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shaggyp
California Hottboi



Registered: 12/27/12
Posts: 454
Last seen: 1 month, 19 days
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Ordering on Amazon?
#17600934 - 01/24/13 06:56 AM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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So I ordered a new pressure cooker and 12 mason jars on Amazon (I had credit on my account from trade-ins)
I didn't think much of it at the time, but then I got an email suggesting that I might be interested in rice flour and verm. 
Now, I guess I'm old fashioned. My grandma was in to canning and preserves or whatever, so I figured those 2 items would be harmless to order from a site like Amazon.
I also have spores on the way from Canada (I should mention I live in California) being sent to the same address I intended on using for my experiments.
Would you guys worry? Does anyone know of a single instance in which ordering spores or equipment alone led to a raid? I know a lot about how marijuana raids are conducted in this state (My girlfriend's dad investigates grows for a living and turns the info over to the cops, haha, so I know all about how they find them), but this is somewhat different territory.
I've thought about moving them to another location, but would prefer not to. It just wouldn't be convenient, so would only be an option if there's some solid reason to worry.
-------------------- Burt Cocaine
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist

Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,392
Last seen: 2 days, 22 hours
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Re: Ordering on Amazon? [Re: shaggyp]
#17601220 - 01/24/13 09:02 AM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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Hahaha that's awesome. No, you shouldn't worry. It just happens that people who like pressure cookers and jars also often buy BRF and verm.
What can you tell us about how they find marijuana grows in California?
If your girlfriend's dad turns the info over to the cops, but isn't one, who does he work for?
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shaggyp
California Hottboi



Registered: 12/27/12
Posts: 454
Last seen: 1 month, 19 days
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He works for SMUD, the local municipal utility district.
I also used to buy weed from the son of a Sac County Sheriff, so I've heard about it from that angle, too.
Basically, the Sheriffs get tipped off if you steal power from your neighbors. This accounts for most of the busts in Sac County. His official job description is to investigate power theft, but that's only partially true. They don't really give a shit about power theft unless a grow is involved, and the employees have little competitions to see who can sniff out the biggest weed grows.
Now, while he also investigates power spikes (Your bill triples in one month...), this information is rarely turned over to the police unless it's SUPER significant, and usually ignored by the police unless you're a person of interest.
The irony is that I've heard people recommend stealing power as a way to cover up spikes in your power usage. Not only is this unethical, that's the fastest way to get raided.
-------------------- Burt Cocaine
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Maharishi_2_U
Opt Out Super Fag


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 6,316
Loc: The Streets
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
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Re: Ordering on Amazon? [Re: shaggyp]
#17602919 - 01/24/13 02:31 PM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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Bullshit. Power theft is one of California's biggest fiscal problems. Anyone stupid enough to steal power to grow pot, especially in Cali is an idiot and needs to be shot. One of the first rules to indoor grow is tell noone, second is pay your power bill on time, everytime. The power company could give a fuck about pot, get in their pocket and you are fucked. It is a disgrace to indoor growers everywhere, making them look more criminal. As far as your amazon account. No worries as mentioned above, I'd be concerned with spores coming in illegally over an international border if I were you.  Good luck. :-)
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shaggyp
California Hottboi



Registered: 12/27/12
Posts: 454
Last seen: 1 month, 19 days
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Well, hopefully I shouldn't have a problem with that since spores are not illegal in the USA, and in California they are only illegal if you plan to cultivate them. I intend on comparing the spores with local species of the same genus under a microscope.
Does anyone know if people have actually been prosecuted for having spores sent in to California? I can't find any current information, just that as of 10 years ago there was nobody prosecuted for spores.
-------------------- Burt Cocaine
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johnm214


Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Ordering on Amazon? [Re: shaggyp]
#17604257 - 01/24/13 05:53 PM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
shaggyp said: Well, hopefully I shouldn't have a problem with that since spores are not illegal in the USA, and in California they are only illegal if you plan to cultivate them. I intend on comparing the spores with local species of the same genus under a microscope.
What does that have to do with anything? Don't confuse the elements of an offense with probable cause. They don't need to prove you committed a crime to arrest you or get a search warrant.
Quote:
Does anyone know if people have actually been prosecuted for having spores sent in to California? I can't find any current information, just that as of 10 years ago there was nobody prosecuted for spores.
Probably. Since everyone seems to admit their guilt or substantial elements of the offense, the intent part probably isn't too relevant. In most cases a knock and talk would suffice.
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shaggyp
California Hottboi



Registered: 12/27/12
Posts: 454
Last seen: 1 month, 19 days
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Re: Ordering on Amazon? [Re: johnm214]
#17604483 - 01/24/13 06:22 PM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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Now you're not making sense bro, why would a search warrant matter to me? I don't have anything illegal in my house, and I'm not cultivating magic mushrooms.
You're talking about people who get busted for cultivation, which I've been clear, I'm not doing. Quote:
johnm214 said:
What does that have to do with anything? Don't confuse the elements of an offense with probable cause. They don't need to prove you committed a crime to arrest you or get a search warrant.
Respectfully, it has everything to do with everything. I'm not growing mycelium, and I don't intend to, so if they seize it then... they'll come to my house and won't find anything. I'm not asking if people get busted for cultivation (I know it's illegal), I'm asking if people really get prosecuted for having spores, and how do they prosecute (how is intent established if no myclelium is present?)
Quote:
Probably. Since everyone seems to admit their guilt or substantial elements of the offense, the intent part probably isn't too relevant. In most cases a knock and talk would suffice.
Do you know of specific cases where people were investigated after being sent spores in the mail, and the outcome of those cases? I'm having a hard time finding anything.
-------------------- Burt Cocaine
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johnm214


Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Ordering on Amazon? [Re: shaggyp]
#17604949 - 01/24/13 07:21 PM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
shaggyp said: Now you're not making sense bro, why would a search warrant matter to me? I don't have anything illegal in my house, and I'm not cultivating magic mushrooms.
You're talking about people who get busted for cultivation, which I've been clear, I'm not doing.
A search warrant would matter because it results in inconvienance, hassle, wrecked houses, property damage, dead people/pets in some cases, and seized goods. This may all occur regardless of whether a crime has been committed or PC for that crime is found in the search.
Quote:
Quote:
johnm214 said:
What does that have to do with anything? Don't confuse the elements of an offense with probable cause. They don't need to prove you committed a crime to arrest you or get a search warrant.
Respectfully, it has everything to do with everything. I'm not growing mycelium, and I don't intend to, so if they seize it then... they'll come to my house and won't find anything. I'm not asking if people get busted for cultivation (I know it's illegal), I'm asking if people really get prosecuted for having spores, and how do they prosecute (how is intent established if no myclelium is present?)
Attempt can be the charge, as can drug paraphernalia in many states. Both require intent be proved, with drug paraphernalia/criminal tools actually criminalizing the syringe itself if the other elements are met.
Spores alone aren't generally criminal, but then that's an unrealistic situation. There's always more evidence, especially the words of the accused, so it can be a bit misleading to say a simple 'no'.
Quote:
Quote:
Probably. Since everyone seems to admit their guilt or substantial elements of the offense, the intent part probably isn't too relevant. In most cases a knock and talk would suffice.
Do you know of specific cases where people were investigated after being sent spores in the mail, and the outcome of those cases? I'm having a hard time finding anything.
No, sorry. My guess is it happens most often with roomates/juveniles/false addresses.
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shaggyp
California Hottboi



Registered: 12/27/12
Posts: 454
Last seen: 1 month, 19 days
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Re: Ordering on Amazon? [Re: johnm214]
#17605015 - 01/24/13 07:32 PM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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So do you know of any specific cases where people have been charged with paraphernalia or attempt for only the syringes? Because I feel like you're not understanding clearly. There's no evidence of a crime here, unless the spore syringes themselves are enough physical evidence to prove intent.
So I'm asking if there is a case, a specific case, where spore syringes have been used as evidence for a prosecution. Otherwise, why are you saying this? Speculation?
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johnm214


Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Ordering on Amazon? [Re: shaggyp]
#17605471 - 01/24/13 08:28 PM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
shaggyp said: So do you know of any specific cases where people have been charged with paraphernalia or attempt for only the syringes?
I allready said the syringe enough is not sufficient- you seem to be missing the point. It is never "just the syringe"- other evidence exists too. Some jerkoff from the state police will come down and give testimony about how syringes are used in his extensive experience, you'll say something, you're computer will have evidence on it, et cet.
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Because I feel like you're not understanding clearly. There's no evidence of a crime here, unless the spore syringes themselves are enough physical evidence to prove intent.
That's a question of fact, not law. Whether a given set of objects and circumstances establishes intent is up to the jury.
Obviously a syringe itself is insufficient, but that doesn't mean that just finding the syringe and nothing else in your possesion can't get you convicted based on the other evidence.
Quote:
So I'm asking if there is a case, a specific case, where spore syringes have been used as evidence for a prosecution. Otherwise, why are you saying this? Speculation?
I don't know of a specific case where a crack pipe was used to convict someone of paraphernalia- but that doesn't mean its speculation to look at the statute and note a crack pipe and syringe alike can be paraphernalia.
I don't know the details of any mushroom prosecution except a bit I read on fanaticus, and I'm sure spore syringes were evidence in that case.
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shaggyp
California Hottboi



Registered: 12/27/12
Posts: 454
Last seen: 1 month, 19 days
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Re: Ordering on Amazon? [Re: johnm214]
#17605741 - 01/24/13 09:12 PM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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Haha, that doesn't make sense. It doesn't matter if there isn't other evidence because they'll find other evidence? There is no other evidence. That's the situation, just accept it.
Also, I can point you to cases that illustrate that kind of law in California. Glass pipes for weed have limited legality that would take several references to fully illustrate, but basically it's legal until you smoke weed out of it or say the word "weed".
Certain styles of pipe are not legal, and here's a case of a man being charged for drug paraphernalia for having clean glass freebase pipes: http://watsonville.patch.com/articles/discount-store-busted-for-selling-meth-pipes
In general how a law has been interpreted/prosecuted in the past (esp by higher courts) will dictate the future. That's why in law school you not only read litigation, but then study specific relevant cases where these matters have been previously decided. If you're caught with the same evidence as someone who WAS convicted, you'll likely be convicted. If you're in the same boat as someone who walked, then you'll walk. That's why we have "landmark supreme court decisions" and all this that affect future cases.
-------------------- Burt Cocaine
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist

Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,392
Last seen: 2 days, 22 hours
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Re: Ordering on Amazon? [Re: shaggyp]
#17606569 - 01/24/13 11:51 PM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Maharishi_2_U said: No worries as mentioned above, I'd be concerned with spores coming in illegally over an international border if I were you.
Nah, that's fine, customs doesn't care about California state laws.
Quote:
shaggyp said: Does anyone know if people have actually been prosecuted for having spores sent in to California?
I don't think that law has ever been enforced.
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King of Pain



Registered: 01/25/12
Posts: 761
Loc: utah
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Re: Ordering on Amazon? [Re: shaggyp]
#17607584 - 01/25/13 07:56 AM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
shaggyp said:
Respectfully, it has everything to do with everything. I'm not growing mycelium, and I don't intend to, so if they seize it then... they'll come to my house and won't find anything. I'm not asking if people get busted for cultivation (I know it's illegal), I'm asking if people really get prosecuted for having spores, and how do they prosecute (how is intent established if no myclelium is present?)
Your not planning on growing but you bought a pressure cooker and jars ok dude.
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Icepic
Enlightenment seeking


Registered: 05/20/02
Posts: 1,374
Loc: Wild west
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
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I'm making pickles and scoping out spores under a microscope. Cops are assholes and can be pretty stupid, but I've never met one that dumb. Spores, jars, a pressure cooker and your computer with shroomery is enough to bust you for conspiracy to manufacture or intent to manufacture. Atleast I would think so.
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shaggyp
California Hottboi



Registered: 12/27/12
Posts: 454
Last seen: 1 month, 19 days
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Re: Ordering on Amazon? [Re: Icepic]
#17608669 - 01/25/13 12:23 PM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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Ha, that's funny because I am planning to make pickles.
The bottom line is that none of those items are being stored on the property, so they'd have a hell of a time coming up in a court case.
Thanks Alan. I hope it stays that way. That law is really ridiculous. Next time I need to have something sent, I'll just go for the print.
-------------------- Burt Cocaine
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CidneyIndole
www.shroomery.OG



Registered: 05/16/05
Posts: 4,762
Loc: Love's Secret Domain
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Quote:
justncyn said:
Quote:
shaggyp said:
Respectfully, it has everything to do with everything. I'm not growing mycelium, and I don't intend to, so if they seize it then... they'll come to my house and won't find anything. I'm not asking if people get busted for cultivation (I know it's illegal), I'm asking if people really get prosecuted for having spores, and how do they prosecute (how is intent established if no myclelium is present?)
Your not planning on growing but you bought a pressure cooker and jars ok dude.
Yeah, @OP I believe this is where "other evidence" would come in. Taken together, the spores plus the pressure cooker, plus the jars, plus if you have something like BRF, Verm, etc.... all of those items together, plus possibly also computer records, etc, could constitute evidence of intent. That would probably depend on what they were informed of, and how badly they wanted to nail you.
-------------------- ------------------------ I am me. We are You.
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shaggyp
California Hottboi



Registered: 12/27/12
Posts: 454
Last seen: 1 month, 19 days
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Quote:
CidneyIndole said:
Quote:
justncyn said:
Quote:
shaggyp said:
Respectfully, it has everything to do with everything. I'm not growing mycelium, and I don't intend to, so if they seize it then... they'll come to my house and won't find anything. I'm not asking if people get busted for cultivation (I know it's illegal), I'm asking if people really get prosecuted for having spores, and how do they prosecute (how is intent established if no myclelium is present?)
Your not planning on growing but you bought a pressure cooker and jars ok dude.
Yeah, @OP I believe this is where "other evidence" would come in. Taken together, the spores plus the pressure cooker, plus the jars, plus if you have something like BRF, Verm, etc.... all of those items together, plus possibly also computer records, etc, could constitute evidence of intent. That would probably depend on what they were informed of, and how badly they wanted to nail you.
Read previous post. I'm not concerned with what could happen if cops find nonexistent evidence.
-------------------- Burt Cocaine
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CidneyIndole
www.shroomery.OG



Registered: 05/16/05
Posts: 4,762
Loc: Love's Secret Domain
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Re: Ordering on Amazon? [Re: shaggyp] 1
#17753214 - 02/05/13 11:23 PM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
shaggyp said:
Quote:
CidneyIndole said:
Quote:
justncyn said:
Quote:
shaggyp said:
Respectfully, it has everything to do with everything. I'm not growing mycelium, and I don't intend to, so if they seize it then... they'll come to my house and won't find anything. I'm not asking if people get busted for cultivation (I know it's illegal), I'm asking if people really get prosecuted for having spores, and how do they prosecute (how is intent established if no myclelium is present?)
Your not planning on growing but you bought a pressure cooker and jars ok dude.
Yeah, @OP I believe this is where "other evidence" would come in. Taken together, the spores plus the pressure cooker, plus the jars, plus if you have something like BRF, Verm, etc.... all of those items together, plus possibly also computer records, etc, could constitute evidence of intent. That would probably depend on what they were informed of, and how badly they wanted to nail you.
Read previous post. I'm not concerned with what could happen if cops find nonexistent evidence.
I read the previous post. I also read the first post where you said you ordered a pressure cooker and mason jars, and that you have spores on the way as well. It seems that all that is evidence which exists, and is also on its way to you.
Perhaps you could be more clear on what you mean by "nonexistent evidence?"
-------------------- ------------------------ I am me. We are You.
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shaggyp
California Hottboi



Registered: 12/27/12
Posts: 454
Last seen: 1 month, 19 days
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Because the pressure cooker and mason jars are gone. Not in my house to find.
This computer isn't even kept in my house, and I'm certified as a network administrator... which doesn't mean that much, but I'm aware of how overwriting works so even if they found the computer there would be no recoverable record of me visiting the shroomery.
Answer your question?
-------------------- Burt Cocaine
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shaggyp
California Hottboi



Registered: 12/27/12
Posts: 454
Last seen: 1 month, 19 days
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Re: Ordering on Amazon? [Re: shaggyp]
#17753318 - 02/05/13 11:39 PM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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I think Alan answered my question already so thanks anyway, but yeah. I'm only asking about the spores themselves.
I just wanted an answer that dealt with JUST that, and no other hypothetical evidence that could be found.
Bottom line is I'm just not interested in a debate on what constitutes cultivation, just wanted to know if people had been charged under California law for the spores themselves. Answers pertaining to cultivation are irrelevant to what I was asking.
-------------------- Burt Cocaine
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