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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Racking American Brown Ale to Secondary [Re: parliament666]
    #17597354 - 01/23/13 03:47 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

parliament666 said:
yea id never heard about it shrinking your balls or anything either. I certainly don't want that. What you're saying makes a lot of sense i guess i had just never though of it before.

You're right though i've never seen any microbreweries using any kind of plastic. I think it's about time for an upgrade. It's funny because i'm pretty adamant about not using plastic buckets for fermentation. I give my friends shit about it but the plastic in the mashtun never crossed my mind.




Well that's what I am here for.  So that men can stay men and brew with full sized balls.

Or something like that.

Edited by LunarEclipse (01/23/13 03:50 PM)

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OfflineRiboflavin
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Re: Racking American Brown Ale to Secondary [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #17598618 - 01/23/13 07:24 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

I could only wish that were actually true, small potatoes make the meat look bigger.


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OfflineRiboflavin
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Re: Racking American Brown Ale to Secondary [Re: parliament666]
    #17599626 - 01/23/13 10:31 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

You're right though i've never seen any microbreweries using any kind of plastic. I think it's about time for an upgrade. It's funny because i'm pretty adamant about not using plastic buckets for fermentation. I give my friends shit about it but the plastic in the mashtun never crossed my mind.




Yeah, plastic is far from ideal. A friend who owns a microbrewery still uses his old homebrew set up (igloo cooler and all) for homebrew style pilot batches, but for durability I imagine a metal mash tun (not even bringing up stainless versus aluminum lol) can take a lot more abuse, be heated for step mashes and maintain temp in colder climates with heat applied (was -13f here the other day). However, if you have something that's advertised as bpa free, it's probably bpa free, not to say that that the plastic isn't going to have something dangerous discovered about it in the future, but papazian is still alive and kicking right? Though upon further thought, I highly doubt he still uses a cooler. :grin:


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Edited by Riboflavin (01/23/13 10:33 PM)

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InvisibleToolTroll
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Re: Racking American Brown Ale to Secondary [Re: parliament666]
    #17599770 - 01/23/13 11:02 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Why are plastic fermenters frowned upon? These are food-grade buckets I'm using.


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OfflineRiboflavin
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Re: Racking American Brown Ale to Secondary [Re: ToolTroll]
    #17599849 - 01/23/13 11:26 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

I don't personally disapprove, they are a bit more permeable to oxygen, and can get scratched a lot easier when cleaning allowing a place for germs to hide. I've made good beer in buckets, but from what I've heard you are supposed to replace them every so often due to scratching. I've gone back to glass lately just because I trust it more. Dad uses buckets like they are going out of style and consistently makes good beer.


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Edited by Riboflavin (01/23/13 11:28 PM)

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InvisibleOeric McKenna
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Re: Racking American Brown Ale to Secondary [Re: Riboflavin]
    #17599918 - 01/23/13 11:42 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Good job man.
  I like to dry hop the browns. American glacier in the secondary.


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Racking American Brown Ale to Secondary [Re: Riboflavin]
    #17600883 - 01/24/13 06:38 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Riboflavin said:
I don't personally disapprove, they are a bit more permeable to oxygen, and can get scratched a lot easier when cleaning allowing a place for germs to hide. I've made good beer in buckets, but from what I've heard you are supposed to replace them every so often due to scratching. I've gone back to glass lately just because I trust it more. Dad uses buckets like they are going out of style and consistently makes good beer.



Quote:

Riboflavin said:
You're right though i've never seen any microbreweries using any kind of plastic. I think it's about time for an upgrade. It's funny because i'm pretty adamant about not using plastic buckets for fermentation. I give my friends shit about it but the plastic in the mashtun never crossed my mind.




Yeah, plastic is far from ideal. A friend who owns a microbrewery still uses his old homebrew set up (igloo cooler and all) for homebrew style pilot batches, but for durability I imagine a metal mash tun (not even bringing up stainless versus aluminum lol) can take a lot more abuse, be heated for step mashes and maintain temp in colder climates with heat applied (was -13f here the other day). However, if you have something that's advertised as bpa free, it's probably bpa free, not to say that that the plastic isn't going to have something dangerous discovered about it in the future, but papazian is still alive and kicking right? Though upon further thought, I highly doubt he still uses a cooler. :grin:




Charlie P probably still uses his plastic cooler.  Denny sure does.  My main local competitor still does as well as most others in the club.

For your consideration (small beans don't make the meat look bigger lol)

http://www.niehs.nih.gov/health/topics/agents/endocrine/index.cfm


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Offlineparliament666
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Re: Racking American Brown Ale to Secondary [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #17607627 - 01/25/13 08:10 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

I just remembered this brewery here in town uses plastic conicals. It's the only place i've ever seen this. Thoughts?



It shows their fermenters 1:50

They just opened earlier this year and have some pretty good beers.  I've seen their brewery aside from this video and it's like a much larger homebrew setup. They were pretty well known in the local homebrewing community and won a number of competitions before opening their pub. They have a watermelon beer that's insanely good.

Edited by parliament666 (01/25/13 08:14 AM)

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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Racking American Brown Ale to Secondary [Re: parliament666]
    #17610033 - 01/25/13 04:40 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

parliament666 said:
I just remembered this brewery here in town uses plastic conicals. It's the only place i've ever seen this. Thoughts?



It shows their fermenters 1:50

They just opened earlier this year and have some pretty good beers.  I've seen their brewery aside from this video and it's like a much larger homebrew setup. They were pretty well known in the local homebrewing community and won a number of competitions before opening their pub. They have a watermelon beer that's insanely good.




Link didn't work for me.

Check this out.  Something like this?

http://www.northchautauquahomebrewers.com/ferment/ferment.htm

But I must say one of the largest local breweries is using all plastic kegs now.  Too many stainless ones get stolen by homebrewers.  So apparently we have yet to see plastic as a brew kettle.  Thank God for small favors.  That will be next some heat resistant lightweight composite with aluminum and kevlar or ceramics who knows.


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OfflineHeffy
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Re: Racking American Brown Ale to Secondary [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #17612782 - 01/26/13 06:19 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Your recipe looks good other than pellet hops suck in flavor and scumminess and probably have added to your trub.

Get some Cascade leaf or whatever other by the pound and foodsaver them into individual vac packed to flatten and protect then back into the foil pound bag and back into the freezer.  They will last two years this way easy.





Pretty much totally disagree, pellet hops are vastly superior to whole cone.


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OfflineHeffy
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Re: Racking American Brown Ale to Secondary [Re: Heffy]
    #17612792 - 01/26/13 06:30 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Second - You really don't need a starter.  What you should have used is one pack of dry yeast Safeale US-05.  Starters are completely unnecessary with this yeast and it's the same one as the Wyeast 1056.  Cheaper, better (just sprinkle it in at the end on top do NOT rehydrate or dick with any starters please trust me I have used that yeast 25X or more




Using a starter is better than not using a starter. It's true that you do not need a starter with dried yeast (you also do not need to oxygenate dried yeasts), but there is really no reason to discourage him from using a starter, as it is a good practice. It will also save you large sums of money if you implement some basic yeast handling procedures. Re-cultured yeast is free, hence cheaper than dry.

Quote:

Fifth - Yeast nutrient completely unnecessary and adds a nasty ammonia note.  Don't waste your money.  You make mead next throw in a tsp. per 5 gallons where you need it.



There are so many different varieties of yeast nutrient I don't know how you could possibly assign a specific off flavour to yeast nutrients in general. Having said that, using an appropriate yeast nutrient will give you a lower final AE, as the yeast will be able to stay active longer. If you want a very dry beer I would recommend yeast nutrient.


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I am the king of Rome, and above grammar! - Emperor Sigismund

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OfflineRiboflavin
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Re: Racking American Brown Ale to Secondary [Re: Heffy]
    #17613071 - 01/26/13 08:55 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

I used to hear starters recommended all the time, but with dry yeast lately the word from folks like Chris White and Jamil Zainsheff (they wrote a great book together specifically on yeast) seems to just recommend rehydration.

"Some exciting work has been done on dry yeast lately. Reports are coming in of better quality, cleaner dry yeast. Personally, I really prefer the liquid yeasts, but the lure of dry yeast is strong. The biggest benefit is that it is cheap and does not require a starter. In fact, with most dry yeasts, placing them in a starter would just deplete the reserves that the yeast manufacturer worked so hard to build into the yeast. Most dry yeast has an average cell density of 20 billion cells per gram. You would need about 9.5 grams of dry yeast if you were pitching into 5.5 gallons of 1.048 wort to get the proper cell counts. (Recently there have been other numbers mentioned for cells/gram of dry yeast and folks have asked me why I believe there are 20 billion cells. I've actually done cell counts on dry yeast and they're always 20 billion per gram +/- less than a billion. Dr. Clayton Cone has also stated that there are 20 billion per gram, and other folks I trust tell me that 20 billion is correct. Until I see something different, practical experience tells me this number is correct.) For dry yeasts, just do a proper rehydration in tap water, do not do a starter."

source http://www.mrmalty.com/pitching.php


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InvisibleOeric McKenna
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Re: Racking American Brown Ale to Secondary [Re: Riboflavin]
    #17614235 - 01/26/13 02:47 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

I use muntons dry for most standard ales yeast.
Medium attenuation for good body. Medium flocculatin for good a head.

Of course though, I love the belgian liquid yeasts too!

For standard ales & fruit beers I always hit the muntons tho.


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Racking American Brown Ale to Secondary [Re: Heffy]
    #17617506 - 01/27/13 03:35 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Heffy said:
Quote:

Your recipe looks good other than pellet hops suck in flavor and scumminess and probably have added to your trub.

Get some Cascade leaf or whatever other by the pound and foodsaver them into individual vac packed to flatten and protect then back into the foil pound bag and back into the freezer.  They will last two years this way easy.





Pretty much totally disagree, pellet hops are vastly superior to whole cone.




Pellet hops suck.  That is all. 

Vastly superior to leaf hops?  What?  They process leaf hops smash them up and extrude them to make pellet hops.  The only superior thing about them is they are cheaper and take up less space.  Next you will tell me how much better they store.  Bullshit.  Vac pack the leaf hops, keep them out of light, and they last two years.

Use what you want dude you are wrong but that's fine.


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Racking American Brown Ale to Secondary [Re: Heffy]
    #17617518 - 01/27/13 03:53 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Heffy said:
Quote:

Second - You really don't need a starter.  What you should have used is one pack of dry yeast Safeale US-05.  Starters are completely unnecessary with this yeast and it's the same one as the Wyeast 1056.  Cheaper, better (just sprinkle it in at the end on top do NOT rehydrate or dick with any starters please trust me I have used that yeast 25X or more




Using a starter is better than not using a starter. It's true that you do not need a starter with dried yeast (you also do not need to oxygenate dried yeasts), but there is really no reason to discourage him from using a starter, as it is a good practice. It will also save you large sums of money if you implement some basic yeast handling procedures. Re-cultured yeast is free, hence cheaper than dry.

Quote:

Fifth - Yeast nutrient completely unnecessary and adds a nasty ammonia note.  Don't waste your money.  You make mead next throw in a tsp. per 5 gallons where you need it.



There are so many different varieties of yeast nutrient I don't know how you could possibly assign a specific off flavour to yeast nutrients in general. Having said that, using an appropriate yeast nutrient will give you a lower final AE, as the yeast will be able to stay active longer. If you want a very dry beer I would recommend yeast nutrient.




Using a starter particularly with such an active dry yeast as US-05 is completely unnecessary and a waste of time and money.  If you want to reuse the yeast by going over top of it or washing it great.  But the notion you need a starter with US-05 is just plain wrong.

You throw the yeast on top after you shake your carboy.  It is the recommended procedure by Safeale and says this on the package.  There are WAY more yeast cells in dry yeast packs than a Wyeast Smack pack.  They are often more viable because dry yeast also stores longer and better than a smack pack.

If you are making a huge beer that calls for an ale yeast, add two packs of the US-05.

If you are making a lager, you may need a starter with your lager yeast.

As for adding yeast nutrient to beer, it is not necessary.  Why do it?  Bullshit to your claim that it will give a lower end gravity too.  The beer has all the nutrients the yeast need, and they will reproduce and ferment it as long as they can regardless of if you add some yeast nutrient.  Some yeasts will attenuate lower that is more based on the yeast itself than on a starter.


The yeast nutrient powder I have smells like ammonia, and that's because it has some ammonia based compound in it.  If you really think it's worth figuring out other unneeded yeast nutrients to add to beer that don't smell like that, then go for it!  But don't try to convince people you need yeast nutrients for beer when it is not correct.


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OfflineHeffy
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Re: Racking American Brown Ale to Secondary [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #17630661 - 01/29/13 05:55 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

LunarEclipse said:
Quote:

Heffy said:
Quote:

Your recipe looks good other than pellet hops suck in flavor and scumminess and probably have added to your trub.

Get some Cascade leaf or whatever other by the pound and foodsaver them into individual vac packed to flatten and protect then back into the foil pound bag and back into the freezer.  They will last two years this way easy.





Pretty much totally disagree, pellet hops are vastly superior to whole cone.




Pellet hops suck.  That is all. 

Vastly superior to leaf hops?  What?  They process leaf hops smash them up and extrude them to make pellet hops.  The only superior thing about them is they are cheaper and take up less space.  Next you will tell me how much better they store.  Bullshit.  Vac pack the leaf hops, keep them out of light, and they last two years.

Use what you want dude you are wrong but that's fine.




Pellet hops store better, store longer, provide higher utilization, decrease wort losses, and are less likely to be contaminated. I am not "just wrong". Most brewers use pellet hops because they are better. I suppose you'll tell me that you prefer whole hops because they "taste better' ( a completely subjective qualitative criteria), but I would bet money that you couldn't pick two otherwise identical beers apart.

Quote:

Using a starter particularly with such an active dry yeast as US-05 is completely unnecessary and a waste of time and money.  If you want to reuse the yeast by going over top of it or washing it great.  But the notion you need a starter with US-05 is just plain wrong.





He is not using US-05. Did you read his recipe?


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Edited by Heffy (01/29/13 05:58 PM)

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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Racking American Brown Ale to Secondary [Re: Heffy]
    #17633508 - 01/30/13 05:45 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Heffy said:
Quote:

LunarEclipse said:
Quote:

Heffy said:
Quote:

Your recipe looks good other than pellet hops suck in flavor and scumminess and probably have added to your trub.

Get some Cascade leaf or whatever other by the pound and foodsaver them into individual vac packed to flatten and protect then back into the foil pound bag and back into the freezer.  They will last two years this way easy.





Pretty much totally disagree, pellet hops are vastly superior to whole cone.




Pellet hops suck.  That is all. 

Vastly superior to leaf hops?  What?  They process leaf hops smash them up and extrude them to make pellet hops.  The only superior thing about them is they are cheaper and take up less space.  Next you will tell me how much better they store.  Bullshit.  Vac pack the leaf hops, keep them out of light, and they last two years.

Use what you want dude you are wrong but that's fine.




Pellet hops store better, store longer, provide higher utilization, decrease wort losses, and are less likely to be contaminated. I am not "just wrong". Most brewers use pellet hops because they are better. I suppose you'll tell me that you prefer whole hops because they "taste better' ( a completely subjective qualitative criteria), but I would bet money that you couldn't pick two otherwise identical beers apart.

Quote:

Using a starter particularly with such an active dry yeast as US-05 is completely unnecessary and a waste of time and money.  If you want to reuse the yeast by going over top of it or washing it great.  But the notion you need a starter with US-05 is just plain wrong.





He is not using US-05. Did you read his recipe?




Check out my avatar.  Left side is cup won with an American IPA in a BJCP judged event with a 48 out of 50 score.  Second place was a 36.5.  Used leaf hops and US-05.  Cup in middle is cup won with an American Barleywine.  Scored average of 44 out of 50 in a BJCP judged event.  Used leaf hops and US-05.  Second place was a 35 by a professional brewer.  Other brewers used pellet hops and starters.  I used leaf hops and no starters. 

On the right side of the avatar is this years future winner.  Guess what?  Leaf hops and US-05.  No starter.  American stout.

So it's not up to me as to what is subjectively better although I can taste the differences even if you think I can't.  But it's up to the judges.  Do you think they can't taste a great beer from a not so great beer?

So you can talk all day long about what you think is better.  I win contests in BJCP judged events.  Do you?

Edited by LunarEclipse (01/30/13 06:03 AM)

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Re: Racking American Brown Ale to Secondary [Re: LunarEclipse] * 2
    #17634213 - 01/30/13 10:03 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

LunarEclipse said:

Check out my avatar.  Left side is cup won with an American IPA in a BJCP judged event with a 48 out of 50 score.  Second place was a 36.5.  Used leaf hops and US-05.  Cup in middle is cup won with an American Barleywine.  Scored average of 44 out of 50 in a BJCP judged event.  Used leaf hops and US-05.  Second place was a 35 by a professional brewer.  Other brewers used pellet hops and starters.  I used leaf hops and no starters. 




Hey, LunarEclipse, we get it. You like to enter events. You even do well in them. Congrats. We are so happy for you. Clearly you have found something that works for you. I notice though that all three of the tastey beverages you offered as examples are 'Americans'. I'm glad you like Americans. I'm glad people you've shared with like Americans. However, not all beer is an 'American'. In fact, not even all good beer is an 'American'.

So please, stop thumping your chest. If you can provide experimental evidence (not anecdotal evidence from your extremely small sample size) to verify your claims, I'd love to hear it. Even contributing your personal experiences is fine, but please do not claim them as absolute fact. Unless and until you have submitted your beers for review on a national or global scale and consistently been acclaimed as Messiah to homebrewers your experience does not trump all other knowledge.

Thanks bro.

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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Racking American Brown Ale to Secondary [Re: necrosxiaoban]
    #17642704 - 01/31/13 10:39 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

necrosxiaoban said:
Quote:

LunarEclipse said:

Check out my avatar.  Left side is cup won with an American IPA in a BJCP judged event with a 48 out of 50 score.  Second place was a 36.5.  Used leaf hops and US-05.  Cup in middle is cup won with an American Barleywine.  Scored average of 44 out of 50 in a BJCP judged event.  Used leaf hops and US-05.  Second place was a 35 by a professional brewer.  Other brewers used pellet hops and starters.  I used leaf hops and no starters. 




Hey, LunarEclipse, we get it. You like to enter events. You even do well in them. Congrats. We are so happy for you. Clearly you have found something that works for you. I notice though that all three of the tastey beverages you offered as examples are 'Americans'. I'm glad you like Americans. I'm glad people you've shared with like Americans. However, not all beer is an 'American'. In fact, not even all good beer is an 'American'.

So please, stop thumping your chest. If you can provide experimental evidence (not anecdotal evidence from your extremely small sample size) to verify your claims, I'd love to hear it. Even contributing your personal experiences is fine, but please do not claim them as absolute fact. Unless and until you have submitted your beers for review on a national or global scale and consistently been acclaimed as Messiah to homebrewers your experience does not trump all other knowledge.

Thanks bro.




Oh you are welcome pellet hop man with a filter for clarity.  Makes sense.

LOL.  The American part happens to be sub styles.  Any BJCP category is fine.  Why, do you have a problem with America and Americans?  You sound like you might.


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OfflineHeffy
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Re: Racking American Brown Ale to Secondary [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #17677254 - 01/31/13 03:41 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

:rofl2:
It's hilarious that you think you can talk down to me because you won some regional homebrewing competitions.

I'm a certified master brewer, I work in the R&D department of a large brewery.

People brewing with pellets win homebrewing competitions all the time.
Breweries using pellets also win at the WBC and GABF all the time.
You are wrong. Most professional taste panels cannot distinguish between otherwise identical beers, brewed with pellets vs cones from the same batch.


--------------------
I am the king of Rome, and above grammar! - Emperor Sigismund

Edited by Heffy (01/31/13 06:12 PM)

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