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Shop: PhytoExtractum Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Empirical Subjectivity * 1
    #17583040 - 01/21/13 01:19 AM (11 years, 28 days ago)

Empirical + Subjective, refers to life in general and anything which pertains to life.

In my observation this is one of the most common philisophical assumptions, that everything in life is subjective based on perception. Most people I've personally known and communicated with in dephth, seem to adhere to this assumption.

I completely disagree. Perception filters itself, but objective reality is there regardless. Ever hear of someone who thought they could fly and jumped off a building? Their perception was invalid, objective reality was not changed. Whatever anyone's opinion is, mine or yours, reality is objective. The cause of the universe and life in it, is not subject to our interpretation just because we do not know it as a fact - it happened one way regardless of our ignorance or belief in another way.

Thoughts?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Empirical Subjectivity [Re: Repertoire89]
    #17583429 - 01/21/13 05:23 AM (11 years, 28 days ago)

I think you'd find a fair amount of agreement here in this forum.  I "act" as if there is an objective reality no matter what my actual thoughts or suspicions might be.  In other words I think it's a question that cannot be answered with the tools I have.  That covers it all for me.


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (01/21/13 05:24 AM)


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InvisibleMr Person
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Re: Empirical Subjectivity [Re: Icelander] * 1
    #17583818 - 01/21/13 08:56 AM (11 years, 27 days ago)

I think some sort of objective reality probably exists, although likely not at all in the form that we perceive it. In fact I think it's probably so different in character from what we experience that it's not even helpful to consider our reality objective.  But for purposes of daily living I "play along".


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Empirical Subjectivity [Re: Repertoire89]
    #17584020 - 01/21/13 09:42 AM (11 years, 27 days ago)

The Emperor Strikes Back



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Anxiety is what you make it.


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: Empirical Subjectivity [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #17585526 - 01/21/13 02:37 PM (11 years, 27 days ago)

Well I definitely agree that objective reality is or would be different than what is commonly perceived, there are over 1b Christians and they disagree amongst themselves. The Tanakh couldn't be further from observable truth as far as I'm aware from experience + deductive reasoning.

My own perspective has changed and evolved drastically. This is why a lot of people buy into the idea of subjectivity, its a useful social tool and rule of thumb in communication, but philisophically I view it as a logical fallacy


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Empirical Subjectivity [Re: Repertoire89]
    #17587468 - 01/21/13 08:56 PM (11 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

Repertoire89 said:

Thoughts?




My first thought is that empirical and subjective are mutually exclusive spheres of existence.


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Empirical Subjectivity [Re: teknix]
    #17587474 - 01/21/13 08:57 PM (11 years, 27 days ago)

Empirically objective or chaotically subjective.


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: Empirical Subjectivity [Re: teknix]
    #17587970 - 01/21/13 10:15 PM (11 years, 27 days ago)

Not sure if subjectivity necessitates chaos, interesting thought


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InvisibleMr Person
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Re: Empirical Subjectivity [Re: Repertoire89]
    #17588016 - 01/21/13 10:25 PM (11 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

Repertoire89 said:

My own perspective has changed and evolved drastically. This is why a lot of people buy into the idea of subjectivity, its a useful social tool and rule of thumb in communication, but philisophically I view it as a logical fallacy




I find the philosophical idea of consciousness creating reality pretty dubious at best, but there's really no way to be 100% sure either way.  All I can say is that humans evolved to perceive such a narrow slice of reality that even with science we have still not reached a broad enough awareness of reality to make any of our observations "objective".


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: Empirical Subjectivity [Re: Mr Person]
    #17588047 - 01/21/13 10:34 PM (11 years, 27 days ago)

Well I disagree, only to the extent that we as a society know. In my own naivete, I find this world strange enough in the first place to give merit to the idea that objective reality is observable without anything one isn't born with. Meaning without tools or society


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Empirical Subjectivity [Re: Repertoire89]
    #17589970 - 01/22/13 12:07 PM (11 years, 26 days ago)

Objective means, it's the same for everyone.
Subjective means, it can be different for anyone.
This difference can be objectively (for all to agree) studied.
:shrug:


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Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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OfflineNetDiver
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Re: Empirical Subjectivity [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #17590750 - 01/22/13 02:27 PM (11 years, 26 days ago)

It's meaningless to say something exists when you can not know anything about it, nor measure it in any way.

This pertains also to "objective reality."


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Empirical Subjectivity [Re: NetDiver]
    #17602149 - 01/24/13 11:53 AM (11 years, 24 days ago)

Yes, that's why objective (empirical) reality means that it's provable to everyone.


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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