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OfflineNullface

Registered: 09/04/11
Posts: 4,734
Loc: USA Flag
Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
Re: Which drugs are most harmful? our poll vs. this one [Re: Salomon]
    #17459932 - 12/28/12 08:27 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

What do you mean by harmful? To the body? Mental health? Socially/culturally? There are a lot of variables that make a poll like this useless. I don't understand why heroin is so high if the poll is referring to bodily harm because heroin itself doesn't do damage do your body alone. This is where the social/cultural variable comes in with this drug. It's not the drug's fault that it's illegal and cut with random other substances or that it's sold on the black market which can put you in some bad situations and circumstances that can cause bodily/mental harm in itself like violence or a reckless addiction for means of an escape from ones life. But in a controlled setting with the drug being 100% pure and administered by medical professionals? No I don't think that heroin will cause any of that if it's only a one time thing. Look at ecstasy. It's being used on people to treat PTSD in a single session and they never use it again, but at the time we have people going to raves every week and taking it in an uncontrolled setting and buying it on the black market. The difference may not only be the drug itself, but the culture it's tied to. You aren't putting yourself in sketchy situations and circumstances to buy it if you are buying it at a rave unlike when the average heroin user buys heroin. Not to mention the users of the drug themselves are less than reputable people that you have to associate with to maintain a connection for the drug. The 'scenes' associated with these two drugs seem to be polar opposites and that may be why ecstasy is so low on this list. I wouldn't trust an ecstasy pill if it was given to me any more than I would trust heroin in terms of quality as they are both sold on the black market and are unregulated. Heroin had a life way before the War on Drugs and was sold by Bayer which is the same company who sells Aspirin before it was made illegal.

Quote:

From 1898 through to 1910, diacetylmorphine was marketed under the trademark name Heroin as a non-addictive morphine substitute and cough suppressant. Bayer marketed the drug as a cure for morphine addiction before it was discovered that it rapidly metabolizes into morphine. As such, diacetylmorphine is in essence a quicker-acting form of morphine. The company was embarrassed by the new finding, which became a historic blunder for Bayer.

In the U.S.A., the Harrison Narcotics Tax Act was passed in 1914 to control the sale and distribution of diacetylmorphine and other opioids, which allowed the drug to be prescribed and sold for medical purposes. In 1924, the United States Congress banned its sale, importation or manufacture. It is now a Schedule I substance, which makes it illegal for non-medical use in signatory nations of the Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs treaty, including the United States.





I can't find any information on overdose deaths related to heroin from the 1920s and back, but I highly doubt it was a real issue seeing as it was regulated by a company and pure along with dosage information just like any other medicine they sold I would think. But no one knows how much heroin is in each 'bag' that you buy nor how much MDMA in is the ecstasy pills that you buy now so it's no surprise that people have died off these drugs. What if no medicine sold in this country had dosage information? You just took a handful of acetaminophen and hoped for the best. This common pain reviler will cause liver failure if you take too much of it. I've never tried heroin and I won't personify a chemical and call it evil because of all the aforementioned variables that come into play when obtaining and using both of these drugs. I have used MDMA and had a fun time on it, but I don't think it's something that should be used every day because your brain needs time to recover from it. I also wouldn't use heroin everyday because of the physical dependence that develops, but I'm certain you could be use heroin once or twice a month just as MDMA is advertised to be taken to avoid problems. So if these two drugs are used in the same controlled setting they would both be considered safe to do. So why are they almost polar opposites on this list if they were judging these drugs on their (side)effects or toxicity alone instead of the aforementioned variables that come into play? This poll is stupid and so is every poll that tries to compare drugs to one another like this.

:shrug:


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OfflineNullface

Registered: 09/04/11
Posts: 4,734
Loc: USA Flag
Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
Re: Which drugs are most harmful? our poll vs. this one [Re: Nullface]
    #17459992 - 12/28/12 08:53 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

I knew it was worse than I originally thought. Look at all these variables which are unrelated to the drug itself that they have been included into this "study". The whole left side needs to go and so do many things from the right. This whole study is stupid and spreads misinformation by including these societal variables that are caused by the same people doing this study.




:facepalm3:


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Offlinewire5
Hippie Born too Late
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Registered: 04/05/11
Posts: 1,566
Loc: Rollin' on the River
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: Which drugs are most harmful? our poll vs. this one [Re: Nullface]
    #17466293 - 12/29/12 01:27 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Half that stuff on that list should be removed as it just skews the study, Name crime and economic cost (especially since they are almost synonymous). Also that's probably why weed is ranked so high because its illegal and popular, therefore has a high "crime rate"

I voted Heroine, Illegal amphetamines, and crack. I also meant to hit alcohol but apparently it wasn't selected when I hit vote.


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Offlinetp123
Stranger

Registered: 12/11/11
Posts: 147
Last seen: 5 years, 11 months
Re: Which drugs are most harmful? our poll vs. this one [Re: DjDroof]
    #17466469 - 12/29/12 02:11 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

i hope your joking


--------------------
I have a tendency to talk/write about drugs that i know nothing of, and do not do


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InvisibleKilgore Trout
Yachts on the reg


Registered: 07/09/12
Posts: 9,863
Loc: Metro City, USA
Re: Which drugs are most harmful? our poll vs. this one [Re: tp123]
    #17466496 - 12/29/12 02:15 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Why isn't krokodil on the list?

That would be #1 by a long shot.


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Registered: 06/29/01
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Re: Which drugs are most harmful? our poll vs. this one [Re: dxharms]
    #17467015 - 12/29/12 04:14 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:


Which drugs will actually ruin your life and kill your mom. The ramblings of a paramedic. (self.Drugs)

submitted 10 months ago* by fischestix

I get sick and tired of the misinformation about drugs in this country and society in general. Dishonest drug education is insulting and damaging. Without sounding preachy or judgmental I have compiled a list of how dangerous I think certain drugs actually are. These are in rough order from most to least scary to me. I will only comment on substances I have come in direct contact with as a medical provider. I will not discuss case or patient specifics. I will disclaim this by saying this is my personal opinion based on my experiences, and not meant to endorse or recommend consuming any drugs. Any time you put any substance into your body you risk death, these risks increase significantly when you rely on a product that has to be sold on the black market... I digress....

Combinations Ask any overdosed dead celebrity..... combos kill. By far the number one thing I see in drug related emergencies is combinations. Mixing substances can have unexpected and powerful effects.

PCP is the drug that frightens me personally the most. I have fought normal sized humans that easily took on 5 people and a taser with out slowing down. I don't know what habitual users look like or the down sides of long term use because I have never treated the same PCP patient twice. The people who are on it do not look to be enjoying themselves. I have never seen anyone as violent as a person on PCP. I have no idea what percentage of users react this way.

Bath salts People on bath salts behave similarly to people on speed but with a bit of the disorientation and violence of PCP. Users have often picked their skin off or have scratched themselves raw. The neglect and decline in physical health reminds of of methamphetamine. I have seen this drug cause serious heart arrhythmias and neurological deficits that I believe to be permanent.

Huffing/Inhalants (edit) I forgot about this because I consider more like auto erotic than a drug ಠ_ಠ. You are using a chemical that replaces oxygen in your blood. This is obviously not good. I have seen people with brain damage so severe they are in a nursing home from huffing. Huffing is getting high on a mild to severe head injury. Long term huffers and old traumatic brain injury patients are indistinguishable.

Methamphetamines The effects of heavy meth use are exactly as bad as shown in the media. This drug literally breaks your body down. I can't say enough negative about this drug. The things it does to the human body and mind are just sad.

Cocaine The only contact I have had with cocaine is when someone has a major heart problem, often after years of use. I have no idea on numbers or habituation, users of cocaine seem to downplay their use more than other drugs. I rarely get a full usage history of a cocaine user. I can say in some cases it can cause you to have a major heart attack and die, that's about the extent of my experience.

Benzodiazepines (edit) Basically the opiate's slow cousin (as far as how people present). Symptoms can mimic heroin overdoses but are more difficult to reverse. The reversal agent isn't carried by many ambulances because of the side effects of treating benzo overdoses with out doing lab work first. I almost always see benzos combined with other drugs, which is when they are a serious threat. People on a benzo/opiate mix are far more prone to sudden cardiopulmonary collapse than the opiate by its self.

Opiates are opiates.... I make no distinction between Rx pills and street heroin as far as the addition is concerned. The delivery method, purity/concentration and tolerance the variables. People whom I have revived from respiratory arrest due to narcotics overdoses are always mad. Apparently this is the best feeling in the world, "being so happy you die". Everyone knows opiates are very addictive. They have the potential to cause many negative health effects when abused. That said I was on high dose opiates for months (prescribed) and successfully weaned off of them even though I enjoyed them thoroughly. I have no idea how much the deaths from ODs would drop if people knew the concentration of what they were using, at least some. Also, reversing heroine overdoses is easy. A simple nasal spray or injection of a relatively harmless drug totally reverses opiate overdoses.

Acid/LSD/Shrooms I call these the non-violent hallucinogens. The effects of LSD, acid or shrooms on people seem to have a lot to do with their frame of mind. I basically see peoples existing issues turned into a freak out. The other people (the not sick ones in the room) seemed to be having a decent time. I have never had anyone totally in a different world who was on just acid (hard to test for, based on admissions). Several users of acid have described it as seeing the world that is actually there, just distorted. Sometimes people on shrooms have gastric problems like vomiting. I imagine that's less than fun while on a hallucinogen. I have never seen any major changes in vital signs that I couldn't attribute to anxiety.

Alcohol By far the most wide spread drug I encounter. If it's after midnight at a car wreck and I don't have a drunk person, I'm missing a patient. Long term there are negative effects on the body and short term it can alter peoples' moods for the worse.

Marijuana In almost 15 years I have only twice taken care of a person who's only medical problem was cannabis consumption. Both cases were panic attacks. I have had people injure themselves while high, in a similar ways to alcohol just less often. I have also never treated anyone with long term health effects of using only marijuana, although people with long term health effects from drugs rarely use one. Since I rarely encounter users in a medical capacity it's hard for me to say what other issues it may cause. My impression is that this drug may be far less harmful than it is made out to be, similar if not less problematic than alcohol in my opinion.

tldr; A breakdown of how scary different drugs are perceived to be by a paramedic.

If someone has an idea for me to verify my credentials w/o revealing my identity let me know. I will answer any questions to the best of my ability.

-edit-Format/line breaks, added benzos

-edit- No, I myself do not consume drugs other than alcohol socially and the above mentioned time I was prescribed narcotics.

Follow up to common PMs--

What do I think about legality of drugs? My personal opinion on drug prohibition is that it causes more death and suffering than it alleviates. I believe in personal accountability. People are to blame for tragedy, not the implements they use...be that cars, guns, drugs, knives etc.

Where did I work? I have worked 8 years in a high volume urban setting and just over 6 in suburban/rural 911 based EMS.

How often are calls drug related? If you count people exaggerating or fabricating symptoms to get drugs, drug/alcohol related or exacerbated issues made up as much as half of my 911 calls in the urban environments. It is less than one in ten in the rural and it's maybe one in five in the suburban. That would jump greatly if you excluded people under 12 and over 70.

Do I tell the police when someone is on drugs? Not unless I absolutely have to for legal or safety reasons (children present etc). If the police are around what you say is up to you. When they are gone I'll ask again so that my treatment doesn't accidentally kill you based on the drug you won't admit you took.

What do I do with drugs I find on a person? I turn them over to the next authority I see next. That could be hospital security, a doctor or a police officer on scene. Usually they are simply destroyed. We try not to punish people for calling 911 for a medical emergency.





--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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Offlinewire5
Hippie Born too Late
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Registered: 04/05/11
Posts: 1,566
Loc: Rollin' on the River
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: Which drugs are most harmful? our poll vs. this one [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #17474734 - 12/31/12 12:52 AM (11 years, 30 days ago)

Good one Railgun. Very informative post!


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
Say hello to my little friend
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Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,808
Loc: Canada Flag
Re: Which drugs are most harmful? our poll vs. this one [Re: wire5]
    #17474830 - 12/31/12 01:26 AM (11 years, 30 days ago)

Meth turned me into a monster that I had no control over. The damage to my body was one thing, but my total disregard for the well being of anyone who may have been in my path was another. I remember once when myself and a friend (who was also a severe jib teck) beat the shit outta guy in a mall food court, because we suspected that he was following us. He was probably some guy trying to eat his lunch. The person I am today feels bad about the shit that I did back then, but at the time I felt totally justified. God help you if we saw you walking down the street with and ipod/cell phone/anything we figured we could jack and sell.

The need to feed the monkey was one thing, but for some reason we lost all sense of right or wrong at the time, and myself and many of my addicted friends, committed horrible acts of violence. I am a straight up liberal when it comes to most drugs, but meth is not one of them. To anyone contemplating using meth, all I gotta say is; be prepared to turn into a violent, paranoid, animal. Cause when you go far enough down that road, that's what we all become. Even if you do kick the shit like I did, your actions while enslaved to that beast may haunt you for years to come. I have been clean for 10 years and I still remember the last day I did it, and I still have nightmares and dreams about it.


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