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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Freedom]
    #28602958 - 12/30/23 05:32 AM (29 days, 8 hours ago)

Quote:

Freedom said:
I think I'm sort in the infant category, gods seem to be beyond me



me too
72 yr old infant!


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Freedom]
    #28603409 - 12/30/23 02:44 PM (28 days, 23 hours ago)

Some of the words I use have multiple meanings such as "sensation" and "perception" but I need to use those words to achieve a continuity of meaning.
I asked Bing to contrast sensation with perception and it gave me this:

Quote:

  • Here are some of the main differences between them:

  • Sensation is the process of detecting physical stimuli from the environment through our sensory receptors, such as the eyes, ears, nose, tongue, and skin. Perception is the process of interpreting and organizing the sensory information in our brain, giving it meaning and context.

  • Sensation is based on the physical properties of the stimuli, such as intensity, frequency, wavelength, and texture. Perception is based on the psychological factors that influence how we perceive the stimuli, such as attention, memory, emotion, and expectation.

  • Sensation is more objective and universal, as it is largely determined by the laws of physics and biology. Perception is more subjective and individual, as it is influenced by our personal experiences, beliefs, and cultures.

  • Sensation and perception are not separate stages, but rather continuous and interactive processes. Sensory information is constantly modified and filtered by our perception, and our perception is constantly updated and refined by our sensation






I happen to agree entirely with these points

while if I ask Google what is "sensation"
I get this shit:

Quote:

Dictionary Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more
sen·sa·tion
/senˈsāSHən/

noun: sensation; plural noun: sensations

1. a physical feeling or perception resulting from something that happens to or comes into contact with the body.    "a burning sensation in the middle of the chest"
the capacity to have physical sensations. "they had lost sensation in one or both forearms"    an inexplicable awareness or impression.        "she had the eerie sensation that she was being watched"
        Similar:  feeling  sense  awareness  consciousness  perception  impression  tickle  tingle  prickle

2. a widespread reaction of interest and excitement.
"his arrest for poisoning caused a sensation"




The dictionary gets the whole thing messed up but Bing is using AI which polls usage, and based upon that comes up with the meanings that I am also accustomed to using.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Nillion] * 2
    #28603481 - 12/30/23 03:39 PM (28 days, 22 hours ago)

letting the Framplex drive your language, you will definitely get a divide by zero error sooner or later.

when that happens to me I blow my stack and restart the whole system restricting words to discreet usage.

Framplexity is fraught with frights!


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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Nillion] * 1
    #28604086 - 12/31/23 03:23 AM (28 days, 10 hours ago)

I like precision in meaning if I need to puzzle through something effectively (like associative memory), but also I consider brainstorming an enjoyable form of play in which the deformation and sound play of words implying alternate meanings is part of the terrain, and I even enjoy the crossover of domains in this type of play (then I get back to strict meanings while puzzling through what just happened).


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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Nillion] * 1
    #28604500 - 12/31/23 11:11 AM (28 days, 2 hours ago)

@nillon, you are prismatic-ally correct those facets of my mind are arranged to convey the same thing - in that way I am like a block of lucite.

@sudly, I am getting sexual oddities as I search for bdsm, what meaning is it you meant?


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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: The Blind Ass] * 1
    #28605419 - 01/01/24 05:11 AM (27 days, 8 hours ago)

some versions of prayer involve insight of associative mind such as Metta meditation: i.e. the last phrase being  "May all beings be well and happy."
It begins with calm.
then "may I be well and happy" establishing an attitude of a safe, healthy, caring self.
then "may my role model be well and happy" establishing positive metta attitude to one's teacher.
then "may my brother be well and happy" establishing metta towards a family member
then "may that guy on the bus be well and happy" extending metta to unfamiliar people
then "may my opponent be well and happy" broadening the net to include people who have been nasty
then "may all beings be well and happy"

last night I only got to "may my family be well and happy" (an extreme short cut not allowing for all the value in the above association power) and my phone buzzed and my daughter who is a mother was sending love to all the family so I emoji'd and fell asleep.

If I stop to think, metta meditation is a prayer for peace, and it works by a contrivance of associating metta with all classes of people and the gut feelings we have for them. This "consolidation of memory" type of meditation does not involve any god other than mind itself, but it has all the features of prayer, spiritual feeling, and connection with something greater than this moment and this self.

The way it works is by introducing the association of some calm and good will into the basic attitudes that we reflexively project in response to perceptions, thoughts, and the presence of others in daily life.

finally I got the right day,
Happy New Years!


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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: The Blind Ass] * 1
    #28605455 - 01/01/24 07:03 AM (27 days, 6 hours ago)

and a hella buncha pain!
realistically


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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Ferdinando] * 1
    #28605531 - 01/01/24 08:38 AM (27 days, 5 hours ago)

Quote:

Ferdinando said:
@redgreenvines you are very good at making people do better thanks



I think it would be better if you did not complement me daily, once a year is more than enough - thanks


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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Freedom] * 2
    #28606849 - 01/02/24 09:56 AM (26 days, 3 hours ago)

I usually go mental when trying to imagine something that space fits in, or how space even exists, but the old yin yang loop saves my imagination,
until I ask "why?"


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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Freedom]
    #28606976 - 01/02/24 11:41 AM (26 days, 2 hours ago)

yes


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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Freedom]
    #28608048 - 01/03/24 06:57 AM (25 days, 6 hours ago)

woah is not a rational position, it's an emotional response to stimuli converging with an elegant twist, like EUREKA.

god(s), on the other hand, is too almighty to inspire this emotion, although when people have the illusion that they have been chosen by god they may have an EUREKA like moment which never leads to anything good.


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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: budmanman]
    #28609154 - 01/04/24 06:35 AM (24 days, 7 hours ago)

seems fishy to me


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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Nillion] * 2
    #28616677 - 01/10/24 05:46 PM (17 days, 20 hours ago)

It is not naive to be frustrated in this domain.

I prefer not to use any words that have too many disputed definitions.
Is there a particular version of god that you think we should all be much more cognizant of?

After making some effort to clarify your use of the term first, if you still find people stubborn or naive you can call that out, but please do not disregard the frustration that the confusing conflation of meanings has garnered for many of us.

I have some very devout good friends (who got religious after university and marriage), but I don't spend much time with them - my lack of tradition is OK for an alien guest dropping by but even a meal gets a bit messy or confusing when the interstellar diplomacy is over.


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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Nillion] * 1
    #28616710 - 01/10/24 06:13 PM (17 days, 19 hours ago)

not sure I gave any advice, but if you have a precise view that is driving you to think others are naive then sharing that precise view could be enlightening.
frustration can be contagious.


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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Nillion]
    #28616757 - 01/10/24 06:57 PM (17 days, 18 hours ago)

you are sharing a more contrite view of why you suggest impatience with vague interpretations of god are naive,
what I think you should share is your interpretation of what god is and why a person not seeing your point must be naive.
so - now I am giving advice:
- please forget the naivete of others and focus on explaining your interpretation of god.


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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Rahz]
    #28617247 - 01/11/24 06:20 AM (17 days, 7 hours ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
I know someone who has a minimalist God belief and I've never disregarded him for it. He's a very rational person but has a sense of the profound which he attributes to God. I agree with Einstein but not in a literal sense, just that the concept of God is drawn to the unknown, to the mysterious nature of our perceptions.



this makes sense
and
this does not lead anyone to calling another person's approach naive
especially because it honors mystery which is the essence of functional naievity

Nillon, consider this please.


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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Nillion]
    #28617381 - 01/11/24 08:40 AM (17 days, 5 hours ago)

OK,
I will assume that you are not comfortable explaining what you believe except that you are comfortable decrying what other people think.

The truth is that all of us are naive about a lot.


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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Freedom]
    #28617417 - 01/11/24 09:35 AM (17 days, 4 hours ago)

in this image just taken of my door handle at the apartment where we are staying, the outdoor half of the door handle appears to have a black form with a squishy clear rubber grip, like some kind of fish lure or child's toy.
but on closer examination, I can see that the handle outside is all black, and the squishy trsanslucent plastic grip is not really there, it is a double reflection via two sheets of glass in the door of the white plastic handle inside, but the appearance is semi transparent as the reflection only partially covers the view of the out door handle.

this may not be clear to everyone at a glance.
I had to sit with the view for a moment to puzzle it together.
Someone else may have different interpretations of the world that this view corroborates, including one in which there is a squishy spiritual side to all things, and this door to a mini patio is symbolic of that universal truth.


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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Svetaketu]
    #28617577 - 01/11/24 12:36 PM (17 days, 1 hour ago)

Einstein was not mapping all kinds of abilities to god as nature (similar to Spinoza's god as nature perhaps) other than how nature is already.
Nature is full of mysteries and totally deserving of study.

it does not make sense to give nature another name, that is just misdirection and to imagine reasons for weather and lightning that are not in nature is also not performing a good service to your neighbors or children.

When there were no other books available, the bible was worth reading, not that it had answers to questions, but still worth keeping for the language stabilizing influence, learning one's letters, etc.


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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Nillion] * 1
    #28617596 - 01/11/24 12:59 PM (17 days, 50 minutes ago)

I do not think it is dubious to revere nature as holy and worth observing.


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