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OfflinePsilyPhily
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Icelander]
    #18132039 - 04/18/13 09:10 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

Atheism is not rational at all..

I am currently agnostic FYI.

Atheism is basically saying 'I have heard all that science has to offer and it all makes logical sense so no I don't believe all that mumbo jumbo..'

That was very close to my old opinion..

Now I say if you have studied physics enough you would be left more bewildered and more open minded to the fact that there maybe a deity or entity involved.

At least with religion you have the tools to feel a better person and the constructs to a well built society.

Atheist's only real argument is there is no proof, There is also no proof your way is true.

Until we have a definitive answer I remain agnostic..

For those who don't know, Agnostic is basically saying I am an atheist who is open to the fact there are many things we do not understand and maybe never will so to rule anything out is ignorance.

Sorry if I offended anyone.. (It's very hard not to on a hot topic like this though tbh,)

I think a rule should be adopted by the atheists and agnostics a like,
A rule that states that no insult should be implied by our own beliefs as what anyone else believes is of no concern to me..

I actually admire religion as even when really brought down to scale the very least you can say is it teaches meditation and self-reflection.

Peace, :mushroom2:Phil.


--------------------
"If a drug (or technique or process) were ever to be discovered which would consistently produce a plus four experience in all human beings, it is conceivable that it would signal the ultimate evolution, and perhaps the end, of the human experiment."
— Alexander Shulgin, PiHKAL, 1991
"Well Shulgin, you clearly haven't tried salvia 150X extract,
good effort though."

:mushroom2:Phil.


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OfflinePsilyPhily
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: teknix]
    #18132170 - 04/18/13 09:33 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

No just agnostic,
I can't believe anything without hard evidence.

It just seems that science is pointing towards something at play..
I wouldn't guess what because I need the proof but modern physics really seems to be proving that we are either very very lucky to exist (that's really putting it lightly too..) or that there is some divine force at work.

I watched a video today about the 'cosmological constant' Which basically shows that either we are very lucky because our physical laws are the way they are.
(even the finest change would not allow a universe to exist)
Or it states we live in a multi-verse and so we are just living in a universe that was one of very few that had the exact right physical forces to be able to even have anything but a cloud of primordial soup..

I feel I should be getting harsh on you two but I cut it out before posting..
You are lucky because I had some killer arguments to keep you both quite.:tongue:

:mushroom2:Phil.


--------------------
"If a drug (or technique or process) were ever to be discovered which would consistently produce a plus four experience in all human beings, it is conceivable that it would signal the ultimate evolution, and perhaps the end, of the human experiment."
— Alexander Shulgin, PiHKAL, 1991
"Well Shulgin, you clearly haven't tried salvia 150X extract,
good effort though."

:mushroom2:Phil.


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OfflinePsilyPhily
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: teknix]
    #18132458 - 04/18/13 10:21 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

No I'm not a theist, A theist believes that one deity exists or is at least partially convinced of it.

I have no evidence so cannot speculate,
As all it would be is speculation.

I entertain the idea of a deity but without hard evidence I can't say I am a believer in anything.

There is an obvious contradiction in terms that you missed but yer it all gets a bit hazy with these terms..

The only thing I was really going to say before was that you are arguing over terminology and that it was never getting you anywhere except off topic..

:mushroom2:Phil.


--------------------
"If a drug (or technique or process) were ever to be discovered which would consistently produce a plus four experience in all human beings, it is conceivable that it would signal the ultimate evolution, and perhaps the end, of the human experiment."
— Alexander Shulgin, PiHKAL, 1991
"Well Shulgin, you clearly haven't tried salvia 150X extract,
good effort though."

:mushroom2:Phil.


Extras: Unfilter Print Post Top
OfflinePsilyPhily
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: clam_dude]
    #18132662 - 04/18/13 11:04 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

Ok well a theist believes there is a deity but perhaps can't decide which to believe in so remains a theist.. (Basically a believer in ?? )

An agnostic would say, Although science has not proven the existence of a god, Nor has it dis-proven it and so I cannot believe anything other than the science. (Basically just open to the idea that there could be a deity at work)

Therefor I am open minded on the subject of religion but can't say I believe there is a god because I wont until there is something to convince me so..

That may seem like a very minor difference but in my eyes that is a drastic difference..

I would say theists are ignorant because they believe blindly but even then it is not my place to say anything..
Having faith is empowering so that can be appreciated but to just feel that there is a deity without any reason too think so just seems illogical..

I won't hold anyone beliefs against them because it should be of no concern of mine, The only reason there is to argue on the subject is if someone else started the argument with you.. Even then it wont get either of you anywhere..

The religious person will remain religious while the atheist will remain an atheist. If you think your opinion will change anyone's beliefs, You are wrong.

:mushroom2:Phil.


--------------------
"If a drug (or technique or process) were ever to be discovered which would consistently produce a plus four experience in all human beings, it is conceivable that it would signal the ultimate evolution, and perhaps the end, of the human experiment."
— Alexander Shulgin, PiHKAL, 1991
"Well Shulgin, you clearly haven't tried salvia 150X extract,
good effort though."

:mushroom2:Phil.


Extras: Unfilter Print Post Top
OfflinePsilyPhily
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: clam_dude]
    #18134844 - 04/19/13 11:03 AM (10 years, 9 months ago)

Haha can I make a point about the tree is the forest,
If no one is there then there are no ears to create a message to send to the brain for the brain then to make a sound out of it..

That is not to say the tree doesn't fall..

If you look at Shrodingers cat it is in a box with poison, It can be seen as dead, alive or both and neither as without the knowledge gained from opening the box we simply can't know..

As far as this bull about atheists and moral codes..
That's just religious people being stupid saying that those without a god and defined rules to live by is a sinner but atheists makes there own rules and have a moral code of there own initiative..

If anything religion is the less morally guided as they are forced to be good so as to not be thrown into eternal damnation..

If I needed to be convinced not to sin by fear well doesn't that show lack of moral because it's not free will anymore..

Just a thought..

:mushroom2:Phil.


--------------------
"If a drug (or technique or process) were ever to be discovered which would consistently produce a plus four experience in all human beings, it is conceivable that it would signal the ultimate evolution, and perhaps the end, of the human experiment."
— Alexander Shulgin, PiHKAL, 1991
"Well Shulgin, you clearly haven't tried salvia 150X extract,
good effort though."

:mushroom2:Phil.


Extras: Unfilter Print Post Top
OfflinePsilyPhily
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Registered: 02/07/13
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: clam_dude]
    #18134874 - 04/19/13 11:09 AM (10 years, 9 months ago)

Vibrations in the particles in the air..
Yes I study physics..

:mushroom2:Phil.


--------------------
"If a drug (or technique or process) were ever to be discovered which would consistently produce a plus four experience in all human beings, it is conceivable that it would signal the ultimate evolution, and perhaps the end, of the human experiment."
— Alexander Shulgin, PiHKAL, 1991
"Well Shulgin, you clearly haven't tried salvia 150X extract,
good effort though."

:mushroom2:Phil.


Extras: Unfilter Print Post Top
OfflinePsilyPhily
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Registered: 02/07/13
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: clam_dude]
    #18134918 - 04/19/13 11:19 AM (10 years, 9 months ago)

er no..
Sound does not exist without a brain..

Otherwise it is just a vibration..
The brain translates the vibrations the bones in the ear receive into sound..
without a listener there is no sound..

There may be a squirrel in the forest which can hear but if the forest is void of life then no sound is made..


God damn some people are dumb..

:mushroom2:Phil.

Edit: I learned this when I was about 6 and if you are older than 16 and have lived without knowing that then, Well.. I don't know what to say..


--------------------
"If a drug (or technique or process) were ever to be discovered which would consistently produce a plus four experience in all human beings, it is conceivable that it would signal the ultimate evolution, and perhaps the end, of the human experiment."
— Alexander Shulgin, PiHKAL, 1991
"Well Shulgin, you clearly haven't tried salvia 150X extract,
good effort though."

:mushroom2:Phil.


Edited by PsilyPhily (04/19/13 11:22 AM)


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OfflinePsilyPhily
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: FishOilTheKid]
    #18134963 - 04/19/13 11:26 AM (10 years, 9 months ago)

That is the vibration I mentioned,
But once again, It is not a sound without the brain to make it into one..

It is just pressure..

Jesus.., Don't try to sound educated just because you have Wikipedia..

:mushroom2:Phil.


--------------------
"If a drug (or technique or process) were ever to be discovered which would consistently produce a plus four experience in all human beings, it is conceivable that it would signal the ultimate evolution, and perhaps the end, of the human experiment."
— Alexander Shulgin, PiHKAL, 1991
"Well Shulgin, you clearly haven't tried salvia 150X extract,
good effort though."

:mushroom2:Phil.


Extras: Unfilter Print Post Top
OfflinePsilyPhily
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Registered: 02/07/13
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: FishOilTheKid]
    #18135009 - 04/19/13 11:37 AM (10 years, 9 months ago)

Don't laugh just because you are uneducated..

You clearly did not get what I have been saying,
Also the tree in the forest is an analogy..

You clearly don't get it but tbh I'm bored of teaching children now so yer..

Does anyone wanna get this back on topic?

:mushroom2:Phil.


--------------------
"If a drug (or technique or process) were ever to be discovered which would consistently produce a plus four experience in all human beings, it is conceivable that it would signal the ultimate evolution, and perhaps the end, of the human experiment."
— Alexander Shulgin, PiHKAL, 1991
"Well Shulgin, you clearly haven't tried salvia 150X extract,
good effort though."

:mushroom2:Phil.


Extras: Unfilter Print Post Top
OfflinePsilyPhily
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Registered: 02/07/13
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: FishOilTheKid]
    #18135091 - 04/19/13 11:56 AM (10 years, 9 months ago)

Uh huh, The exact response I would have expected to get from un-educated brat..

:mushroom2:Phil.


--------------------
"If a drug (or technique or process) were ever to be discovered which would consistently produce a plus four experience in all human beings, it is conceivable that it would signal the ultimate evolution, and perhaps the end, of the human experiment."
— Alexander Shulgin, PiHKAL, 1991
"Well Shulgin, you clearly haven't tried salvia 150X extract,
good effort though."

:mushroom2:Phil.


Extras: Unfilter Print Post Top
OfflinePsilyPhily
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Registered: 02/07/13
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: FishOilTheKid]
    #18135159 - 04/19/13 12:12 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

Actually I'm not bothered..

I would say however that the thread will get locked if we keep this up so yer,
You win..

:mushroom2:Phil.


--------------------
"If a drug (or technique or process) were ever to be discovered which would consistently produce a plus four experience in all human beings, it is conceivable that it would signal the ultimate evolution, and perhaps the end, of the human experiment."
— Alexander Shulgin, PiHKAL, 1991
"Well Shulgin, you clearly haven't tried salvia 150X extract,
good effort though."

:mushroom2:Phil.


Extras: Unfilter Print Post Top
OfflinePsilyPhily
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Registered: 02/07/13
Posts: 560
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: JoieDeVivre]
    #18135225 - 04/19/13 12:32 PM (10 years, 9 months ago)

Ok well the discussion was over like but sure I'l bite..

The brain does make sound out of vibrations..
If it didn't we wouldn't need the bones in our ears..

Yes the sound-waves still exist but not as sound.. Just as a wave..
If there was no device to interpret the waves as audio they remain as just waves..

Everything vibrates and yet we don't say that protons make sound..
For the simple fact that we have no device to receive the audio..

This is really turning into a debate and the fact of the matter is,
We all know the saying and the implications..

People are just arguing because they are behind a screen and have nothing better to do..

You would not know about the tree in a forest analogy if made no sense..

Why do you think it is so well known, If it had no meaning nobody would say it..

:mushroom2:Phil.


--------------------
"If a drug (or technique or process) were ever to be discovered which would consistently produce a plus four experience in all human beings, it is conceivable that it would signal the ultimate evolution, and perhaps the end, of the human experiment."
— Alexander Shulgin, PiHKAL, 1991
"Well Shulgin, you clearly haven't tried salvia 150X extract,
good effort though."

:mushroom2:Phil.


Extras: Unfilter Print Post Top
OfflinePsilyPhily
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Registered: 02/07/13
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: teknix]
    #18139151 - 04/20/13 07:20 AM (10 years, 9 months ago)

This entire thread is a contradiction,
The only thing it has proven is that we all have a irrational side that makes us argue with people over bullshit that will never be definitive ever..

Why waste you breathe?

I am agnostic, There could be something we don't know about but I wont be convinced until I can see it with my own eyes..

As far as any other religion goes, Best of luck to you.
It is not my place to insult anyone with a different belief and if you think that you are winning heavenly tokens for gods carnival by arguing that everyone else is wrong well then you are stupid..

So what is the point?

I think it is getting to the point where people have no belief in anything but just say that they do so they have something to talk about..

I know many atheist guys and well there all dicks..
The roll there eyes whenever they see anyone of any other culture or background which sickens me, If you are a believer in god you should have a similar mindset to anyone else with a belief system.

If a native american tribe was out of touch from the rest of the world,
Living in a dense forest, The word of god or any other religion would never contact those people.

My point there is that if there is a religion it could be any as even when a culture is convinced it's beliefs are true it defies logic that it could be a world religion due to the fact that this deity should love all of creation and yet neglects the closed off few..

So to sum up, Everyone needs to go get a life and just believe what they wanna believe..

P.s. If a tree falls in the woods, It doesn't make a sound unless there is someone or something to register it's presence.
It is a famous quote because although we know it would make a sound with someone standing there.
It does not make a sound when there is no device or ears or life to register it..

Please just trust me on this one, I am well educated on the subject..

:mushroom2:Phil.


--------------------
"If a drug (or technique or process) were ever to be discovered which would consistently produce a plus four experience in all human beings, it is conceivable that it would signal the ultimate evolution, and perhaps the end, of the human experiment."
— Alexander Shulgin, PiHKAL, 1991
"Well Shulgin, you clearly haven't tried salvia 150X extract,
good effort though."

:mushroom2:Phil.


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