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OfflinecronicrFacebook
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Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle Flag
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Re: Verm and the nutrients it may or may not possess. [Re: HypnotoadCroaked]
    #18068429 - 04/06/13 06:17 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

sawdust holds a good amount of water

and here's a spent pf cake 1.5 years later

just a pile of verm and a transparent paper like substance that use to be mycelium


--------------------

It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn

I'm tired do me a favor

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InvisibleHypnotoadCroaked
Retired, but will check MSGs


Registered: 01/05/13
Posts: 1,168
Re: Verm and the nutrients it may or may not possess. [Re: cronicr]
    #18068515 - 04/06/13 06:43 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

cronicr said:
sawdust holds a good amount of water

and here's a spent pf cake 1.5 years later

just a pile of verm and a transparent paper like substance that use to be mycelium




Sawdust does hold water, but it will not reach full hydration as fast as verm.  As for the plate of verm, the only real way to tell would be to scientifically measure the weight of the vermiculite before and after.  One would need to find a way to remove any and all matter that is not vermiculite.

I hate to say, but Its hard to say what P.F. was thinking when he engineered the cakes.  His choices directly influenced at-home mycology, not just with actives.  The internet has spread his information around to everywhere. 

This "technology" is new per se.  Two decades of cakes being made a certain way is pure genius on his part.  The only real changes in the cakes have been with fruiting "chambers".  Sure dunk/roll is "newer", but still the cake is unchanged.

I can almost confirm he was on drugs, but how/why did he chose verm?  Did he have a geologist friend who advised him of certain inert minerals in the vermiculite that are essential to mushrooms?  Probably not.  There is very little supporting information on anything other than very inert minerals on the internet, which SHOULD be a treasure trove of facts.  I think that the primary consideration for verm was that it easily holds water.  We can prove that OTHER materials work instead of vermiculite.  I don't dispute that there are minerals in vermiculite, nor that mycelium consume it.  But again, mycelium will consume lots of things readily.  I believe that the mechanical function of the verm was the primary reason for use, cost and availability being second and a coincidence that whatever is inside of the verm is just a coincidence.

I have spent some time off and on wondering this myself.  It is a very odd material from production all the way to the end product. 

I think that instead of reverse engineering what makes verm, we should look at what made a drug addled man ahead of his time choose verm.  All of us (hopefully) understand that there are times that our hobby takes our minds elsewhere.  His was apparently consumed with the hobby, and All of us benefited from it.

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OfflinecronicrFacebook
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Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle Flag
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Re: Verm and the nutrients it may or may not possess. [Re: HypnotoadCroaked]
    #18068560 - 04/06/13 06:53 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

just the fact that the verm is still there tells me it didn't break it down but gram for gram it still does it's job holding water, i had one with grains as well, the grains are gone but verm remains and again still holds the same amount of water that fresh verm does:shrug:
verm is awesome and that we can all agree on, does it work for bulikg out...i would say yes but not as well as other subs
maybe i'll use this pile to make another cake and put re-used verm to the test


--------------------

It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn

I'm tired do me a favor

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InvisibleHypnotoadCroaked
Retired, but will check MSGs


Registered: 01/05/13
Posts: 1,168
Re: Verm and the nutrients it may or may not possess. [Re: cronicr]
    #18068656 - 04/06/13 07:16 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

I pondered this while I showered, And I am going to say that my opinion has changed slightly.

I believe that Vermiculite is "inert" based on reading up on it on the internet.  It is a mineral.  I do believe however, that mycelium will consume it to a certain degree.  I do however not think that the substance of vermiculite is essential to the mushroom on a nutritional level.  Compare to an aluminum pan, where the mycelium will "eat" the pan.  This does not make aluminum necessary for growth.  Mushrooms "eat" lots of things, some of which are just plain toxic.  This does not however mean that it is "essential" for mycelium growth.  If it is being consumed as seems to be (debatable) agreement, it is my belief that it is purely incidental.  I think that ANYTHING that provides similar/identical mechanical functions could be used in place of verm within our cakes.  What holds many times its own weight in water easily that is cheap and readily available and will not compress or decompose easily?

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OfflineAmanita virosa
botanist by day
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Registered: 12/04/11
Posts: 2,458
Loc: north kakalacky
Last seen: 8 months, 15 days
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Re: Verm and the nutrients it may or may not possess. [Re: HypnotoadCroaked]
    #18069459 - 04/06/13 09:53 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Try feeding your mush some goddamn rocks. Works great.

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OfflineTmethylM
Smear in the shale
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Registered: 07/16/12
Posts: 16,431
Loc: Florida
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Re: Verm and the nutrients it may or may not possess. [Re: Amanita virosa]
    #18069500 - 04/06/13 10:02 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Amanita virosa said:
Try feeding your mush some goddamn rocks. Works great.





My Prototaxites culture eats rocks!


Oh crap nvm it died a few hundred million years ago when I was just a boy..
here it is now.


--------------------
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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InvisibleHypnotoadCroaked
Retired, but will check MSGs


Registered: 01/05/13
Posts: 1,168
Re: Verm and the nutrients it may or may not possess. [Re: Amanita virosa]
    #18069759 - 04/06/13 11:15 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Amanita virosa said:
Try feeding your mush some goddamn rocks. Works great.



I posted what I posted prior to doing more research.  I stand by my opinion that IF the weight can be proven to change, it is only inert materials that have been absorbed from the vermiculite to the mushroom and not vermiculite itself.  Its going to be so hard to prove/disprove...common sense says that a fungus cant consume a rock, and no one has prove it can.  However, we can prove it will eat aluminum, crude oil and god knows what else.  I agree totally that there is 0 nutritional benefit to pure vermiculite...

Pro tip: I try not to have an opinion here because too many people get butt-hurt.  Now that I've put my head out People are gonna hate :wink:.  /sarcasm

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OfflineTmethylM
Smear in the shale
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Registered: 07/16/12
Posts: 16,431
Loc: Florida
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Re: Verm and the nutrients it may or may not possess. [Re: HypnotoadCroaked]
    #18069772 - 04/06/13 11:17 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Whippy said:
However, we can prove it will eat aluminum, crude oil and god knows what else.



Plastic.

The fungi, Pestalotiopsis microspora, is the first anyone has found to survive on a steady diet of polyurethane alone.


--------------------
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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InvisibleHypnotoadCroaked
Retired, but will check MSGs


Registered: 01/05/13
Posts: 1,168
Re: Verm and the nutrients it may or may not possess. [Re: Tmethyl]
    #18069810 - 04/06/13 11:23 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Tmethyl said:
Quote:

Whippy said:
However, we can prove it will eat aluminum, crude oil and god knows what else.



Plastic.

The fungi, Pestalotiopsis microspora, is the first anyone has found to survive on a steady diet of polyurethane alone.




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pestalotiopsis_microspora

You have to have a spore print or something of that already.  Its pure amazing that a natural creature can consume something so man made and disgusting as plastic.

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