|
falcon



Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 8,005
Last seen: 4 hours, 47 minutes
|
Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: clam_dude] 2
#17780133 - 02/10/13 09:23 PM (10 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
You don't want this forum if you're not looking for opposition. You haven't offered any evidence that supports your rational. You'd do better in the Spirituality and Mystic forum with this kind of post.
|
falcon



Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 8,005
Last seen: 4 hours, 47 minutes
|
|
Quote:
sVs said:
Quote:
teknix said: And what is, isn't necessarily rational, :o
 Rationality is probably best-described as adherence to what "is". Are you just spouting some nonsensicality in hope of gaining some ground here?
Rationality is best described as an adherence to acting in accordance with what one thinks "is" to produce the best results to reach a goal or solve a problem. It is the process of acting logically on what one believes. The OP claiming that Atheism is the only rational position, is not right given that definition of what is rational. Rationality is a not description of the correctness of ones world view, even though it is colloquially used that way to denigrate others beliefs. Rationality describes a mental process that uses logic to reach conclusions.
|
falcon



Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 8,005
Last seen: 4 hours, 47 minutes
|
Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Icelander]
#18131220 - 04/18/13 06:47 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
This rule,
You are free to present pretty much anything philosophical that you want to put up for consideration - you can even espouse ideas most people would find ludicrous or repugnant. What you can't do is attack the person making the ludicrous or repugnant statements. You can bring to bear all your rhetorical skills and articulate arguments in an attempt to expose the idea under discussion as ludicrous, repugnant or whatever - as a matter of fact you are encouraged to do so - but the acceptable method is to direct all your weaponry at the IDEA being presented, not at the person presenting the idea.
Seemed personalismlike to me, not owning up to it, Priceless.
|
falcon



Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 8,005
Last seen: 4 hours, 47 minutes
|
Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: clam_dude]
#18131488 - 04/18/13 07:34 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
but that you probably just choose not to listen. Nice try, so he doesn't see your point of view, with the implication that it's the right point of veiw, because he's not listening.
Quote:
Ad Hominem (Argument to the Man)
Attacking the person instead of attacking his argument. For example, "Von Daniken's books about ancient astronauts are worthless because he is a convicted forger and embezzler." Which is true, but that doesn't make them worthless. An embezzler can put forth a valid argument just like an honest person can.
A common form is an attack on sincerity. For example, "How can you argue for vegetarianism when you wear leather shoes?" The two wrongs make a right fallacy is related. The debate is about vegetarianism. That the arguer wears leather is irrelevant. Wearing leather does not somehow transform someone's argument from valid to invalid, unless the debate is specifically about the type of shoes the arguer wears.
A variation (related to Argument By Generalization) is to attack a whole class of people. For example, "Evolutionary biology is a sinister tool of the materialistic, atheistic religion of Secular Humanism." Similarly, one notorious net.kook waved away a whole category of evidence by announcing "All the scientists were drunk." A drunk can present valid evidence because the validity of the evidence stands on its own and does not hinge on the person presenting it.
Another variation is attack by innuendo: "Why don't scientists tell us what they really know; are they afraid of public panic?" The suggestion that the scientists know more than they're letting on is pure speculation and says nothing about the evidence presented one way or another.
There may be a pretense that the attack isn't happening: "In order to maintain a civil debate, I will not mention my opponent's drinking problem." Unless the topic being debated is the opponent's drinking, mentioning it is as irrelevant as commenting that his tie is ugly.
Sometimes the attack is on intelligence. For example, "If you weren't so stupid you would have no problem seeing my point of view." Or, a dismissing sarcastic comment like "Well, you're just smarter than the rest of us."
An important exception is that Ad Hominem is not fallacious if the attack goes to the credibility of the argument itself. For instance, the argument may depend on its presenter's claim that he's an expert. This is an Appeal to Authority which is often, but not always, fallacious. Trial judges allow this category of attacks. In this very narrow case, the Ad Hominem is valid because the foundation of the counter-argument is the opponent making claims based on his status as an expert, and therefore the personal attack questioning his expert status is valid.
|
falcon



Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 8,005
Last seen: 4 hours, 47 minutes
|
Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: clam_dude]
#18131569 - 04/18/13 07:49 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
So most people that claim to be atheists aren't sure that they are.
|
falcon



Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 8,005
Last seen: 4 hours, 47 minutes
|
Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: clam_dude]
#18131693 - 04/18/13 08:07 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Well why call yourself someone that doesn't think that there is a God, i.e. an Atheist and then qualify it with the provision that you're not sure?
Edited by falcon (04/18/13 08:09 PM)
|
falcon



Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 8,005
Last seen: 4 hours, 47 minutes
|
Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: clam_dude]
#18131739 - 04/18/13 08:14 PM (10 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
You don't have to be one or the other.
|
falcon



Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 8,005
Last seen: 4 hours, 47 minutes
|
|
Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: Unsurprisingly, both suck equally at manipulating consensus reality.
Consensus reality is manipulated by religions, it is I think what they are very good at. Maybe you didn't mean to say consensus?
|
falcon



Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 8,005
Last seen: 4 hours, 47 minutes
|
Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: stellarshnap]
#18428379 - 06/16/13 04:01 PM (10 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
stellarshnap said:
Quote:
Bodhi of Ankou said: Everything you are is a product of the physical arrangement of atoms in your body. From memories to feelings. If its broken you cease to exist. There is nothing else to it. You're correct in saying energy can neither be created or destroyed, but that has absolutely no bearing on the impermanence of your consciousness. Its like a knot in a rope, where does the knot go when you untie it? It simply ceases to exist. There is no afterlife for that knot, why would there be? Do you think you're any different than it simply because you breath?
But the rope that composed that not is still there isn't it? The knot didn't die, it was just transformed into a piece of rope 
And the fibers would have been stretched in a pattern consistent with a knot. haha And it would be know as the rope that was once twisted in onto itself and formed a knot. Amen.
|
falcon



Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 8,005
Last seen: 4 hours, 47 minutes
|
Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: clam_dude]
#18520577 - 07/06/13 02:12 PM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
I understand that most Atheists don't deny the possibility of god but the word Atheism, the word from it's construction, the use of 'a' as prefix would lead any sane person familiar with English to think that it means that it's a belief that there are no gods. It's confusing.
|
falcon



Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 8,005
Last seen: 4 hours, 47 minutes
|
Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: johnm214]
#18520685 - 07/06/13 02:44 PM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
johnm214 said:
Quote:
falcon said: I understand that most Atheists don't deny the possibility of god but the word Atheism, the word from it's construction, the use of 'a' as prefix would lead any sane person familiar with English to think that it means that it's a belief that there are no gods. It's confusing.
Why? Does amoral mean immoral or simply without moral consideration? It means the later.
Does apolitical mean opposed to politics, or simply without politics? It means the later.
Similarly, atheist doesn't mean belief in no god, it means without a beleif in god.
But even if this etymological point was solid, it doesn't matter: etymology doesn't dictate meaning.
You're right, but it still doesn't make it any less confusing for me, I find it easy to distinguish the meaning immoral and amoral. The same with apolitical, it's meaning comes easily, atheism for some reason, maybe it's many theists don't speak kindly of those that don't believe.
|
falcon



Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 8,005
Last seen: 4 hours, 47 minutes
|
Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Roger Wilco]
#19240217 - 12/07/13 10:24 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Ah, pragmatism?, empiricism? lol
|
falcon



Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 8,005
Last seen: 4 hours, 47 minutes
|
Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: topdog82]
#19240442 - 12/07/13 11:25 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
I disagree and since you think you don't know anything, you have no basis for not agreeing with me.
|
falcon



Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 8,005
Last seen: 4 hours, 47 minutes
|
Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Icelander]
#20881363 - 11/23/14 09:04 PM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Icelander said: Atheists don't really do that do they?
In my experience, most say that there is no god, they think what that is what it means to be an Atheist, so from experience this is how I perceive most Athiests. The definition defended in this thread that an Atheist is someone who believes that there is no evidence for God, would have to include many Theists, because it for sure includes most of the Theists, in my experience.
|
|