact of the nihilistic philosophy.
:manofapproval:




And how is it dogmatic? That's a pretty s loaded word.  If you make such accusations, you better back it up.

Where did I talk about, let alone endorse, the idea of right equals might?  And who said anything about life not having value? (I assume you're addressing me - i didn't read the last few pages of the thread for obvious reasons)

Look up the word "dogmatic," and tell me if you think it still applies and why.


--------------------
"I would like to thank god for making me an atheist" - Ricky Gervais


Edited by clam_dude (02/12/13 11:32 AM)


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OfflineSeaShrooms
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: clam_dude]
    #17788835 - 02/12/13 11:46 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

My apologies that particular comment was meant towards the conversation in its entirety, however. Atheism is a profound dogma that encourages the system of beliefs known as ennui.

Dogma is the official system of belief or doctrine held by a religion, or a particular group or organization.[1] It serves as part of the primary basis of an ideology or belief system, and it cannot be changed or discarded without affecting the very system's paradigm, or the ideology itself. They can refer to acceptable opinions of philosophers or philosophical schools, public decrees, or issued decisions of political authorities.[2]


--------------------
The life of a condemned soul is hatred.


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Offlineclam_dude
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: SeaShrooms]
    #17788886 - 02/12/13 11:55 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

SeaShrooms said:
My apologies that particular comment was meant towards the conversation in its entirety, however. Atheism is a profound dogma that encourages the system of beliefs known as ennui.

Dogma is the official system of belief or doctrine held by a religion, or a particular group or organization.[1] It serves as part of the primary basis of an ideology or belief system, and it cannot be changed or discarded without affecting the very system's paradigm, or the ideology itself. They can refer to acceptable opinions of philosophers or philosophical schools, public decrees, or issued decisions of political authorities.[2]




Atheism is not an ideology, and I would be reluctant to call it a "belief system." I'm not sure where you got your definition, but I did a quick google search, and all of the definitions I got on the first page associated dogma with appeal to authority.

If you just want to take the definition of "dogma," as something that people believe, then it's dogmatic to believe that apples fall off trees.


--------------------
"I would like to thank god for making me an atheist" - Ricky Gervais


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OfflineSeaShrooms
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: clam_dude]
    #17788899 - 02/12/13 11:56 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

No that would be an observation, the definition I gave is the wiki definition, and it clearly explains how any belief system that you can not view with skepticism, is in fact a religion, at least I see that.


--------------------
The life of a condemned soul is hatred.


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Offlineclam_dude
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: SeaShrooms]
    #17788930 - 02/12/13 12:01 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

SeaShrooms said:
No that would be an observation, the definition I gave is the wiki definition, and it clearly explains how any belief system that you can not view with skepticism, is in fact a religion, at least I see that.




Atheism is not a belief system it's a lack of a belief system.  I was going to say that I'm potentially skeptical of atheism as well.  But it doesn't even make sense to say you're skeptical of a lack of belief.


--------------------
"I would like to thank god for making me an atheist" - Ricky Gervais


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Invisiblesomething super extreme
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: SeaShrooms]
    #17788932 - 02/12/13 12:02 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

How does atheism actively encourage ennui and how did you reach this conclusion?


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Offlineclam_dude
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: clam_dude]
    #17788939 - 02/12/13 12:03 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

SeaShrooms, did you read what I said earlier about atheism being the default position? A baby is an atheist until it is indoctrinated by it's parents.  Even if it doesn't know what atheism is - indeed it doesn't know what god is either.  Therefore it's an atheist.  Just like it's a baby, and doesn't know the word "baby."


--------------------
"I would like to thank god for making me an atheist" - Ricky Gervais


Edited by clam_dude (02/12/13 12:04 PM)


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OfflineSeaShrooms
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: clam_dude]
    #17788964 - 02/12/13 12:08 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Clearly atheism is not the natural state, supernatural beliefs are the realm of the under-educated and simple minded.

Atheism is clearly a belief system, the belief in a number of things is implied by the belief that there is no supreme being or beings that exist in a higher plane than man, and the implications of those beliefs is the slippery slope of nihilism which in all but the most erudite of minds, results in the sense of ennui.

You can be the contrarian all you want, or you can actually engage the debate on its own terms.


--------------------
The life of a condemned soul is hatred.


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Offlineclam_dude
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: SeaShrooms]
    #17789012 - 02/12/13 12:16 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

SeaShrooms said:
Clearly atheism is not the natural state, supernatural beliefs are the realm of the under-educated and simple minded.

Atheism is clearly a belief system, the belief in a number of things is implied by the belief that there is no supreme being or beings that exist in a higher plane than man, and the implications of those beliefs is the slippery slope of nihilism which in all but the most erudite of minds, results in the sense of ennui.

You can be the contrarian all you want, or you can actually engage the debate on its own terms.




I'm not a contrarian.  You keep making baseless claims about me.  Yes, supernatural beliefs are part of humanity.  But a person has to be old enough to understand the concept of god before he/she can believe in it.  My point was merely that babies, because they are too young to even understand the concept of god, are by default, atheists.

There are no other implications, as you claim.  Tell me, what else do atheists have in common, other then their lack of belief in god?


Like I keep saying, atheism is a lack of a belief, nothing more.


--------------------
"I would like to thank god for making me an atheist" - Ricky Gervais


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OfflineSeaShrooms
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: clam_dude]
    #17789032 - 02/12/13 12:19 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

First and foremost, that there is a part of the brain that searches for a higher power is well documented, for something like the last 40 years, I would be surprised if you haven't encountered this fact in your readings, on this, I will say no more.

Atheism itself by definition imparts no other beliefs, but in practice becomes the center, or dogma, of entire belief systems and lifestyles, this again, I think is common sense really.


--------------------
The life of a condemned soul is hatred.


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