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Offlineraceme
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How effective is selective breeding with mushrooms?
    #17760821 - 02/07/13 09:57 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

I was thinking about the oft-repeated phrase "A Cube is a Cube", and I wondered "Why is this the case?".  P. cubensis is widely cultivated, and has been for a while now, and given that its reproductive cycle is quite short, I would have thought that someone would have been able to tease out some desirable traits from it in a manner similar to which vegetable cultivars are made.  (Not that this question only applies to cubensis.  The same could be asked of many popular edible mushrooms).  Thoughts?  Does anyone have experience breeding in this manner?

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: How effective is selective breeding with mushrooms? [Re: raceme]
    #17760952 - 02/07/13 10:26 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

This is how we do it and why we isolate strains on agar.  However, we really don't know what we have until we get it so we have to keep lots of culture slants while our projects are growing out to the fruiting stage.

Once you get mushrooms with the qualities you seek, go back to the carefully labeled corresponding master culture slants and regenerate the mycelium in perpetuity.
RR


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Offlineraceme
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Re: How effective is selective breeding with mushrooms? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #17762198 - 02/07/13 02:14 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

I was thinking something more along the lines of:
  • Begin with something like a spore syringe to ensure that your culture has many dikaryons.
  • Fruit the culture without doing isolations.
  • Select a fruit that has the desired traits (size, color, early pinning…), and either obtain a spore print from that fruit, or clone it to obtain a single dikaryon culture, then fruit and print that.
  • Make a new culture (of many dikaryons) with the spores from the dikaryon with the desirable trait.
  • Repeat until the desired trait is strongly expressed.


Is anything similar to this process commonly done?

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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: How effective is selective breeding with mushrooms? [Re: raceme]
    #17762804 - 02/07/13 04:00 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

I think that's pretty much it.

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: How effective is selective breeding with mushrooms? [Re: raceme]
    #17762863 - 02/07/13 04:10 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

raceme said:
I was thinking something more along the lines of:
  • Begin with something like a spore syringe to ensure that your culture has many dikaryons.
  • Fruit the culture without doing isolations.
  • Select a fruit that has the desired traits (size, color, early pinning…), and either obtain a spore print from that fruit, or clone it to obtain a single dikaryon culture, then fruit and print that.
  • Make a new culture (of many dikaryons) with the spores from the dikaryon with the desirable trait.
  • Repeat until the desired trait is strongly expressed.


Is anything similar to this process commonly done?




Yes, but with poor results.  When you use spores, most if not all of the dikaryons combine into a single organism.  This organism is a combination of all the genes available, whether good, bad, or ugly.  If you isolate strains early, some strains will be bunk and others stellar.  This will deliver far better results than cloning a fruit from a multispore inoculation which may or may not be composed of a single strain.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison

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Invisiblelaughingsol
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Registered: 01/01/12
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Re: How effective is selective breeding with mushrooms? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #17763811 - 02/07/13 07:23 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

I've had my eye on this book for a while, but haven't made the leap.  I don't have much to say other than this is probably a good place to start if you really want to explore the topic in depth. 

http://books.google.com/books/about/Genetics_and_Breeding_of_Edible_Mushroom.html?id=cMop6Dbni_kC


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Invisibleryan
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Posts: 111
Re: How effective is selective breeding with mushrooms? [Re: laughingsol]
    #17763945 - 02/07/13 07:49 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

The "A Cube is a Cube" quote is very unfortunate. P. cubensis has spread around the world, and phenotypically distinct "races" exist that represent significant genotypic diversity.

The reason more selective breeding is not done is because it is not easy. In order to really be effective you have to isolate monokaryotic mycelium from multiple races and cross them.

If all you ever do to selectively "breed" a better mushroom is start with one print and keep selecting mushrooms from mycelia grown out from that print, then you don't have enough genetic diversity to breed something better.

It can be done, unfortunately is just isn't happening.

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Offlineraceme
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Re: How effective is selective breeding with mushrooms? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #17764096 - 02/07/13 08:17 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
[When you use spores, most if not all of the dikaryons combine into a single organism.



So a large amount of the growth you get from a MS inoculation is one big "polykaryon"?  Interesting…  I wonder what controls which spores' genes are expressed, with all those different nuclei floating around in there.

Quote:

laughingsol said:
I've had my eye on this book for a while, but haven't made the leap.  I don't have much to say other than this is probably a good place to start if you really want to explore the topic in depth. 

http://books.google.com/books/about/Genetics_and_Breeding_of_Edible_Mushroom.html?id=cMop6Dbni_kC



I now know the next thing I'm saving up for…  Thanks for the tip!

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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Registered: 11/17/09
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Re: How effective is selective breeding with mushrooms? [Re: raceme]
    #17764960 - 02/07/13 11:06 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

P. cubensis is widely cultivated, and has been for a while now, and given that its reproductive cycle is quite short, I would have thought that someone would have been able to tease out some desirable traits from it in a manner similar to which vegetable cultivars are made.




Of course they have.  Where did you think popular strains came from in the first place? Straight out of the wild?

So long as you can maintain vigor while selecting for desirable traits you're golden.  That's how breeders have always worked with domesticated plants and animals.

:peace:PS


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