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 Repertoire89
Cat
Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 22,536
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 Re: The whole is greater than the sum of it's parts.  [Re: quinn]
#17605191 - 01/24/13 07:53 PM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
quinn said:
if the whole wasn't greater than the sum of it's parts then a human life would be equivalent to a table's
There's no necessity to that correlation, the phrase in itself has no effect over objective reality.
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quinn
some kinda love
Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 6,799
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Re: The whole is greater than the sum of it's parts. [Re: Repertoire89] 1
#17605286 - 01/24/13 08:03 PM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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What would be a phrase that does have effect over objective reality?
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dripping with fantasy
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: The whole is greater than the sum of it's parts. [Re: quinn]
#17605309 - 01/24/13 08:07 PM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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"It is what it is."
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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quinn
some kinda love
Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 6,799
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Re: The whole is greater than the sum of it's parts. [Re: Icelander]
#17605496 - 01/24/13 08:31 PM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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so it is
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dripping with fantasy
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 allison_wonderland
corgi wrangler
Registered: 01/16/13
Posts: 50
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
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Re: The whole is greater than the sum of it's parts. [Re: quinn]
#17605724 - 01/24/13 09:09 PM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
quinn said:
if the whole wasn't greater than the sum of it's parts then a human life would be equivalent to a table's
The scientist in me is particularly intrigued by this statement.  We are all made of the same stuff after all. Tables, humans, rocks, air, plastic -- molecules when it comes down to it. Collections of molecules. And if we are not more than the sum of our parts, then we are equal to the table in a way.
I would say there is no phrase that has any more effect on objective reality than we allow it to have over our own. Again going back to the meaning that we tie into things based on our own human experience of reality.
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****Almost as useful as a jam sandwich to a drowning rabbit.***
Namaste
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Repertoire89
Cat
Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 22,536
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Re: The whole is greater than the sum of it's parts. [Re: quinn]
#17605872 - 01/24/13 09:33 PM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
quinn said:
What would be a phrase that does have effect over objective reality?
That question isn't relevant. The point I was trying to make in the last statement is that the adage being false does not make human life equal to a table. Theres no correlation between that adage and objective reality
The adage would just be false, a table a table, humans humans
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allison_wonderland
corgi wrangler
Registered: 01/16/13
Posts: 50
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
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Re: The whole is greater than the sum of it's parts. [Re: Repertoire89] 1
#17606070 - 01/24/13 10:09 PM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Repertoire89 said:
...does not make human life equal to a table....
The adage would just be false, a table a table, humans humans
That's the entire point! From one perspective, a table is a table, and human a human. But if you dissect it into small enough parts, both are just ordered collections of molecules... atoms... subatomic particles... all the same stuff. So how do we, as humans, actually differ from the table? The answer lies in the whole. We differ when we consider the whole.
In considering the whole, we must consider every aspect, not just the atoms, the molecules, the macromolecules, the cells, the clusters, the organs, the pieces, but also the arrangement of those pieces, the order, the functionality as a unit, the cohesiveness of the system... there is so much complexity when considering any given "whole," just as there are infinite ways of describing the "whole" system. Therefore, the whole is greater than the sum of it's parts.
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****Almost as useful as a jam sandwich to a drowning rabbit.***
Namaste
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Mr Person
Registered: 02/02/12
Posts: 551
Loc: inner circle of fault
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Re: The whole is greater than the sum of it's parts. [Re: Repertoire89]
#17606087 - 01/24/13 10:12 PM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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Comparing human beings to inanimate objects just because we are both made of molecules is stretching it a bit. It's not just the molecules we are made of, but how they are arranged and how they interact that creates emergent properties. And it is those emergent properties which cause something to be more than the sum of it's parts. I thought Diploid's explanation of the concept in a previous thread was pretty good.
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Repertoire89
Cat
Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 22,536
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Not sure where this conversation is leading anymore, the saying fits some situations and doesn't fit others. 
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allison_wonderland
corgi wrangler
Registered: 01/16/13
Posts: 50
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
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Quote:
Mr Person said:
It's not just the molecules we are made of, but how they are arranged and how they interact that creates emergent properties.
.... As I said....
Quote:
allison_wonderland said:
...we must consider every aspect, not just the atoms, the molecules, the macromolecules, the cells, the clusters, the organs, the pieces, but also the arrangement of those pieces, the order, the functionality as a unit, the cohesiveness of the system... there is so much complexity when considering any given "whole," just as there are infinite ways of describing the "whole" system. Therefore, the whole is greater than the sum of it's parts.
While I did not explicitly use the phrase "emergent properties," it is certainly contained within this chunk.
I completely disagree that it's a stretch. We ARE all ultimately made of the same stuff. Is that not completely amazing to you? That consciousness and this debate can stem solely from large collections of molecules that have somehow arranged themselves in such a perfect way as to allow for consciousness and debate..?
But I digress... the point is that we are debating the meaning of a particular adage, not the level at which humans can be compared to objects.
And when you say,
Quote:
Mr Person said:And it is those emergent properties which cause something to be more than the sum of it's parts.
You are seemingly presenting a point in direct agreement that the adage is quite meaningful and valid, so I will agree with you here. 
And in fact, tables (of the wooden variety, at least) were not always inanimate objects... but living trees.
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****Almost as useful as a jam sandwich to a drowning rabbit.***
Namaste
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Mr Person
Registered: 02/02/12
Posts: 551
Loc: inner circle of fault
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Sorry you posted that while I was typing. I think we are in agreement. 
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teknix
πβπ
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π°π‘ πΌπ⨻
Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 11,953
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Re: The whole is greater than the sum of it's parts. [Re: BlueCoyote]
#17606224 - 01/24/13 10:40 PM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
BlueCoyote said:
Quote:
Ms. Anthropy said:
Every time I've blazed this past week, that quote popped into my head and became the catalyst to unleash a Pandora's Box of shit to spend hours meditating on.
What does that quote mean to you?
It means
1 + 1 > 2
What if you have a car and you divide it by .5, will both .5 still = 1?
1 / .5 + .5 β 1
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teknix
πβπ
’ππ
π°π‘ πΌπ⨻
Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 11,953
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Re: The whole is greater than the sum of it's parts. [Re: teknix]
#17606296 - 01/24/13 10:53 PM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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So math is basically a hypothetical scenario being devoid of time and circumstance.
Such as a boy and a girl do not have an equal chance of being born, yet the stats book assumes it to be a literal 2 dimensional 2 sided coin devoid of any space. A coin toss in our reality has 3 sides.
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igCorcaigh
Registered: 06/17/12
Posts: 1,688
Loc: Ireland 
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Re: The whole is greater than the sum of it's parts. [Re: teknix]
#17613953 - 01/26/13 01:25 PM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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The whole has properties not exhibited by any of its parts.
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