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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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OfflineGilbertC06
Omnipotent to a fault.


Registered: 01/29/13
Posts: 597
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: teknix]
    #17786876 - 02/12/13 12:24 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
And how do they have these rights? They are things within their ability that they claim.

The lion without a pride is shit out of luck, because he can't claim or enforce shit, AND no one else is gonna do it for him.

So the moral of the story is to beat some ass, get a bunch of money, take out your competitors, then send all your bitches to work and get on the front cover of Nat Geo as King Pimpin?




Well the lion pretty much wins a fight over the old lion. Takes his throne. yadda yadda yadda Keep in mind that humans had no hand in this. So there goes your argument.

And your last point. Yup. That's pretty much how it works. Even in Human society that logic still prevails most of the time.

Natural law.


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OfflineGilbertC06
Omnipotent to a fault.


Registered: 01/29/13
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: teknix]
    #17786884 - 02/12/13 12:26 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Then define life? What about a nematode living in your colon?

Does sentience remain silent in life?






Yeah. That's why biology (The study of LIVING organisms) includes micro organisms and other NON sentient, NON speaking, organisms.


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: GilbertC06]
    #17786893 - 02/12/13 12:31 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

That would hold true to the perspective of those who follow the philosophy of the lion.

What about the rest?


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OfflineSeaShrooms
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: GilbertC06]
    #17786894 - 02/12/13 12:31 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Life is a randomly occurring combination of amino acids and the proteins they eventually form that gains the strange ability to replicate itself, it happened one time on this planet, and may not of happened anywhere else.


--------------------
The life of a condemned soul is hatred.


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OfflineGilbertC06
Omnipotent to a fault.


Registered: 01/29/13
Posts: 597
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: teknix]
    #17786908 - 02/12/13 12:33 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
That would hold true to the perspective of those who follow the philosophy of the lion.

What about the rest?




The rest just aren't as successful in terms of wealth and breeding.

I'm all for people living out different lives and finding success and accomplishment other ways.

But that doesn't rule out nature's influence on humans.


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: GilbertC06]
    #17786909 - 02/12/13 12:34 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

GilbertC06 said:
Quote:

teknix said:
Then define life? What about a nematode living in your colon?

Does sentience remain silent in life?






Yeah. That's why biology (The study of LIVING organisms) includes micro organisms and other NON sentient, NON speaking, organisms.




Biology doesn't really give them rights.

:lol:


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: GilbertC06]
    #17786920 - 02/12/13 12:36 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

GilbertC06 said:
Quote:

teknix said:
That would hold true to the perspective of those who follow the philosophy of the lion.

What about the rest?




The rest just aren't as successful in terms of wealth and breeding.

I'm all for people living out different lives and finding success and accomplishment other ways.

But that doesn't rule out nature's influence on humans.




You have to agree that it is a fitting definition of rights.


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OfflineGilbertC06
Omnipotent to a fault.


Registered: 01/29/13
Posts: 597
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: teknix]
    #17786922 - 02/12/13 12:36 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Quote:

GilbertC06 said:
Quote:

teknix said:
Then define life? What about a nematode living in your colon?

Does sentience remain silent in life?






Yeah. That's why biology (The study of LIVING organisms) includes micro organisms and other NON sentient, NON speaking, organisms.




Biology doesn't really give them rights.

:lol:




... never said it did. Biology is a man made term for the STUDY of life. It doesn't give anyone rights....


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OfflineGilbertC06
Omnipotent to a fault.


Registered: 01/29/13
Posts: 597
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: teknix]
    #17786925 - 02/12/13 12:37 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Quote:

GilbertC06 said:
Quote:

teknix said:
That would hold true to the perspective of those who follow the philosophy of the lion.

What about the rest?




The rest just aren't as successful in terms of wealth and breeding.

I'm all for people living out different lives and finding success and accomplishment other ways.

But that doesn't rule out nature's influence on humans.




You have to agree that it is a fitting definition of rights.




? You mean all the parts that you actually agreed with me?


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Invisibleteknix
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Posts: 11,953
Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: GilbertC06]
    #17786930 - 02/12/13 12:38 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

So then . . . whats the point as far as life and rights are concerned?

Sentience is the constituent.


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OfflineGilbertC06
Omnipotent to a fault.


Registered: 01/29/13
Posts: 597
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: teknix]
    #17786950 - 02/12/13 12:46 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
So then . . . whats the point as far as life and rights are concerned?

Sentience is the constituent.




Everything has rights.

Sentience is just an advantage some organisms have.

Some organisms have more power (advantages) than others.

That's it.


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InvisibleMr Person
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: clam_dude]
    #17786962 - 02/12/13 12:49 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

clam_dude said:

First of all, I would appreciate it if you don't misrepresent what I have said.  Nowhere did I say that all agnostics are atheists by default.  I said the two are not mutually exclusive.  I said that atheism is (usually) a subset of agnosticism.  Not the other way around. 

As for me defining myself by my own interpretation - i use the word atheist because it is understood to mean a certain thing at this moment in history.  Like I already said, the most prominent atheists in the world are agnostic as well.  So I'm not defining the word how I want to.  If people generally took it to mean a disbelief in god, i wouldn't use the word. 

But to clarify, I believe that "god," as I've heard it defined, is highly unlikely.  That's why I call myself an atheist, not an agnostic.




I apologize.  I did have that backwards regarding what you said about atheism being a subset of agnosticism.  Still I think that trying to deny the mutual exclusivity of atheism and agnosticism is disingenuous.  Richard Dawkins describes it as "unweildy" to make such a distinction, but not making it only confuses what is otherwise a clear and useful dichotomy.  Atheists use that confusion to be just as dogmatic as theists without having to commit fully to their indefensible opinions. 

While I may privately agree that the existence of god seems highly unlikely, as an agnostic I would never make a thread like this or make the sorts of declarative arguments you have made here.  You say you don't actively disbelieve in the existence of god but then you turn around and argue against the existence of god, which seems very hypocritical. 

Save the word atheist for those who 100% don't believe in god.  If you are at all unsure, then leave it at that.  Own it and accept that you are agnostic.  People say we agnostics are the wishy washy ones but at least we can commit to being unsure instead of this weird hybrid belief you seem to be peddling.


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: GilbertC06]
    #17786963 - 02/12/13 12:49 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

GilbertC06 said:
Quote:

teknix said:
Quote:

GilbertC06 said:
Quote:

teknix said:
That would hold true to the perspective of those who follow the philosophy of the lion.

What about the rest?




The rest just aren't as successful in terms of wealth and breeding.

I'm all for people living out different lives and finding success and accomplishment other ways.

But that doesn't rule out nature's influence on humans.




You have to agree that it is a fitting definition of rights.




? You mean all the parts that you actually agreed with me?




I'm not agreeing or disagreeing.

:tongue:


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Invisibleteknix
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Posts: 11,953
Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: GilbertC06]
    #17786973 - 02/12/13 12:50 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

GilbertC06 said:
Quote:

teknix said:
So then . . . whats the point as far as life and rights are concerned?

Sentience is the constituent.




Everything has rights.

Sentience is just an advantage some organisms have.

Some organisms have more power (advantages) than others.

That's it.




Well, I don't agree that everything has rights, like you want to let wierd shit live inside of you and accumulate until you die?

A parasite is a parasite. It's conflicting with your rights.


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OfflineGilbertC06
Omnipotent to a fault.


Registered: 01/29/13
Posts: 597
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: teknix]
    #17786985 - 02/12/13 12:53 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Quote:

GilbertC06 said:
Quote:

teknix said:
So then . . . whats the point as far as life and rights are concerned?

Sentience is the constituent.




Everything has rights.

Sentience is just an advantage some organisms have.

Some organisms have more power (advantages) than others.

That's it.




Well, I don't agree that everything has rights, like you want to let wierd shit live inside of you and accumulate until you die?

A parasite is a parasite. It's conflicting with your rights.




Your logic is so screwed up.

Yes a parasite has a right to live. And the way it lives is inside bodies. But I have the right to kill it. I have the right to prevent it.

Are you starting to understand how life works now?


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: GilbertC06]
    #17786994 - 02/12/13 12:55 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Lawl, then it doesn't have any right to life inside of you in reality, but how you gonna squish it? It's right is limited to the rights you give it.

If it said pls don't kill me, I'll leave, would you still kill it?


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OfflineGilbertC06
Omnipotent to a fault.


Registered: 01/29/13
Posts: 597
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: teknix]
    #17787005 - 02/12/13 12:59 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Lawl, then it doesn't have any right to life inside of you in reality, but how you gonna squish it? It's right is limited to the rights you give it.

If it said pls don't kill me, I'll leave, would you still kill it?




I don't limit it's rights. It's rights are not effected. It practiced it's rights and by killing it I practice mine. He physically dies.

If it said please don't kill me, I'd kill it.

Or

Take it out of me and have doctors examine it (who will eventually kill it anyway probably).

But honestly I'd pick the first option.


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: GilbertC06]
    #17787020 - 02/12/13 01:02 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

What's the point in rights if they aren't enforced or even respected?

They aren't rights if that is the case and not any sort of consistent moral philosophy.


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: teknix]
    #17787028 - 02/12/13 01:04 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

If you require sentience as a determination for rights it is much more consistent imo.

The world is your petri dish.


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OfflineGilbertC06
Omnipotent to a fault.


Registered: 01/29/13
Posts: 597
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: teknix]
    #17787034 - 02/12/13 01:08 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
What's the point in rights if they aren't enforced or even respected?

They aren't rights if that is the case and not any sort of consistent moral philosophy.





Think about human rights.






Okay, you did for a minute.




You ever see or hear or read about a brutal murder? About a rape. About torture. About stealing. About ANYTHING negative.


Now there are laws. HUMAN man made laws against them. But they still happened.



Now you can either keep rambling on.....

Or do one of the two.


Feel sad and depressed about all the negative shit in the world.


or



Realize even if bad things happen. Even if laws are completely broken and unjust.

You can realize a fairly decent life for yourself. Of course bad shit will still happen. Bad shit will happen to you. Hopefully not anything as horrible as those stated above. But just lead a happy life. Even if there is no God. Even if people die and can't do anything about it. Lead a happy and fulfilling life.


Choose one.


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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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