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Invisiblelessismore

Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: clam_dude] * 1
    #17781234 - 02/11/13 12:49 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

After tripping a bit I came to realize that any animal has a conciousness/soul as great as ours, they usually have their own language too and can learn/recognize things.

Any animal, even some insects

But if it was a delusion I am trying to find out :smile:
It doesn't feel like a delusion by looking at my birds or birds outside
they can talk to each other, call on each other, solve problems/obstructions/make tools, they're social, they can recognize people/objects from far away and remember them for a very long time, when one flies the other one does as well (just to fly around without sitting anywhere)

I just would never have imagined birds could be that clever, but I have since realized that any animal I see is behaving that cleverly now, dogs, birds outside, bees,ants ,... (I just never noticed before)

Anyway, I don't think it is unlikely there is a greater reality than this one, but most people are not able to perceive it in ordinary state of conciousness, they need to go into trance.
If there is a greater reality maybe there is life after death/a creator/other dimensions etc.

How I feel 'god' is in every living thing, when I see an animal I see a being with a conciousness as great as ours; when I see a plant or a hand or a person I see the 'perfection' (even though it has obvious flaws in the DNA all the time, the perfection is larger than the imperfection in every human) - I don't believe in death (from experience with OBE's(lucid dreaming) and trips), and have seen a greater reality when tripping once (and in lucid dreaming).

When a bird the size of my hand is as clever as a small child of age 4-5 I don't think the conciousness is in its head.
Ants and bees are social/pretty clever too if you look at them, even fruit flies have a memory/can learn things (scientifically proven they have a short term memory, they use them in experiments).


I don't want to say this is an explanation for anything, but once you see the 'greater reality' for yourself and meet god or whatever it was, you don't need proof anymore, you can feel it :smile:

(I used to be atheist before tripping, but not anymore - I believe there is a creator due to the perfection I see in every living thing)

I don't believe in a specific god, I think they were all right (Budda,Jesus,Mohammed etc.), but I think there is a creator and I respect other viewpoints :smile:

I have since tripping gotten a connection to people,animals,nature that I can only describe as a spiritual connection of some sort, it is so weird that I can't put words to it


Edited by lessismore (02/11/13 01:06 AM)


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Invisiblelessismore

Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: clam_dude]
    #17781272 - 02/11/13 01:10 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Try 5g shrooms alone in silent darkness and lay and relax

not sure if you have tried :smile:

can't imagine it not making anyone view life differently

suddenly there being greater dimensions doesn't sound so unlikely after such a trip

(string theory predicts at least 11 dimensions , wonder where they got that idea, it seemed crazy before I tripped but now it sounds plausible)

if you can somehow get to an egodeath experience (not sure if you have tried), you will view everything differently likely, including death,birth,your life/past lives/people you know/nature/animals etc.
shrooms egodeath is just so quick, acid is better for realizing what happened I think (have tried on both)

egodeath is pretty hard to get, except with shrooms


Edited by lessismore (02/11/13 01:15 AM)


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Invisiblelessismore

Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: something super extreme]
    #17781286 - 02/11/13 01:18 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

the closed mind only sees what it wants to see, or hear :wink:

so I guess we may never get an answer :smile:

set,setting,dose is important with psychedelics

if you go into the trip wanting to get 'high' or trip with friends or believe it is just a chemical that is how it is going to be, I would rather let go and don't expect anything

alone in silent darkness was the only thing that worked for me, and huge doses (the small ones didn't do much)

the only thing that really changed my outlook on everything was egodeath, which took me 150 LSD sessions to get to
I basically was reborn 2-3 times that night, and the world changed afterwards, it was new
I saw my life/past lives and more, very hard to explain

the revalation isn't really the trip, it is after the trip, if you cannot process the trip itself it is worth nothing, you have to be ready in life for it IMO
I used to have lots of OBE's when I was a kid and for many years, so I guess I was a little less prone to the idea that this is the only reality
with an OBE you basically levitate towards the ceiling and can see yourself from above, fly around, meet beings/people, do anything you want and it feels 100% real - you think it is real to begin with

so that made me question what is real a bit, lucid dreams are better than any psychedelic trip in my experience (but can also be as terrifying as the worst bad trip)


Edited by lessismore (02/11/13 01:24 AM)


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Invisiblelessismore

Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: teknix]
    #17785282 - 02/11/13 07:18 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

(e
Quote:

clam_dude said:
I'm not trying to be confrontational.  That's just my honest opinion.



A theory is a theory once it has been scientifically (and empirically) proven
but if it doesn't fit into nature it isn't worth anything, so the big bang theory can still be discarded in the future (like any other theory we have in science, for science is a model of nature, doesn't matter if it is proven or not if it doesn't fit nature!).

Big Bang hasn't been described down to 0 seconds, and we still only know around 20% of the matter in the known universe, so disproving a creator/god is a little early, even if we could account for all matter in the universe there might be (many) other dimensions.
M theory says (afaik) that there are 10^500 universes and at least 11 dimensions, and we only know the 4 of them (and 20% of the universe we are in) :smile:

When I was atheist myself I never needed to disprove god all the time - I didn't believe in a god but I wasn't sure if I did or there might be one, there are lots of very intellectual people who have believed in a God.
I think Agnosticism is more rational than atheism, we cannot disprove a god/creator when we know almost nothing about our universe (we know a lot but there is still a lot we don't know).

Not everything that counts can be counted, not everything that can be counted counts.

We don't even know what a (quantum) measurement is, so how can we disprove a god?:smile:

WRT: your earlier posting about thanking god for making you atheist, how would creation be perfect if he didn't give you free will?

The thing with science and knowledge in general is, the more you know, the more you realize that you don't know and how limited your knowledge is (at least for most people, but some people think they know everything) (and not talking about the poster here, but people in general)

The thing that fascinates me is the almost strikingly perfect balance between forces, electromagnetically forces in our bodies, gravity on the large scale, cosmological constant (is just about right for life and the universe to exist iirc) etc.
Our bodies are 99.999% empty, yet they hold together


Edited by lessismore (02/11/13 07:46 PM)


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Invisiblelessismore

Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: clam_dude]
    #17785354 - 02/11/13 07:28 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Define GOD, before you decide does it exist.





That would make sense :smile:


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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: windowlikcer]
    #17919635 - 03/07/13 03:21 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

To OP:

Once you have a religious experience yourself the kind of argument/debate of this thread becomes meaningless

Also once you reach egodeath it is meaningless

You learn to accept things the way they are and that we cannot and don't need to know everything in the universe to be happy (the more you know the less happy you will be often)

The need to deny a god often stems from a doubt in yourself if there might be one/unhappiness with state of being.
IMO agnosticism makes more sense than atheism (from a scientific viewpoint, as it is important not to be closed-minded), but I think it is important to respect any belief people have.

I don't think half the world is wrong about religion, I think there is something greater than this world, but it might not be called allah, or jesus.
It doesn't matter what the name is, but I think we are part of something greater (from lucid dreams and trip experiences and every day after egodeath realizations).
Even if there is no god, there seems to be a headspace that you can tap into that has infinite wisdom . maybe your subconsciousness..
People I know who do TM reached the same conclusions about life that I did while tripping acid (I never talked about this stuff before tripping, then I realized they had my experiences).
Have also gotten 'messages' that were a bit like sentences from the bible.
Seems no matter which experience you get, someone has had it before you
I would call it a spiritual experience/life experience then.
Psychedelics often feel like many years of life experience in a trip
Once you can incorporate it in real life it sometimes becomes quite spiritual - like you can feel other people's emotions/know them before meeting them  and nature is new etc.
But also like you can see what animals think etc. and that they are as conscious as we are, even the smallest animal. They can solve non-trivial problems.

We have much more in common than we think, but maybe it is just realizing that we are all human once not clinging onto the ego.
You see yourself in everybody/your own experiences
No experience is unique to yourself, especially not religious/spiritual experiences.


Nothing can replace direct experience
and feelings and thoughts can be hard to communicate
I am only 26 years old, so thinking I know there is no god would be blasphemy
I have only very limited experience with the non-physical/spiritual - since I have been studying/sitting in front of a computer/book almost all my life - so I bet a lot of people are more in touch with themselves than I am.
(but lucid dreams and meditation and trips I have as experiences now)
I realize that some people have 50 years more life experience than me
and I might have 50 more years to learn or so, before I may be able to have a feeling about if there is something greater than this physical existance

But I still feel it every day, I don't doubt anymore.

The Lucid dreams helped me on the way for 10-15 years or so, but the trips made everything fall into place (after the trips).

I see and feel a higher purpose with humanity that cannot be communicated, and that we are more than just our bodies, with every person I meet
See the perfection in every living creature.
Even the tiniest insect have more consciousness than you would imagine.

I am a bit interested in AI programming, and it is interesting that I wouldn't even be able to program the consciousness of the tiniest insect into a program.
They might not ave self-awareness? or so we think, but they can interact with the changing environment and think logically, in a non-trivial way.
Birds especially are very conscious it seems, have noticed it all my life, but the tripping really helped put it into perspective.

After having a NDE (or several) on psychedelics, I started hearing about Terence Mckenna
he defined a shaman as 'one who has seen the end'

Death becomes meaningless once you go there, you accept death afterwards, but you see beyond death
if there is no death(or so I might think/feel), maybe there is something greater than this reality
it is a feeling of acceptance of everything in this universe, without fear,guilt,frustration etc.

Nothing can replace real experiences, and they can be very hard to communicate to people without experiences themselves.

Take the 5g psilocybin or 10-strip (a few times) without thinking 'it is just a drug', do alone in silent darkness, think about what you want to know or just go with the flow and see what happens.
You might have known the answer to everything all along, and forgotten.

Lucid dreams feel as real/sometimes more real than this reality, so the idea of this reality being the only one I don't know what to say to

I used to be atheist, but it was mostly because I didn't want to decide
Now I am agnostic I think
From a scientific viewpoint I think agnostism makes more sense than atheism, since we only know 20% of the universe or so, we have no idea what dark energy,dark matter is or if there are extra dimensions.
It is important to realize that we know almost nothing , even though we almost have a theory of everything.

We don't know what a measurement is
We don't know how the body works, and specially not mind/body interaction (which is very powerful)
We don't know how the mind works (except a few small details, but I think psychedelics help us understand, we're nowhere close to being able to simulate the mind fully)
We don't know what the universe contains, except maybe 20% (and we don't know if there are extra dimensions, but some believe there are)
We don't know what empty space is/what an electric field is
We don't understand gravity well on the microscopic scale, we don't know what gravity is
We don't know what reality (or consciousness) is, there seems to be no common reality, and multiple layers of reality for everybody

We don't know anything about anything, but we think we know everything

A good Einstein quote:
"Not everything that counts can be counted, not everything that can be counted counts"

Leaving your mind open to new ideas is important, especially in science.

Once we knew the world was flat. Once (not too long ago), we thought the earth was the center of the universe. About a hundred years ago we thought (and science said) the atoms were the smallest part of the universe (now we got quarks and a zoo of particles).  .. the list goes on

Peace & love :smile:


Edited by lessismore (03/07/13 03:59 PM)


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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Diploid]
    #17919901 - 03/07/13 04:08 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

To OP:
The title of this thread would be a bit more humble/respectful if it said

"Need your input/experiences on religion/spirituality"

I would imagine the title in this thread scaring a few religious people away, they don't want to argue like this.


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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: something super extreme]
    #17920096 - 03/07/13 04:46 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

sVs said:
Who don't want to provide logic or reasoning to defend their position?
Well, frankly, their opinions don't really matter.




You cannot prove there is no god, so why do you believe atheism is more logic than theism?

Even though all the suffering you see, there might still be a god. Not everybody sees the world like you do too.
Maybe suffering is not the cause of god, but due to free will of man?

Even if you don't feel god, other people might feel god everyday.

Agnosticism is more rational I think

Never leave out any possibilities, no matter how small they might be.

(that is what QM is all about, there is a possibility for everything and nothing is certain:)

If there was a true creator, how would creation be perfect without free will?
there might be a non-interacting creator, that you can only reach through other states of mind than logical thinking

Do you think logic is all that matters (in science/the world)?
I think creativity is equally important

Creativity and logic don't always go hand in hand.

Often it is very hard to be creative when thinking logically all the time.

But since you only respect science, maybe you respect Einstein:
"I am convinced that He (God) does not play dice."
"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind."
"Imagination is more important than knowledge."
"My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind."
"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one."
"Gravitation is not responsible for people falling in love."
"No, this trick won't work...How on earth are you ever going to explain in terms of chemistry and physics so important a biological phenomenon as first love?"
"A human being is a part of a whole, called by us _universe_, a part limited in time and space.
He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest... a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness.
This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us.
Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty." 
"Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts." (Sign hanging in Einstein's office at Princeton)

He's basically saying, that science isn't everything.
Creativity matters much, more than knowledge (that is my experience too).
That there is more than science can account for.


Many people that study/truly believe in science never experience love etc. in their life, which is a shame.

Call Einstein naive, but he still understood the most of our universe, more than anyone else in 1930es or thereabout when he released his theories, and he was never proved wrong.

I think like Einstein that there are no coincidences, I only see causation

When there is greed, there is hunger
when there is death there is birth
when there is overconsumption, there is starvation and illness
we need to stop destroying our world, and respect each other
but much more than that, everything has a reason I believe, even though we might not understand it
I don't believe in a non-deterministic universe (i.e. god doesn't play dice).

And creativity is much more important than knowledge I think
I spent 10 years without any creativity, without being able to think out of the box, spent 5 years at uni etc.

Then I realized my mind worked much better 10 years ago, and now that I got my creativity back.
People with no education who meditated (and with more life experience) were able to argue more logically than me (and even do head calculations better), even though I had spent 4 years at uni.

Knowledge isn't worth anything if you are not creative or stressed out.

And I try not to think of myself as being better/smarter than anybody else.

Everything you use in daily life has been invented by people without education usually, some/most of the inventions are ingenious.

Science isn't all that matters, but science is nice and has impacted our lives a lot, not only for the better though.


My point in all of this is again, nothing can replace real experience
You only have a very limited life-experience, and so do I.
There is much that we don't know and can account for. Leave all possibilities open.

That is what makes agnosticism attractive to me, so I don't need to decide if there is a creator.


Edited by lessismore (03/07/13 05:06 PM)


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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Diploid]
    #17920262 - 03/07/13 05:18 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

I experienced something like telepathy too once on LSD
(but might be suggestion)

from a scientific viewpoint it makes sense

every particle in the world is connected (by gravity etc, but also in some weird quantum way it seems, "spooky action at a distance"), and thoughts are just particles being fired

there is even a possibility that your thought wave will go right through your skull in QM


not sure I believe in it though :smile:
hehe


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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Space Monkey]
    #17920308 - 03/07/13 05:26 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Telepathy doesn't seem so interesting to me, as does lucid dreaming

Lucid dreaming and dreaming is as real as this reality, same with tripping (in a neurological way)
And we don't know why we dream yet.

How do you know/decide what is real?

What is even more important is to realize we each create our own reality, how your friend sees the world is not like you perceive it

So because you cannot perceive god doesn't mean a god doesn't exist :P

Maybe god was there all the time, and you were just in the wrong reality.


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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: something super extreme]
    #17920324 - 03/07/13 05:30 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Yes, but trying to make a theory without having the basics makes no sense

Atheism is the idea that god doesn't exist

But you don't know what reality is
And you don't define your god.

Define reality and god and how to measure god, before asking the question


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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Diploid]
    #17920362 - 03/07/13 05:38 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
I experienced something like telepathy too once on LSD

If you can demonstrate this, you can easily win the JREF Million Dollar Prize. All you have to do is what you said you can do.

In fact, I will even buy you an airline ticket to Fort Lauderdale for the formal test, I will put you up in the best South Beach hotel with an ocean view, I will pay all your meals, and I will drive you around as long as you're here if you simply do what you say you can do.

Note to audience, with a million bucks and a free Florida vacation on the table and absolutely nothing to lose, he will not even apply for the JREF challenge. But he'll get up in the morning and go to work. What does this tell us about the bullshit he just posted?




Neurosoup experienced it too it seems in her youtube vids.
Maybe it is just suggestion, suggestion is strong

I never said it was real, so please quote my whole post next time :smile:

Just like a dream isn't always to be perceived as real.

But to me I wouldn't discard the idea of telepathy, even though it might not happen at will, it might be possible by random chance.

I never discard any ideas.

With randomness though, it might be possible for a double blind study to actually demonstrate telepathy :smile:

If you throw a dice 100 times, you might get a 6 all 100 times you know, and it will still be random (even though you suspect something went wrong).

If you enter the competition enough times , it might be possible to win.


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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: something super extreme]
    #17920412 - 03/07/13 05:45 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

sVs said:
My friend ate seven grams of mushrooms and saw god.
Guess what? There's still no god. More importantly, anecdotal evidence is still worthless.




No, there is no god in your universe

Everybody's universe is different, we each create our own reality

If we decide on a set of common rules for 'reality', like science usually does with double-blind studies, it might be very hard to prove a god

But it still doesn't mean god doesn't exist in any form.

Not everything can be proven/put in exact form (like polynomial equations over 4th degree, but you can prove that you cannot prove it as an exact size:)


Edited by lessismore (03/07/13 05:53 PM)


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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Zanthius]
    #17920541 - 03/07/13 06:11 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Zanthius said:
Just like diploid said, you can go to a people living in the middle of amazonas and convince them that you are omnipotent. Just bring your laptop.  When humans see something they can't comprehend, they always jump to the conclusion that it must be omnipotence. This is a weakness of the human psyche.

Even if a being crushes a galaxy I won't believe it to be omnipotent. I need to see the being crush the entire universe before I believe it to be omnipotent. I need to see the being change the configuration of the entire universe in a nanosecond before I believe it to be omnipotent.






You change the entire universe by just being here
Gravity extends to infinity, every particle in the universe seems to be connected on the quantum level too, at least once you have entangled them (with recent experiments, google "spooky action at a distance").

I think it is a weakness that you have to define everything too
You can do math fine without defining infinity.

But sometimes you have to define it, just not 99% of the time.

You can believe there might be a creator without defining specifically the creator, like I do (agnosticism) :smile:

Theism is a bit more unfounded, but is still based on personal experience.
I don't think my reality is more real than anyone else's
If someone feel god in his reality, then it's fine with me.
I don't think this reality is much real (but it is the most real thing we currently have:).


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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: clam_dude]
    #17920594 - 03/07/13 06:22 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

clam_dude said:
Also, mio, regarding your earlier post - How can you claim that atheists are closed-minded? Have you even read my op, or any of the posts in the thread? We've been over this countless times.  Most atheists, myself included, don't deny the existence of god.




The title just sounds closed-minded and like any of the other threads like this.

But yes I saw your earlier posts.

I just believe it is important not to think you're better than anybody else, and accept everybody else  no matter their beliefs

You are not necessarily more logic due to your belief in atheism (there are plenty of good science students/phds who are agnostic/theists).

Many atheists say that theists are "naive, idiotic" etc
To me, I think it is the opposite
People that think they know it all and are better than everybody else,  have not learned a thing.

The more you know, the more you realize you don't know.


Edited by lessismore (03/07/13 06:31 PM)


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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: clam_dude]
    #17920665 - 03/07/13 06:37 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

clam_dude said:
Also, mio, regarding your earlier post - How can you claim that atheists are closed-minded? Have you even read my op, or any of the posts in the thread? We've been over this countless times.  Most atheists, myself included, don't deny the existence of god.




Usually atheists fully reject a creator/god.

Never met an atheist that said that a creator was a possibility.

Usually agnosticism is like what you say there:
You don't necessarily see a creator, but you don't reject there being one.

With atheism you usually reject there being a creator, since there is no proof.

But I understand the trouble with deciding that many probably feel.
I used to be theist,then atheist,then theist, then agnostic :smile:

I don't feel the need to be overly religious, I just don't want to decide due to my limited life experience.

Buddhism seem to make good sense to me.


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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Zanthius]
    #17925947 - 03/08/13 07:06 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Zanthius said:
I think people should be much more critical to their own direct experiences. I have many weird experiences both from drug induced states and from dreams. But I don't necessarily think they come from anywhere else than my own mind.




Dreams don't seem very real too often but I still accept them as real almost everytime unfortunately.

But have you tried lucid dreaming? (they always feel as real as this reality, sometimes even more real)

Sleep paralysis feels as real as this reality too, full hallucinations thinking I was awake and believed it was real (a full demon entity in my room that I could see,feel,hear), it was worse than my worst bad trips on acid/shrooms (and have had some really bad trips I think).

Still remember it like it was yesterday, and it has been 15 years.
Couldn't sleep for a few days after that 'dream' (I was 12 at the time).

In the end there is no sure way to tell what is real and what is not (except you cannot die in dreams, and you cannot wake up in reality we think).
I now always ask myself if what I experience is likely in this reality that I am in, and how I got where I am, and how likely it is that I am here today.

We agree on a common reality when we are 'awake'.
But this common reality is not perceived exactly the same by everyone.

Personally I think dreams are as real as this reality, both are artificially created in the brain.
If you change the operating system you see things differently. You may even see things in 'reality' that others don't see (mental illness, psychosis i.e.).

Everything we see is a simulation of the mind.

(some say we don't see with our eyes, but with our consciousness - I truly believe in that)


Edited by lessismore (03/08/13 09:33 PM)


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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: lessismore]
    #17926003 - 03/08/13 07:19 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

I would even argue that egodeath = waking up in reality :smile:

Because once you get there, you realize (afterwards, in daily life) that nothing you see is like you believed it to be. (I did and seems a few others had the same exp)

There are infinite realities (we each create our own) and infinite states of being.
We have just chosen one that suits our culture the most.
In other cultures psychedelic (and spiritual) experiences are interpreted as real and a part of their culture.

Only when you die do you find out if the reality you were living in was real/the only one. That is actually what happens with (ego)death I believe. Sometimes you even get to see beyond death.

I believe there are more realities than this one, and a greater reality as well (I've seen it first in lucid dreams, then trips).

The good thing is that, once you have the experience/believe you don't need proof - you can feel it, only atheists need proofs :smile:

But the electromagnetic spectrum is infinite, our eyes can only register about 300-700nm in the spectrum, which is a negligible small part of it.
Yet we still think we see all there is.
And we think only one state of mind matters (the state of our own ego, that is what our society is built around).


Edited by lessismore (03/08/13 09:30 PM)


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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: clam_dude]
    #17926703 - 03/08/13 09:35 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

To the person talking about weird trip experiences:

I had one weird experience where I got 2-3 new lives in one trip (died a few times)

It was so weird I have no way of explaining it, but I felt like all my past experiences weren't mine, felt separated from everyone I know, and I think I saw my whole life too iirc
(the last part I am not sure of, I hardly remember anything from the trip)

and I became a new person, in every possible way after it, the old me is gone

People wouldn't recognize me if they knew me before.

(it was with LSD not shrooms though, think I had taken about 2-3 'dalai lama' hits, shrooms would just have put me out instantly with such a dose I think)

Another thing that has changed is that I don't fear death anymore of anyone I know or myself.
But everything has changed, people, the world, nature, animals.

Everything was for the better, I don't regret.


Edited by lessismore (03/08/13 10:20 PM)


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Invisiblelessismore
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Posts: 6,268
Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: clam_dude]
    #17930836 - 03/09/13 07:43 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Most professors haven't got tenure
so they can't come forward and say what they want to.

Once you believe you don't need to tell everyone about it, unless asked.

But the disbelievers are talking all the time.

education/belief:
when you dedicate your life to your studies, you never feel love, you never live, you live the lie of the ego your whole life(or once school starts)
you only do what others (society) expect you to do
you have no other values in life usually
you completely forget who 'you' are
you forgot what it is to be 'human'

how is god going to exist in your universe when you only feel miserable each day
but you're doing it to yourself

I think life has lessons to learn us, we must all suffer a great deal, that is life experience.

I don't know the answer to everything and I don't need to, but I feel a higher purpose with humanity, that can only be felt once you can let go of the ego.

Too much of anything is bad.
Science can be one of those things.
It gets you further away from true self.

(own experience, in every possible way unfortunately)


And I would like to see the studies confirming that higher education correlates with lack of belief in god

another thing is correlation != causation , which is a very important thing to know


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