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Offlinelifeiswhatyoumake
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: clam_dude]
    #28626081 - 01/18/24 03:51 PM (9 days, 21 hours ago)

Quote:

clam_dude said:
I can't claim to know there is no god, but I do personally believe there is no god.  I believe this with the same level of certainty that I believe there is no tooth fairy.  I don't like to call myself agnostic about god for the same reason you don't like to call yourself agnostic regarding the tooth fairy.

It seems that the word "atheist" is generally misunderstood.  Over the course of this thread, I have heard that "atheists claim to know that there is no god" countless times. There might be a very small minority of self proclaimed atheists that claim this.  But believe me, the most prominent atheists in the world are agnostic as well (if only as a technicality).  It is those who have not taken the time to understand the atheist position who see it as dogmatic. 


If the word "agnostic" was generally understood to mean someone who does not believe in "    " until they see evidence for it, I would use the word "agnostic."  And of course, that is what agnostic means.  But if society understood it to mean that, then the word "agnostic" would have the same negative connotation as atheism.  Society takes "agnostic" to mean "well ya never know."  That's why you wouldn't feel comfortable (I'm assuming) calling yourself "agnostic" regarding the tooth fairy, even though you are one.  You wouldn't feel comfortable saying "You never know" regarding the tooth fairy, even though you are agnostic about it.  Yet you do feel comfortable saying you "don't believe" in the tooth fairy. 

Now imagine someone coming along and trying to pigeonhole your beliefs - either you label yourself as "agnostic" regarding the tooth fairy, or you have an unreasonable disbelief in the tooth fairy.  That's what it feels like to be an atheist.






I like your comparison between god and the tooth fairy.  However, there is a big difference between them: one apparently created the universe and the other didn't.  Thus, I definitely don't believe in the tooth fairy.  However, I am agnostic with regards to god because if god didn't create the universe then what did?


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Edited by lifeiswhatyoumake (01/18/24 03:52 PM)


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Offlinelifeiswhatyoumake
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28626191 - 01/18/24 05:01 PM (9 days, 20 hours ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
could the universe have created itself, and is it inclined to repeat the show? loopy?




To me, that's just as plausible as a god having created it.


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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: connectedcosmos] * 1
    #28626231 - 01/18/24 05:24 PM (9 days, 20 hours ago)

Seems more even to me.


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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: seagu]
    #28627528 - 01/19/24 05:24 PM (8 days, 20 hours ago)

How can the Christian god exist alongside the Hindu gods, the Greek gods, the Aztec gods, the Muslim god, etc?  They have different after-lifes and stuff, right?


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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: seagu]
    #28628501 - 01/20/24 12:14 PM (8 days, 1 hour ago)

Quote:

seagu said:
Quote:

lifeiswhatyoumake said:
How can the Christian god exist alongside the Hindu gods, the Greek gods, the Aztec gods, the Muslim god, etc?  They have different after-lifes and stuff, right?





There are many elohim(gods). There is only One Elohim(God) that is All Powerful, All Knowing, Present Everywhere at all times, Who Created everything, Who loves us so much that He became a man to die for us to restore us back to Him(Do not most of us go away from Him?) and show us the Way to Life. And Talking with Him is part and parcel of the Christian life.





That's just what Christians believe.
You are aware there are thousands of other religions, right?
The Aztecs, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Greeks don't believe Jesus is son of God.
How can all of these religions be correct if they have different after-lifes?  That would imply overlap that isn't possible with your Christian beliefs, such as Hindu reincarnation, right?


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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28628597 - 01/20/24 01:51 PM (7 days, 23 hours ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
I think the Pope said that Christians can be re-incarnated if they confess.





True, I think he said that like last week, right?


Oh, I just realized something that I somehow overlooked in my earlier response:

seagu, you just said there are many gods.  That goes totally against the Christian belief!  What kind of Christian are you to believe in that?


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Edited by lifeiswhatyoumake (01/20/24 01:52 PM)


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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Asante]
    #28629042 - 01/20/24 06:41 PM (7 days, 19 hours ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
the totality of everything which emerged from one spot, by necessity encompasses all of consciousness.

therefore its one somebody.

therefore, God.




You don't know for sure if the totality of everything emerged from one spot, though.  That's an assumption.


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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: OpenQwerty]
    #28629794 - 01/21/24 12:27 PM (7 days, 1 hour ago)

Quote:

OpenQwerty said:
A "god" is a living being that is eternal (at least: in comparison with humans) and more powerful than us.
So, for example any river is a god, (in the Greek polytheism is traditional to worship the rivers) and we can said that even a star like the sun is somewhat "alive", and so on.




A river is just an area where water generally flows through at a volume larger than a creek. 
The sun is just a big ball of plasma that has nuclear fusion occurring.
These things tend to exist for a longer period of time than humanity due to the laws of physics and biology as we know it.
Rivers aren't more powerful than humans... we can dam them and use their energy for our own needs.
The sun is more powerful than humans... for now.


Quote:

OpenQwerty said:so it's really difficult to said: "he doesn't exist " as well as to said "he really exist".




Yep, this is why I'm agnostic.  Why would I assume gods are real or not real when you can't prove either?  It's foolish to jump to conclusions.


Quote:

OpenQwerty said:: we know from mathematics that "infinity exist". Let's count the number of the points on a straight line, then the number of the points on a geometric plane... There are more than one infinity.




How is this relevant at all to the topic at hand?  It just shows that humans are intelligent.

Quote:

OpenQwerty said:Also keep in mind that if a being more powerful than us doesn't want to be recognize by any of us, he/she can do it.


 

This is such a convenient excuse for theists to remain in delusion, isn't it?


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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: OpenQwerty]
    #28629950 - 01/21/24 02:42 PM (6 days, 23 hours ago)

Quote:

OpenQwerty said:
So, do you think that the sun or the Moon does not exist? (Or a black hole. You cannot see a black hole). The sun or the Moon are gods by the definition of "God" in many ancient religions. You have just in mind a subjective version of the christian god. But hey, for example, Ganesha or Odin are even subject to die. The christian definition of "God" is not the only "Truth". You think that christian faith are not rational, so why do you accept their definition? Moreover, as I wrote before, their definition is really vague. A vague definition help both who want to believe and who does not want. And the christian god itself give about himself the MOST vague of the possible definitions.
Then: any object may be seen as "infinite", from the right prospective (for example, taking some mushrooms). So, the sun, the Earth, the Moon and so on, are legitimate gods even if we assume that a God is "Who has no limits"(and even this definition is a quite Christian definition). But if u accept the christian definition of God, you should admit that we have limits, so we may don't see Who Can Do Everything.

It is your logic that help "the case" of the christian god.





It's not a matter of believing if the sun or moon exist, it's a matter of understanding if they exist or not.  We've physically walked on the moon. 
Black holes are believed to be real through astronomical observations.
It's not a matter of accepting the Christian definition of god, it's a matter of understanding their definition of it so I can logically converse with them. 
The universe has no limits and is apparently expanding every day.  Does this make the universe a god? 


Quote:

OpenQwerty said:
It is your logic that help "the case" of the christian god.




What?


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:rave::rave::rave: I dropped a trance track "Peace Love & Trance": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4uQBM-mRYU ; :raver2::raver2::raver2::raveface:


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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: OpenQwerty]
    #28630120 - 01/21/24 04:28 PM (6 days, 21 hours ago)

I don't consider having a logical discussion to be "fighting," but I'm sure some Christians feel like it's a fight.


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