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Humility
Working on it



Registered: 10/07/08
Posts: 6,745
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
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Re: What would happen if somebody told cops about a grow? [Re: Enlil]
#17743755 - 02/04/13 01:15 PM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
Humility said: The cops most CERTAINLY can search your house if you open the door and they claim to smell cannabis or see anything related to cannabis. Probable cause via the "plain sight" doctrine, same applies to cannabis odor.
False. If they see contraband through an open door, they can seize it, true...but that doesn't allow them to search the whole house. Plain smell is a whole other thing, though, and the SCOTUS has never upheld a warrantless search of a house based on plain smell doctrine.
The general rule is that a warrant is required to search a residence even if they have probable cause. This is not true of a car, however.
To answer the OPs question, however, a sworn statement from a witness claiming to have seen your marijuana grow is plenty to get a warrant.
Just because SCOTUS "hasn't upheld" something doesn't mean it doesn't happen, that people don't contest it, and that people don't go to jail for it.
You say what you want. If the cops come to your house where they smell weed from outside and they feel like they know you're smoking weed they can kick your door down and arrest you and you will go to jail for it.
Wanna know why? Because cops lie. If they can't say "they smell weed" they'll say something else, like they heard screaming coming from inside thus providing them with a reason to act under "exigent/ emergency circumstances" in which they can claim they thought an emergency was happening, bust open your door without a warrant and arrest you for whatever they find.
I'll be sure to find some documents/articles proving my point once I get around to it. Are you telling me if you open the door and cops smell weed that they can't search because I 100% know that to be false. The only way there might be a HOPE of a chance is if the door is closed because there are so many more variables to work with. Even then you're working with whether or not a judge will utter the phrase "I'll allow it",ad whether or not the victim can hire exorbitantly expensive defense council to get a worthwhile trial and subsequent appeals if (more like when) they're convicted.
Put it like this to you - ANYONE on these boards that will instruct you that you are safe with weed smell inside your home because cops can't come in your house unless you open the door is WRONG and will land your ass in a BOX while they pontificate on what they figure "can and can't" be done in a legal system that's corrupt from the top to the bottom, from the prosecution to the judge to the jury to the defense.
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Grumpyorc
Ghost


Registered: 09/14/09
Posts: 2,041
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
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Re: What would happen if somebody told cops about a grow? [Re: Humility]
#17743983 - 02/04/13 01:50 PM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Humility said:
Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
Humility said: The cops most CERTAINLY can search your house if you open the door and they claim to smell cannabis or see anything related to cannabis. Probable cause via the "plain sight" doctrine, same applies to cannabis odor.
False. If they see contraband through an open door, they can seize it, true...but that doesn't allow them to search the whole house. Plain smell is a whole other thing, though, and the SCOTUS has never upheld a warrantless search of a house based on plain smell doctrine.
The general rule is that a warrant is required to search a residence even if they have probable cause. This is not true of a car, however.
To answer the OPs question, however, a sworn statement from a witness claiming to have seen your marijuana grow is plenty to get a warrant.
Just because SCOTUS "hasn't upheld" something doesn't mean it doesn't happen, that people don't contest it, and that people don't go to jail for it.
You say what you want. If the cops come to your house where they smell weed from outside and they feel like they know you're smoking weed they can kick your door down and arrest you and you will go to jail for it.
Wanna know why? Because cops lie. If they can't say "they smell weed" they'll say something else, like they heard screaming coming from inside thus providing them with a reason to act under "exigent/ emergency circumstances" in which they can claim they thought an emergency was happening, bust open your door without a warrant and arrest you for whatever they find.
I'll be sure to find some documents/articles proving my point once I get around to it. Are you telling me if you open the door and cops smell weed that they can't search because I 100% know that to be false. The only way there might be a HOPE of a chance is if the door is closed because there are so many more variables to work with. Even then you're working with whether or not a judge will utter the phrase "I'll allow it",ad whether or not the victim can hire exorbitantly expensive defense council to get a worthwhile trial and subsequent appeals if (more like when) they're convicted.
Put it like this to you - ANYONE on these boards that will instruct you that you are safe with weed smell inside your home because cops can't come in your house unless you open the door is WRONG and will land your ass in a BOX while they pontificate on what they figure "can and can't" be done in a legal system that's corrupt from the top to the bottom, from the prosecution to the judge to the jury to the defense.
Quoted for fucking truth You may be able to post links to poeople who have beaten the system on legal technicalities but for each of those theres 100 who couldnt afford a lawyer, got stuck with a court appointed and got fucked, or got a lawyer and got fucked anyway +5 to you humility for knowing how the system works
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Jabbawaya

Registered: 07/10/05
Posts: 1,479
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
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Re: What would happen if somebody told cops about a grow? [Re: Grumpyorc]
#17746786 - 02/04/13 09:14 PM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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A nice thing about these forums is that it helps people educate themselves on their basic rights, which many didn't know they had. As said so well above, however, in reality, those "rights" are only guidelines that the police don't have to follow. Little things like "entering without a warrant" is not such a big deal to them if they think they can make a huge bust.
As always, "don't sell, never tell," and don't leave shit around the house that a landlord or repair guy could see when they enter your house without your permission because: they see smoke / have to fix a flood / your fire alarm is going off for no reason / your dog is barking nonstop / someone broke into your house when you were away.
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Anonymous #2
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Re: What would happen if somebody told cops about a grow? [Re: Humility]
#17749243 - 02/05/13 12:26 PM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Humility said: Wanna know why? Because cops lie. If they can't say "they smell weed" they'll say something else, like they heard screaming coming from inside thus providing them with a reason to act under "exigent/ emergency circumstances" in which they can claim they thought an emergency was happening, bust open your door without a warrant and arrest you for whatever they find.
Police were trying to bust my weed dealer for months. Eventually they waited and waited and waited - he was watching a scary movie and police claimed they heard a female begging for mercy and being murdered. Popped the door, got him from plain sight (bowl on the table) and searched the residence to be sure another female wasn't getting murdered. It's some bull-fucking-shit, I feel bad for the guy, he was a good friend, didn't deserve this. Shitty way to do this on the cops' end since they could've just done their job properly and not pulled something out of their ass.
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Anonymous #1
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Re: What would happen if somebody told cops about a grow? [Re: Anonymous #2]
#17749277 - 02/05/13 12:33 PM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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Wow, that's some bullshit!
I ended up trashing anything incriminating and probably won't be back on that end of the spectrum again. Thanks
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johnm214


Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: What would happen if somebody told cops about a grow? [Re: Humility]
#17749523 - 02/05/13 01:12 PM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Grumpyorc said:
Quoted for fucking truth You may be able to post links to poeople who have beaten the system on legal technicalities but for each of those theres 100 who couldnt afford a lawyer, got stuck with a court appointed and got fucked, or got a lawyer and got fucked anyway +5 to you humility for knowing how the system works
You said a warantless search of a residence due to smell of marijuana was a valid search that would hold up in court. When this is challenged you switch the discussion to what cops can get away with or some horseshit about what a public defender will be able to accomplish.
You misrepresented the law to people and are now trying to weasel out of it by moving the goalposts.
Quote:
Humility said: john - I think grumpy and you are disagreeing based on a misunderstanding.
Yes, he doesn't know what he's talking about and is conflating the issue of reasonableness with probable cause. He's also conflating the reasonableness of a warantless motor vehicle search with that of a warantless residence search.
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Grumpyorc
Ghost


Registered: 09/14/09
Posts: 2,041
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
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Re: What would happen if somebody told cops about a grow? [Re: johnm214]
#17752793 - 02/05/13 10:18 PM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
johnm214 said:
Quote:
Grumpyorc said:
Quoted for fucking truth You may be able to post links to poeople who have beaten the system on legal technicalities but for each of those theres 100 who couldnt afford a lawyer, got stuck with a court appointed and got fucked, or got a lawyer and got fucked anyway +5 to you humility for knowing how the system works
You said a warantless search of a residence due to smell of marijuana was a valid search that would hold up in court. When this is challenged you switch the discussion to what cops can get away with or some horseshit about what a public defender will be able to accomplish.
You misrepresented the law to people and are now trying to weasel out of it by moving the goalposts.
Quote:
Humility said: john - I think grumpy and you are disagreeing based on a misunderstanding.
Yes, he doesn't know what he's talking about and is conflating the issue of reasonableness with probable cause. He's also conflating the reasonableness of a warantless motor vehicle search with that of a warantless residence search.
You seem to think the police see the law as a set of rules to follow, when infact they see them as obsticales to get around. If the cops come into your house because they think you have shit (which they will) and they find shit, its holding up in court. Its VERY rare that a judge throws out a case because the police didnt have probable cause of a proper warrent. You just think they do because you always hear about the winners, but like I said for every winner there are 100 losers. You were answering the question as someone whos read a lawbook and I answered it as a person who has dealt with them a great deal. Even hinting to someone that they are safe to continue illegal activity despite being exposed is unrealistic and unsafe. I hope if you ever have a run in with them you wont take the same attitude. You seem to see this as some kind of legal debate between you and I and I couldn't care less. You win the argument whatever. My only concern is for the OP and his safety and it seems that he has made the correct desicion. Good job OP, good luck on your future covert activities.
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johnm214


Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: What would happen if somebody told cops about a grow? [Re: Grumpyorc]
#17753027 - 02/05/13 10:55 PM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Grumpyorc said:
You seem to think the police see the law as a set of rules to follow, when infact they see them as obsticales to get around.
Strawman. I explicitly referred to the law rather than what police will do. Again you move the goalposts to extraneous issues. I only took issue with your claim that a warantless search of a residence due to smelling marijuana is constitutional.
Quote:
You just think they do because you always hear about the winners, but like I said for every winner there are 100 losers. You were answering the question as someone whos read a lawbook and I answered it as a person who has dealt with them a great deal.
I've never read a lawbook. All my knowledge comes from reading decisions.
Quote:
Even hinting to someone that they are safe to continue illegal activity despite being exposed is unrealistic and unsafe. I hope if you ever have a run in with them you wont take the same attitude.
\
Please indicate where I advised anyone to continue illegal behavior. I simply corrected your false statements on the law.
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Grumpyorc
Ghost


Registered: 09/14/09
Posts: 2,041
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
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Re: What would happen if somebody told cops about a grow? [Re: johnm214]
#17753116 - 02/05/13 11:07 PM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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Fine, a warrentless search of a home based on the smell of cannabis is unconstitutional. Feel better? That still doesnt mean the cops wont do it and wont get away with it and THATS what mattered to the OP, as he was obviously asking because he was doing something he wasnt supposed to in his house. In practice Im still correct and thats what matters
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johnm214


Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: What would happen if somebody told cops about a grow? [Re: Grumpyorc]
#17753228 - 02/05/13 11:25 PM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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Lieing about the law or misrepresenting it doesn't help the original poster- its not your place to decide when falsehoods are helpful.
You said: >Grumpyorc said: If the cops want you they will just go knock on your door, and when you open it say they smell weed, and search and bust you. its as simple as that and it holds up in court as probable cause. go dark if you think youve been exposed
That's wrong.
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Grumpyorc
Ghost


Registered: 09/14/09
Posts: 2,041
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
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Re: What would happen if somebody told cops about a grow? [Re: Anonymous #2]
#17753393 - 02/05/13 11:56 PM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
johnm214 said: Lieing about the law or misrepresenting it doesn't help the original poster- its not your place to decide when falsehoods are helpful.
You said: >Grumpyorc said: If the cops want you they will just go knock on your door, and when you open it say they smell weed, and search and bust you. its as simple as that and it holds up in court as probable cause. go dark if you think youve been exposed
That's wrong.
thats not wrong because thats whats going to go down. giving the OP a false sense of security is whats not going to help
Quote:
Anonymous said:
Quote:
Humility said: Wanna know why? Because cops lie. If they can't say "they smell weed" they'll say something else, like they heard screaming coming from inside thus providing them with a reason to act under "exigent/ emergency circumstances" in which they can claim they thought an emergency was happening, bust open your door without a warrant and arrest you for whatever they find.
Police were trying to bust my weed dealer for months. Eventually they waited and waited and waited - he was watching a scary movie and police claimed they heard a female begging for mercy and being murdered. Popped the door, got him from plain sight (bowl on the table) and searched the residence to be sure another female wasn't getting murdered. It's some bull-fucking-shit, I feel bad for the guy, he was a good friend, didn't deserve this. Shitty way to do this on the cops' end since they could've just done their job properly and not pulled something out of their ass.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,521
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: What would happen if somebody told cops about a grow? [Re: Grumpyorc]
#17754050 - 02/06/13 04:20 AM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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It's true that most 4th amendment challenges fail in court. It's also true that 4th amendment challenges are routinely made even when the search is clearly legal. In a case like your hypothetical, if the trial court doesn't throw the search out, the appeals court almost certainly will.
You are right agout how the police approach it, though. They don't generally think before they do, and try to justify it later in court. Sometimes, they get away with it...sometimes they don't
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Grumpyorc
Ghost


Registered: 09/14/09
Posts: 2,041
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
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Re: What would happen if somebody told cops about a grow? [Re: Enlil]
#17754071 - 02/06/13 04:30 AM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: It's true that most 4th amendment challenges fail in court. It's also true that 4th amendment challenges are routinely made even when the search is clearly legal. In a case like your hypothetical, if the trial court doesn't throw the search out, the appeals court almost certainly will.
You are right agout how the police approach it, though. They don't generally think before they do, and try to justify it later in court. Sometimes, they get away with it...sometimes they don't
true the appealate court will usually throw stuff like this out if its justified, however here in texas it usually takes anywhere from 4-5 years for them to review your case. and by then your life has been in the garbage for a long time. i imagine the time frame is similar in other states and if you plea out and dont take your case to jury trial you sign away your right to appeal
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AlabamaApe
Mycophile


Registered: 09/06/10
Posts: 120
Loc: Planet Earth
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Re: What would happen if somebody told cops about a grow? [Re: Grumpyorc]
#17767171 - 02/08/13 12:10 PM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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MAKE THEM WORK
sir will you get out of the car?
No way dude, sorry. Who do you think you are? (make them beat you out of car, this will look horrible no matter what is found on you, lawsuit if you are clean)
hey, open the door!
No, sorry officer, feel free to just yell through the window like this, because i don't open my door for strangers and we've never met.
(make them kick in door and look like goombahs)
Hey where did you get these drugs?
What drugs? I don't even know where i am right now, i am confused, who are you? whats your name and badge number? just for the record, oh and here's an attorney's number
Will you sign for this package?
NO, sorry wasn't expecting bro.
-------------------- I like big basidiocarps and i cannot lie, you other enthusiasts can't deny.
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Grumpyorc
Ghost


Registered: 09/14/09
Posts: 2,041
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
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Re: What would happen if somebody told cops about a grow? [Re: AlabamaApe]
#17781361 - 02/11/13 02:02 AM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
AlabamaApe said: MAKE THEM WORK
sir will you get out of the car?
No way dude, sorry. Who do you think you are? (make them beat you out of car, this will look horrible no matter what is found on you, lawsuit if you are clean)
hey, open the door!
No, sorry officer, feel free to just yell through the window like this, because i don't open my door for strangers and we've never met.
(make them kick in door and look like goombahs)
Hey where did you get these drugs?
What drugs? I don't even know where i am right now, i am confused, who are you? whats your name and badge number? just for the record, oh and here's an attorney's number
Will you sign for this package?
NO, sorry wasn't expecting bro.
lol i agree with everything except after they find the drugs. Once they have you busted you need to shut your mouth completly. You could have a defendable case until you say something stupid by accident. But fuck ya make them work to get in for sure
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,521
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: What would happen if somebody told cops about a grow? [Re: AlabamaApe]
#17781552 - 02/11/13 04:23 AM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
AlabamaApe said: MAKE THEM WORK
sir will you get out of the car?
No way dude, sorry. Who do you think you are? (make them beat you out of car, this will look horrible no matter what is found on you, lawsuit if you are clean)
More likely, a resisting arrest charge whether or not you're cleanQuote:
Hey where did you get these drugs?
What drugs? I don't even know where i am right now, i am confused, who are you? whats your name and badge number? just for the record, oh and here's an attorney's number
Please don't ever do this. Your lawyer will have a much harder job for every word you say.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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AlabamaApe
Mycophile


Registered: 09/06/10
Posts: 120
Loc: Planet Earth
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Re: What would happen if somebody told cops about a grow? [Re: Enlil]
#17781897 - 02/11/13 08:08 AM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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I could tell you about my personal experience making cops sad as fuck but i don't want to reveal my identity. Take my word and have a nice day.
-------------------- I like big basidiocarps and i cannot lie, you other enthusiasts can't deny.
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AlabamaApe
Mycophile


Registered: 09/06/10
Posts: 120
Loc: Planet Earth
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Re: What would happen if somebody told cops about a grow? [Re: AlabamaApe]
#17781909 - 02/11/13 08:14 AM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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IF the police are aware you are a pain in the ass whos ass they have to kick to make any variety of even the most basic arrest upon and you can afford a lawyer they will avoid you. Its just the truth. Don't be a menace to society now, but don't be just an easy fuck either. Cops love an easy fuck.
-------------------- I like big basidiocarps and i cannot lie, you other enthusiasts can't deny.
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AlabamaApe
Mycophile


Registered: 09/06/10
Posts: 120
Loc: Planet Earth
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Re: What would happen if somebody told cops about a grow? [Re: AlabamaApe]
#17781927 - 02/11/13 08:22 AM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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Keep it private. If you can't keep it private, you better keep a lawyer on retainer. Take that for what its worth. Nuts like grapefruit cost about 5 grand for a sick legal defense on retainer in most cities. Hell even secure the services of a private investigator and have him investigate your "Friends" and associates, directly counter surveil law enforcement.
-------------------- I like big basidiocarps and i cannot lie, you other enthusiasts can't deny.
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CidneyIndole
www.shroomery.OG



Registered: 05/16/05
Posts: 4,762
Loc: Love's Secret Domain
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Re: What would happen if somebody told cops about a grow? [Re: AlabamaApe]
#17786031 - 02/11/13 09:20 PM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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AlabamaApe said: Hell even secure the services of a private investigator and have him investigate your "Friends" and associates, directly counter surveil law enforcement.
I suppose that could be good advice, in the right situation. However, I'd add the caveat that you should make sure you trust the person you hire... lest they figure out what you're up to and place a tip of their own, or otherwise use it against you. I mean... if you're asking someone who's good at tracking people and digging up shit to start investigating the activities of some of your associates, it's possible they look into you, or at least get an idea of what's up by their activities, then guilt by association, etc... unless you're super quiet, and careful, and/or come up with a good "cover story" for the detective as to who these people are to you, and why you're having them investigated...
...seems like it could be risky, in and of itself, is all....
-------------------- ------------------------ I am me. We are You.
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