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Offlinelysergic
Mycophile!
Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 691
Last seen: 18 years, 6 months
No pins?
    #1752097 - 07/27/03 02:04 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

This is all hypothetical and theory, none of it is real.

Lets say that PF style cakes inoculated and fully colonized with B+ Strain from Ryche. These cakes are dunked in water in the refrigerator overnight, then birthed into a rubbermaid container that has a layer of perlite 5" deep, a piece of 8mil plastic sheeting as a cover. The would-be container is opened three times a day and misted (very gently) and fanned for air exchange. Light is from 2 15 watt Actinic Blue bulbs approx 15-18" from the surface of the cakes (the top surface).

This "birth" occured, hypothetically, seven days ago. The cakes have fluffly cluster of mycelia off of them with what appeared at first to be hyphal knots, but they have not developed more in 5 days since their apearance. The tops of the cakes are having a somewhat yellowish-hue to them, but it's not spreading per se and it doesn't look like contam.

Questions :
1) where are the pins?!

2) Are teh conditions most likely favorable for pins to occur? Meaning patience is all that is required?

3) Is the yellowish hue a precursor to pinning? WOuld it be cause for concern?

Thanks


--------------------
In response to an attack killing 15 American Servicemen
PsiloKitten said:
Just give em a little more time, the iraqis are making great progress. And this is unorganized. Wait till they get organized.


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Offlinelysergic
Mycophile!
Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 691
Last seen: 18 years, 6 months
Re: No pins? [Re: lysergic]
    #1752180 - 07/27/03 02:57 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Should have mentioned this, temp in the rubbermaid = 71.6 degrees


--------------------
In response to an attack killing 15 American Servicemen
PsiloKitten said:
Just give em a little more time, the iraqis are making great progress. And this is unorganized. Wait till they get organized.


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InvisibleDatDaNK420
SeriousShroomage
Registered: 06/23/03
Posts: 612
Re: No pins? [Re: lysergic]
    #1752396 - 07/27/03 05:49 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

The yellowish hue is most likely waste that the mycelium excreted{also known as mycelium piss). I wouldnt worry to much about it. As for pins, well you got to have patience. My cakes have fluffy mycelium patches on them that have not became pins in a month. I doubt they are hyphal knots, I have never seen one of these so called hyphal knots, when pins popup they do it very quickly , they will appear out of nowhere, and it doesnt seem that where the pins are now there was ever a knot. I hope I helped.

DatDAnK


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InvisibleGestaltAssault
Sam Kohui (c)

Registered: 05/25/03
Posts: 420 420 Posts!
Loc: Here-->[x]
Re: No pins? [Re: DatDaNK420]
    #1752612 - 07/27/03 10:33 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

how many hours of light are the cakes receiving? what is the humidity in the chamber?


--------------------

i dont cultivate...i just post pictures, spread knowledge, and give advice
my brain's illegal because it contains DMT in the pineal gland, and so does your brain and everyone elses
the name's GestaltAssault not Get Us A Slut


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Offlinelysergic
Mycophile!
Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 691
Last seen: 18 years, 6 months
Re: No pins? [Re: GestaltAssault]
    #1752647 - 07/27/03 11:15 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

The humidity is, from my observations, over 95%. Water is dripping off of the top plastic layer and the sides. The cakes have been getting near 24 hours of light, but that has been bumped down to 12 hours on 12 hours off now.

Dat - Do you mean it's taken a MONTH to have pins occur?


--------------------
In response to an attack killing 15 American Servicemen
PsiloKitten said:
Just give em a little more time, the iraqis are making great progress. And this is unorganized. Wait till they get organized.


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InvisibleGestaltAssault
Sam Kohui (c)

Registered: 05/25/03
Posts: 420 420 Posts!
Loc: Here-->[x]
Re: No pins? [Re: lysergic]
    #1752689 - 07/27/03 11:38 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

yeah...DaTDaNK's project took 21 days to pin...i think the 24 hours of light is your problem...a friend's mycologist colleague noticed that mushroom growth speeds up during the dark cycle...she had a 12hour light/dark cycle and pins had shown in 6 days...mushrooms don't need light to grow...light just triggers a response in the mycelium to start fruiting...a 12hour cycle is good cuz it replicates the natural conditions of night and day...also rolling the cakes in verm after birth helps create more points for pinning...


--------------------

i dont cultivate...i just post pictures, spread knowledge, and give advice
my brain's illegal because it contains DMT in the pineal gland, and so does your brain and everyone elses
the name's GestaltAssault not Get Us A Slut


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Offlinelysergic
Mycophile!
Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 691
Last seen: 18 years, 6 months
Re: No pins? [Re: GestaltAssault]
    #1753848 - 07/27/03 08:59 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Ok, now down to 12 hour light cycles. Should they be rolled in wet or dry verm?

Thx


--------------------
In response to an attack killing 15 American Servicemen
PsiloKitten said:
Just give em a little more time, the iraqis are making great progress. And this is unorganized. Wait till they get organized.


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Offlinelysergic
Mycophile!
Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 691
Last seen: 18 years, 6 months
Re: No pins? [Re: lysergic]
    #1755946 - 07/28/03 01:29 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

A *bump* :smile:


--------------------
In response to an attack killing 15 American Servicemen
PsiloKitten said:
Just give em a little more time, the iraqis are making great progress. And this is unorganized. Wait till they get organized.


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Offlineredfoot
.

Registered: 05/07/03
Posts: 96
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
Re: No pins? [Re: lysergic]
    #1756086 - 07/28/03 02:14 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

if you cake has seemed to stall with its growth, that is normal. Give it another week, you will start to see shit happen. trust me.

cubes like 75F.

just what i hear.


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OfflinePsilocybin_monkey
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Registered: 06/19/03
Posts: 1,340
Loc: Dragon's Den
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Re: No pins? [Re: redfoot]
    #1756150 - 07/28/03 02:36 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

lol didn't I already tell you about the light cycle in advanced lysergic?(your post below)
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1727880&page=2&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

I told you 24 hours each day every day is very bad see that mushrooms and mycelium do most of the growing in the dark.

now that you tried it I hope you believe me now



Quote:

A few hours of light per day is all that is needed, 10 hours is probably a overkill. ( the book Mushroom Cultivator states that 12-16 hours of light is recommended, but the experience shows that much less is sufficient).



http://www.shroomery.org/index/par/23251




Quote:

As long as there is a window in the room, there will be sufficient light for your mushrooms to grow. In fact all your mushrooms really need is a few minutes of light a day to grow. All they need the light for is to know which way is up so they know which way to grow, but the amount of light given will not affect wether you get mushrooms or not.

The heigth of your mushrooms will also not be determined by the amount of light provided. Sometimes mushrooms will grow longer if they have less light.




--------------------
Welcome to my world!



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Offlinelysergic
Mycophile!
Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 691
Last seen: 18 years, 6 months
Re: No pins? [Re: Psilocybin_monkey]
    #1756311 - 07/28/03 03:31 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Yes, but other people told me that 24 hour light cycles worked great, in that same post. My conclusions as to that were that so many variables were in place in each posters specific conditions, that it was impossible to narrow down that it was the light causing the differences.


--------------------
In response to an attack killing 15 American Servicemen
PsiloKitten said:
Just give em a little more time, the iraqis are making great progress. And this is unorganized. Wait till they get organized.


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OfflinePsilocybin_monkey
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Posts: 1,340
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Re: No pins? [Re: lysergic]
    #1756401 - 07/28/03 03:56 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

So what do you think about 24 hours of light now that you tried it?


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Offlinelysergic
Mycophile!
Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 691
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Re: No pins? [Re: Psilocybin_monkey]
    #1761215 - 07/29/03 11:40 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Well, with no control group, I can't say. I can say that in the past, as I mentioned in the post you alluded to, I've had shrooms grow with 24 hours of light. I think that it's too early to ascribe a cause as to the lack of pins.


--------------------
In response to an attack killing 15 American Servicemen
PsiloKitten said:
Just give em a little more time, the iraqis are making great progress. And this is unorganized. Wait till they get organized.


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OfflinePsilocybin_monkey
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Re: No pins? [Re: lysergic]
    #1761618 - 07/30/03 02:38 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

anybody can post a pic of mushrooms and say they were given 24 hours of light.I don't believe them like I said in that post and were they given 24 hours of light and then 24 hours of dark they didn't seem to know anything about there so called 24 hours light tek.


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InvisibleMrMaddHatter
Dementia praecox
 User Gallery

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Re: No pins? [Re: Psilocybin_monkey]
    #1761707 - 07/30/03 03:18 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Casings will readily pin and fruit with 24/7 fluorescent light. Don't know about cakes.


Edited by MrMaddHatter (07/30/03 03:19 AM)


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OfflineMycoGlowFlow
between the walls
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Re: No pins? [Re: lysergic]
    #1761875 - 07/30/03 04:51 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

i dont remember if i once read that putting cakes directly to perlite is a bad idea but thats whatmy dog does and he doesnt even have to dunk his cakes anymore. he simply berths the cake on its side right onto the extra moist perlite.. i think his record pin time is 4 days, but he likes to season his jars right before invitro takes place. i think his malabar brf cake is on an amazing 7th flush a couragous lone 5 incher mushroom

coldshock slows


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(the key-strokes that have completed everything ever typed on this user name have been a random coincidence, except for the words in this notation)


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Offlinelysergic
Mycophile!
Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 691
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Re: No pins? [Re: MycoGlowFlow]
    #1764571 - 07/31/03 01:25 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

I know for a fact that casings can throw off flushes in 24 hour total floro light.  Dunked cakes over perlite do wonderfully :smile:  *edit* these cakes are placed on the lid ofthe jar, or alum foil


--------------------
In response to an attack killing 15 American Servicemen
PsiloKitten said:
Just give em a little more time, the iraqis are making great progress. And this is unorganized. Wait till they get organized.


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OfflinePsilocybin_monkey
Shroomer

Registered: 06/19/03
Posts: 1,340
Loc: Dragon's Den
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
Re: No pins? [Re: lysergic]
    #1764725 - 07/31/03 02:27 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

well I never tried to give 24hours light with casing but with cakes the less light the more and better they grew!

mushrooms doing most of the growing in the dark why the hell would somebody want to give them 24hours of light a day is beyond me????

It's like colonizing jars in the fridge it may work but take hell of alot longer(why bother)


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InvisibleATWAR
Connoisseur

Registered: 01/26/03
Posts: 1,640
Loc: #108768 in line...
Re: No pins? [Re: Psilocybin_monkey]
    #1764918 - 07/31/03 03:57 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

I would like to know where you get this information. I have grown mushrooms with continuous light, and I have grown them with no light at all (not even to set pins).

I cannot say that mushrooms grow the most in the dark; it seems to me (IME) that they grow equally as fast. The mushrooms that I have grown in complete darkness grew just as fast as ones that received light. I would figure this would be part of the cultivation technique if they grew faster during the dark periods. Simply apply light until pin set, then remove the light source for faster growing shrooms. Unfortunately, I have never read anything of the sort in cultivation books, in fact quite the opposite.

Light is key for proper mushroom formation in many species.


--------------------
To give is to live...



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OfflinePsilocybin_monkey
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Re: No pins? [Re: ATWAR]
    #1764949 - 07/31/03 04:18 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

don't take my word for it atwar take P.Stamets but I guess you know more then a pro mycologist


Quote:

A few hours of light per day is all that is needed, 10 hours is probably a overkill. ( the book Mushroom Cultivator states that 12-16 hours of light is recommended, but the experience shows that much less is sufficient).



http://www.shroomery.org/index/par/23251(click link)




Quote:

As long as there is a window in the room, there will be sufficient light for your mushrooms to grow. In fact all your mushrooms really need is a few minutes of light a day to grow. All they need the light for is to know which way is up so they know which way to grow, but the amount of light given will not affect wether you get mushrooms or not.

The heigth of your mushrooms will also not be determined by the amount of light provided. Sometimes mushrooms will grow longer if they have less light.




Quote:

Mushrooms are not plants, so they do not require the type and amount of light to grow like plants do.


--------------------
Welcome to my world!



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InvisibleATWAR
Connoisseur

Registered: 01/26/03
Posts: 1,640
Loc: #108768 in line...
Re: No pins? [Re: Psilocybin_monkey]
    #1764962 - 07/31/03 04:28 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

The information posted does not answer my question. Where do you get the information that mushrooms grow faster in darkness than with light?


--------------------
To give is to live...



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OfflinePsilocybin_monkey
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Re: No pins? [Re: ATWAR]
    #1764970 - 07/31/03 04:37 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

I never said anything about they grow faster in the dark that I could find plz quote if you find it plz.


Quote:

As long as there is a window in the room, there will be sufficient light for your mushrooms to grow. In fact all your mushrooms really need is a few minutes of light a day to grow. All they need the light for is to know which way is up so they know which way to grow, but the amount of light given will not affect wether you get mushrooms or not.

The heigth of your mushrooms will also not be determined by the amount of light provided. Sometimes mushrooms will grow longer if they have less light.




--------------------
Welcome to my world!



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OfflinePsilocybin_monkey
Shroomer

Registered: 06/19/03
Posts: 1,340
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Re: No pins? [Re: Psilocybin_monkey]
    #1764975 - 07/31/03 04:41 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

show anything that a pro mycologist said that growing in 24/7 light is the same or better as dark plz


I showed you mine now show me yours (info that back up your statment)


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InvisibleATWAR
Connoisseur

Registered: 01/26/03
Posts: 1,640
Loc: #108768 in line...
Re: No pins? [Re: Psilocybin_monkey]
    #1764980 - 07/31/03 04:47 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

I told you 24 hours each day every day is very bad see that mushrooms and mycelium do most of the growing in the dark.




Quote:

well I never tried to give 24hours light with casing but with cakes the less light the more and better they grew!

mushrooms doing most of the growing in the dark why the hell would somebody want to give them 24hours of light a day is beyond me????




--------------------
To give is to live...



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InvisibleATWAR
Connoisseur

Registered: 01/26/03
Posts: 1,640
Loc: #108768 in line...
Re: No pins? [Re: Psilocybin_monkey]
    #1764982 - 07/31/03 04:51 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

I showed you mine now show me yours (info that back up your statment)




Which statement would that be?


--------------------
To give is to live...



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OfflinePsilocybin_monkey
Shroomer

Registered: 06/19/03
Posts: 1,340
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Re: No pins? [Re: ATWAR]
    #1764984 - 07/31/03 04:51 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah they do most of the growing in the dark I didn't say they grow faster while in the dark there is a difference

they will grow more when giving dark(more growth) that dosn't mean they will grow faster at all I don't know where you came up with that sorry


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OfflinePsilocybin_monkey
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Loc: Dragon's Den
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Re: No pins? [Re: Psilocybin_monkey]
    #1764986 - 07/31/03 04:53 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

all of them stating that too much light is bad like i said(did you read)

Quote:

A few hours of light per day is all that is needed, 10 hours is probably a overkill. ( the book Mushroom Cultivator states that 12-16 hours of light is recommended, but the experience shows that much less is sufficient).




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Welcome to my world!



Edited by Psilocybin_monkey (07/31/03 04:57 AM)


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InvisibleATWAR
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Registered: 01/26/03
Posts: 1,640
Loc: #108768 in line...
Re: No pins? [Re: Psilocybin_monkey]
    #1764999 - 07/31/03 05:06 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Who is all of them, and where does it say that too much light is bad? It says overkill, not harmful. Overkill as in unnecessary. The only thing I have read about light being bad, is too much intensity will harm the mycelium. Nothing about too much exposure time having a negative impact.

Since you stated mushrooms do most of their growing in the dark, could you point me to this information? If they do most of their growing in the dark, then in the light they must grow less. Throw time into the mix and one would logically come to the conclusion that they would grow faster (as in more) without light. I fail to see any information that states this is true.


--------------------
To give is to live...



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OfflinePsilocybin_monkey
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Re: No pins? [Re: ATWAR]
    #1765009 - 07/31/03 05:16 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

like I told you before "overkill" means not good so if too much light is not good then hmmm take a guess?

here's what webster dictionary has tho say what "overkill" is

Quote:

Main Entry: 1over?kill
Pronunciation: "O-v&r-'kil
Function: transitive verb
Date: 1957
: to obliterate (a target) with more nuclear force than required




now how the do you get "Overkill as in unnecessary" out of that?

I asked for you to prove to me that people advise to grow in 24/7 light I never read that 24/7 light is good and should be used at all and I know you didn't too because you would have prof of what you are saying


any ways this is enough of this topic unless you can prove to me that 24/7 light is as good if not better then growing in the dark



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InvisibleATWAR
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Loc: #108768 in line...
Re: No pins? [Re: Psilocybin_monkey]
    #1765021 - 07/31/03 05:26 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

No where in my post did I ever advise anyone to grow in 24 hour light. I simply asked where you got this information that mushrooms do most of their growing during the dark period. Edit: Nor did I say that one extreme or the other is better. I simply asked you to provide a source for what you claim.

More force than required... Sounds unnecessary to me...


--------------------
To give is to live...



Edited by ATWAR (07/31/03 05:29 AM)


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OfflinePsilocybin_monkey
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Re: No pins? [Re: ATWAR]
    #1765029 - 07/31/03 05:41 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

lysergic said:Yes, but other people told me that 24 hour light cycles worked great, in that same post.




yeah you are right that is what you said.

yeah thats my bad atwar sorry about that i'm getting very tired it was lysergic that said that and I though you were getting his back on it(saying 24/7 light is better).

I will say when i'm wrong and I was wrong about what you were saying/asking so i'm sorry dude :smile:

overkill is bad for example if I incubate some jars at 112f that would be overkill and that is bad as it would kill the mycelium.

any ways i'm off to bed it's 4:20am here


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Welcome to my world!



Edited by Psilocybin_monkey (07/31/03 06:03 AM)


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Offlinewhole9
LOVE ME BITCH

Registered: 04/28/03
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Re: No pins? [Re: Psilocybin_monkey]
    #1765060 - 07/31/03 06:14 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

sleep is for the weak =D


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InvisibleATWAR
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Re: No pins? [Re: Psilocybin_monkey]
    #1765077 - 07/31/03 06:55 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

No problem mate, It takes much more than that to ruffle my feathers (although this part almost got to me: don't take my word for it atwar take P.Stamets but I guess you know more then a pro mycologist). Still, I would like to say that 24 hours light is overkill, yes. But, I fail to see how it is bad unless the light intensity is enough to hurt the mycelium.

Taken from GGMM:
" For the species described in this book, moderate lighting has no effect, adverse or advantageous, on the mycelium during spawn run. Bright, unfiltered, direct sunlight is damaging. Light is especially harmful when intensities exceed 10,000 lux."

"Light controls stem elongation and cap development." "Specific photoperiods and spectral frequencies have not yet been established for all mushroom species. In these cases, cultivators resort to providing the lighting necessary to the most sensitive of the gourmet mushrooms, the Pleurotus species"

"The sensitivity of mushrooms to light is surprising to most who have heard that mushrooms like to grow in the dark. In fact, most of the gourmet and medicinal mushrooms require and favoribly react to light. The development of mushrooms is affected by light in two ways. Initially, primordia form when exposed to light. Even though thousands of primordia form in response to brief light exposure, these primordia will not develop into normal looking mushrooms unless light is sustained."

In all the species covered in this book, and every topic about primordia formation and mushroom development, there is no mention about light duration, only intensity. I come to the conclusion from my own observations and information I have gathered from books, that duration of light has no negative impact on fruit body formation unless it is too little to have an effect (or so bright to hurt the mycelium, but I have never witnessed this personally). Now, in keeping with my logical thinking process I would have to say that a 24 hour photoperiod can have its advantages:

1. Proper mushroom development will take place.
2. If formation of primordia has yet to happen, then the longer light period will expose the mycelium to the major signal it needs, and at the moment it needs it. Say for instance you have a cake that you are attempting to fruit. All parameters have been met (full colonization, proper air exchange, and humidity), and you set your timer for say, 4 hours light. This would be enough in this situation. But, lets say the cake just isnt ready yet. You put your timer on 4 hours, what happens if the cake enters the "mediary" stage before primordia develop, but your light is off? You may have to wait another 20 hours for that light to click on and give the other stimuli the mycelium needs to form primordia. In keeping with this train of thought, then it would be advantageous to have your light on for 24 hours while waiting for pins.

I do not follow this logic however, my lights are on when they are on, and off whenever. I do believe that P. Cubensis is an exception though. Stem elongation and cap deformation are not a problem IME when grown in complete darkness. I had a casing that I forgot about in my garage once. A long time went by before I remembered it, only to discover a tangled mass of mushrooms growing under the lid of the container I had cased it in. The mushrooms that grew from it were just like they were supposed to be, except growing every which way. It continued to produce flush after flush in complete darkness. Back when I first entered into cultivation, I used 24 hours of light. The mushrooms that grew then were no different (nor did they grow faster or slower) than the ones that had a much shorter and irregular photoperiod.

If you could please point me to a reference that supports your theory that mushrooms do most of their growing in the dark, I would greatly appreciate it. I have heard this before, but have never seen any concrete evidence to support this claim. I do however believe this does happen in nature. During the night, temperatures cool, humidity is usually higher, and there is no sun to dry out the mushrooms. These types of conditions would favor mushroom growth, as compared to the hot, dry daytime.

Perhaps I will try an experiment to see, although I think I already know the results. Plus, I am already pre-occupied with a spore printing experiment that has much more importance to me at this stage...


--------------------
To give is to live...



Edited by ATWAR (07/31/03 07:48 AM)


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