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Anonymous

Genetic engineering
    #1776044 - 08/03/03 06:37 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

This is something I have never understood. What is the big fuss about genetic engeering for? I'm referring mainly to crops, now including trees, if you've heard. Why are some "environmentalists" (ironically named) so vehemently opposed to something that can be so beneficial to mankind? Nature has been genetically engineering itself in the form of evolution for millions of years. I don't see any difference between that and our own biological alterations. Please explain.


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Anonymous

Re: Genetic engineering [Re: ]
    #1776190 - 08/03/03 07:45 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

because 1) it's extremely risky
and
2) Super hybrids totally fuck biodiversity which is extremely important in surviving .. well.. anything


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Genetic engineering [Re: ]
    #1776227 - 08/03/03 08:02 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Mutations happen in the wild at a far greater rate than anything humans can ever hope to accomplish. I'm certainly not afraid of some mutant crabgrass suddenly springing up.

I'm not sure I understand the arguement that the new "supergenes" will spread to other species. How does that happen, and so what if it does. Tomato supergenes can only be transferred to wild tomatoes, corn supergenes can only be transferred to wild corn (if there is such a thing) Seems like adding new genes would be increasing biodiversity.


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Anonymous

Re: Genetic engineering [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1776235 - 08/03/03 08:05 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

consider that the genes theyre adding to biogen species ARE from completely diff genera and even kingdoms- nature has NOT done anything in that

if you have a genetic species perfectly created to outproducing all of the others around it, you totally decimate the biodiversity in the area- basically biotech is just too good


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OfflineDellComputers
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Re: Genetic engineering [Re: ]
    #1776240 - 08/03/03 08:06 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I think its a good thing, they need to grow it elswhere though, not give it to famers like they want. Its not good when humans fuck with nature...but they should definetly try it because theres no reason so many thousands of people need to starve if we have the resources to help.


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Anonymous

Re: Genetic engineering [Re: DellComputers]
    #1776251 - 08/03/03 08:09 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

id have absolutely no problem with it if it was done hydroponically and indoors


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Offlined33p
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Re: Genetic engineering [Re: ]
    #1776336 - 08/03/03 09:00 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

In my view genetic engineering can potentionally save millions upon millions of people from famin. What i ask is if this is actaully a good thing. In many places there is already gross overcrowding. In nature when food becomes abundant a species flourishes but soon the food dwindles and the species numbers begin to drop. But soon the ratio of food to animals in fine and they bounce back. Many people suffering in 3rd world countries are only in that condition beacuse all people do there is fuck like rabbits. If everyone there currently gets fed and lives to old age there will be an immense population growth. WIthout space or resoucces to care for people produced during this baby boom many will die. As nietzsche says it is this christian pitty for the less fourtunate bullshit that is gonna kill us all. Some people were born to suffer their intire lives. If that person is helped someone else will simply suffer in their place.


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OfflineDellComputers
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Re: Genetic engineering [Re: d33p]
    #1776341 - 08/03/03 09:03 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

d33p said:
Some people were born to suffer their intire lives. If that person is helped someone else will simply suffer in their place.




You really believe that? I dont think I have anymore right to eat than some kid in Somolia.


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Offlined33p
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Re: Genetic engineering [Re: DellComputers]
    #1776349 - 08/03/03 09:10 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

As i said the fact is either you or that kid will be suffering. We cannot decide who should so let natural conditions decide.


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Offlined33p
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Re: Genetic engineering [Re: d33p]
    #1776351 - 08/03/03 09:12 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

What about the food that we produce and give to those straving nations sterilizes the person eating it. Everyone gets fed and population strain is reduced. Thats what i call a win win situation.


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OfflineDellComputers
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Re: Genetic engineering [Re: d33p]
    #1776357 - 08/03/03 09:15 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

d33p said:
What about the food that we produce and give to those straving nations sterilizes the person eating it. Everyone gets fed and population strain is reduced. Thats what i call a win win situation.




I hope I misundestand. You dont mean 'we' should produce food to give to starving nations that will sterlize them, do you?


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Genetic engineering [Re: ]
    #1776417 - 08/03/03 09:40 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Morrowind said:
consider that the genes theyre adding to biogen species ARE from completely diff genera and even kingdoms- nature has NOT done anything in that

if you have a genetic species perfectly created to outproducing all of the others around it, you totally decimate the biodiversity in the area- basically biotech is just too good




Do you know how hard it is to move a gene from one species to another? It's not something that's just going to happen on it's own. It requires millions of dollars worth of equipment and highly skilled scientists, something most organisms don't have.


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Offlined33p
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Re: Genetic engineering [Re: DellComputers]
    #1776570 - 08/03/03 10:19 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

"we" shouldnt produce anything. We just devope the strain of food and give it to them. Everyone's fed and future generations will not have to worry about population strain


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OfflineDellComputers
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Re: Genetic engineering [Re: d33p]
    #1776581 - 08/03/03 10:23 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Are you joking? You think western scientists should produce a 'strain' of food that will sterilize people, give it to starving nations and just check them off the to-do list for good..? Thats probably the most fucked up thing I've ever heard anyone say....I think you forgot 'Hail Hitler!' at the end of your post.


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Anonymous

Re: Genetic engineering [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1776605 - 08/03/03 10:31 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

thats unimportant- the existance of a truly superior species is the problem

besides which, mules are the sterile combination of a horse and a donkey.. A biogen tomato plant may well breed with a normal tomato plant, and, considering the genetic complexity of plants, the result will be unknown for quite a bit


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Offlined33p
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Re: Genetic engineering [Re: DellComputers]
    #1776673 - 08/03/03 10:51 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Well obviously nothing like that would happen. And why does that have anything to do with nazis. Hitler sterizled people cuz he didnt like them. Sterilization could be usefull in 3rd world countries beacuse people fuck like rabbits. Put yourself in these peoples shoes. No food no entertainment, no nothing. What else can you do that enjoyable other than fuck. Sterilization would be usefull to themselves. By over populating their area they are bring futher grief to decendants. Having 9 kids in a 3rd world country is certainly not a good thing, yet it is common.


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OfflineDellComputers
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Re: Genetic engineering [Re: d33p]
    #1776694 - 08/03/03 10:55 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

d33p said:
Sterilization could be usefull in 3rd world countries beacuse people fuck like rabbits.




I cant believe you think its your right to sterilize people. America is more populated than some third world countrys. Lets drop some chemicals in New Yorks water supply. If you havent gotten it from my posts my point is, and try to focus: ITS NOT YOUR PLACE TO TELL OTHER PEOPLE HOW TO LIVE. YOU CAN NOT STERILIZE PEOPLE BECAUSE YOU THINK THERE IS TO MANY OF THEM. If you cant agree, I pitty you.


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Offlined33p
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Re: Genetic engineering [Re: DellComputers]
    #1776708 - 08/03/03 11:00 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I said it would be USEFULL. When i list complete plans to do this BY MYSELF. And in hell in america they do practice sterilization. Im not saying anyone should do anything. Im just saying it could benefit many. I dont care what type of person we are talking about by the way. I hate all races equaly including my own so dont take me as a racist.


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Offlineneutralizer
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Re: Genetic engineering [Re: d33p]
    #1776721 - 08/03/03 11:05 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

d33p said:
Well obviously nothing like that would happen. And why does that have anything to do with nazis. Hitler sterizled people cuz he didnt like them. Sterilization could be usefull in 3rd world countries beacuse people fuck like rabbits. Put yourself in these peoples shoes. No food no entertainment, no nothing. What else can you do that enjoyable other than fuck. Sterilization would be usefull to themselves. By over populating their area they are bring futher grief to decendants. Having 9 kids in a 3rd world country is certainly not a good thing, yet it is common.




The reason they have lots of children is because their infant mortality rate is so high. They have to have a lot of children because if they don't then they my not have any offspring that live to adulthood. Also, their way of life is different than ours; when they grow older, they rely on their children to take care of them. If they have lots of children, they are more likely to have a chance to retire when they get old instead of having to work like a slave every day of their lives.

If you really care about situations like these in developing/third world countries, we need to try to work on some of their social problems.


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OfflineMalachi
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Re: Genetic engineering [Re: neutralizer]
    #1776748 - 08/03/03 11:13 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

a "super crop" is a desperate solution for a situation that shouldn't be desperate. so yes, it's needed, but the root problems that cause inequity ought to be addressed - thereby avoiding any risks, even if there aren't any.


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The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich


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