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OfflineGrav
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Registered: 02/06/02
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the absence of a reference point
    #1745005 - 07/24/03 04:50 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I was just recalling a recent time in my life where I felt like the victim of this, thought I would share my thoughts.

Hard to explain I guess, but it seemed impossible to make any sort of mental progress because I had no ground to stand on in the first place.
No base, no reference point.

Sort of like trying to climb out of a hole but you don't know which way is up or down.

Morals, preferences, objectives, goals... all of it just floated by because I felt I didn't have any solid base to attach it to. Dig?

luckily I stumbled upon my reference point. and how did I do that? just went with what felt right, and stopped looking behind me.
a mix of becoming open to experiencing without analyzing, as well as facing up to aspects that just "weren't me", and letting them go.
Pain, undeniable feelings of love, and sincere anger and fear also were helpful guides.

as lost as you get, you always came from somewhere.

hope maybe this helps someone
peace


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: the absence of a reference point [Re: Grav]
    #1745024 - 07/24/03 04:57 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Right on.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Offlinecybernaut3
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Registered: 02/05/02
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Re: the absence of a reference point [Re: Sclorch]
    #1745107 - 07/24/03 05:27 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

there is a reference point: the truth should be your reference point. pureness should be your reference point. if there was no reference point you would have no concept of there even being a truth. seek the universe's Creator for answers and he will give you an infallible reference point. the Bible is from God, but unless you ask God to show you what the Bible means you won't be able to understand any of it and you will hate it. that's the way it is according to cybernaut3 and the Bible...


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OfflinePyronate
Prying open mythird eye

Registered: 07/06/03
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Re: the absence of a reference point [Re: cybernaut3]
    #1745147 - 07/24/03 05:41 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

cybernaut: You're a jackass. Religious arguments are about as effective in serious philosophic discussions as trying to take on a tank with a flyswatter.


There are no reference points except the ones we decide on for ourselves. Ultimately, this means a serious examination of our world/life view will inevitably lead to a realization of the utter lack of any reference point; this leads to a demolition of our constructed view of reality, and often of ourselves. This is particularly notable on higher doses of entheogens, in which it becomes possible to enfold oneself entirely in the chaos, and merely be - to live and exist with no reference points, to melt and flow in the chaos of existence.

Also note that we (as in I, or the singular entity performing these thoughts) did not necessarily come from anywhere. Eternal or timeless existence of a singular entity within which the illusion of consensus reality exists is not impossible, nor even unlikely.


--------------------
"It's not a war on drugs, it's a war on personal freedom... keep that in mind at all times."

--Bill Hicks (RIP)


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InvisibletrendalM
point of inflection
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Re: the absence of a reference point [Re: Pyronate]
    #1745327 - 07/24/03 07:01 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Please don't flame people, mmkay?  :wink:


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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OfflineNewSpore
Just Starting toSee the Light

Registered: 03/26/03
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Re: the absence of a reference point [Re: Grav]
    #1745582 - 07/24/03 08:14 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Thanks for sharing. Listening to the little voice or voices and following what feels right should feel centering. Although, when you get yourself into situations that could be considered "Stormlike" one sometimes questions "should I have listened to others?" Heck no, you are right where you should be. Grow where you are planted.


--------------------
Be in truth and watch the magic happen.
SBP TEK


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OfflineQuadrant6
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Registered: 07/24/03
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Re: the absence of a reference point [Re: NewSpore]
    #1745682 - 07/24/03 08:44 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Until I read this, I also felt without a refrence point. I usually followed my feelings, and who I am, but sometimes I get lost in the propaganda I am forced to take in. Its kinda hard to relize that everything you know is learned, and not necesarily true. I dont know who I can trust except myself.



--------------------
"Time is the substance from which I am made. Time is a river which carries me along, but I am the river; it is a tiger that devours me, but I am the tiger; it is a fire that consumes me, but I am the fire."
Jorge Luis Borges


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InvisibleDarkcloud
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Re: the absence of a reference point [Re: Grav]
    #1745964 - 07/24/03 10:23 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

"None of us will ever accomplish anything excellent or commanding except when he listens to this whisper which is heard by him alone." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

Following others has gotten me nowhere. Listening to myself has gotten me everywhere...

Quote:

Quadrant6 said:
Its kinda hard to relize that everything you know is learned, and not necesarily true. I dont know who I can trust except myself.





Exactly. :wink: Rock on...

Nice thread...5 Shrooms.


 


--------------------
:poison: :poison: :poison:


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Anonymous

Re: the absence of a reference point [Re: Darkcloud]
    #1745993 - 07/24/03 10:31 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quadrant6: Its kinda hard to relize that everything you know is learned, and not necesarily true.

Do you know that? Or have you just learned it?


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OfflineQuadrant6
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Registered: 07/24/03
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Re: the absence of a reference point [Re: ]
    #1746102 - 07/24/03 11:19 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I dont know it. I sense it. I guess it could have been learned, but learned through my own mistakes, my own trial and error.

I accept the fact that I dont know everything, and possibly nothing...but in order to operate in a day to day world I have to play along and pretend that maybe some things are true. I like to think the tings i've learned myself without influence of others come first in line. :laugh:

Question Everything 


--------------------
"Time is the substance from which I am made. Time is a river which carries me along, but I am the river; it is a tiger that devours me, but I am the tiger; it is a fire that consumes me, but I am the fire."
Jorge Luis Borges


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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/19/00
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Re: the absence of a reference point [Re: Darkcloud]
    #1746207 - 07/24/03 11:53 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

"None of us will ever accomplish anything excellent or commanding except when he listens to this whisper which is heard by him alone." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

What about when that gentle whisper sez: "Get an AK-47 an open up on the McDonald's customers?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineQuadrant6
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Re: the absence of a reference point [Re: Swami]
    #1746239 - 07/25/03 12:07 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Sucks to be them.


--------------------
"Time is the substance from which I am made. Time is a river which carries me along, but I am the river; it is a tiger that devours me, but I am the tiger; it is a fire that consumes me, but I am the fire."
Jorge Luis Borges


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OfflineDrubuShrume
EAT ME - I'm afungi

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Re: the absence of a reference point [Re: Quadrant6]
    #1746292 - 07/25/03 12:32 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

What about when that gentle whisper sez: "Get an AK-47 an open up on the McDonald's customers?

Then they better get his damn order right... ;0)


--------------------
AH HA....


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InvisibleZero7a1
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Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3,594
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Re: the absence of a reference point [Re: Grav]
    #1746373 - 07/25/03 01:00 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

That helps a lot man.  :smile2: 


--------------------
What?


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: the absence of a reference point [Re: cybernaut3]
    #1746596 - 07/25/03 02:07 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

cybernaut3 said:
there is a reference point: the truth should be your reference point. pureness should be your reference point. if there was no reference point you would have no concept of there even being a truth. seek the universe's Creator for answers and he will give you an infallible reference point. the Bible is from God, but unless you ask God to show you what the Bible means you won't be able to understand any of it and you will hate it. that's the way it is according to cybernaut3 and the Bible...



This reminds me of what Bill Maher was saying in his comedy special. People are so hung up on looking for answers that they'll turn to religion and believe whatever that religion says because it claims to have those answers. What's so hard about just saying, "I don't know"? That's basically what religion tries to do. It comes up with answers to questions that no one can possibly know the answer to.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineMalachi
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Re: the absence of a reference point [Re: Grav]
    #1746674 - 07/25/03 02:24 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I find it has to be family or a being really emotionally close to you that I have I have to use as a "reference point". (I'm assuming you mean while tripping....)

or when I can't even remember that I have family or close people or even that there are other beings besides me, it seems almost like it's the faith that I won't always be alone, that it's temporary that I "base" myself on.


--------------------
The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,451
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Re: the absence of a reference point [Re: Malachi]
    #1747738 - 07/25/03 12:51 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

"What's so hard about just saying, "I don't know"?"

that reminds me of the part at the end of the movie PI when the little girl asked Max the answer to a big division problem and he smiled and said, "I don't know."

sometimes ignorance IS bliss.


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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OfflineGrav
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Re: the absence of a reference point [Re: DoctorJ]
    #1747813 - 07/25/03 01:14 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

family helped me alot. i dont know if i could have come this far without them being there. in a way they are my base. they are what i grew out of. I take comfort in the thought that one of my ancestors pondered life in the same manner I have. I think half the reason I felt so lost was because I walked away from my family... I had only to accept them into my life again and they were glad to be there.

organized religion has always turned me off, I guess having a consistent non-preference like that helped move things along.


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OfflineNewSpore
Just Starting toSee the Light

Registered: 03/26/03
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Re: the absence of a reference point [Re: DoctorJ]
    #1748280 - 07/25/03 03:14 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

sometimes ignorance IS bliss.




Yes it is....... but awareness is the boobie prize. Once you see what you have always denied, that is when the work comes in. Especially when you see people that have always been in your life in a different way. It is up to the aware to rise above the games and petty concerns of those who are still clinging hard to the "comfortable" beliefs....


--------------------
Be in truth and watch the magic happen.
SBP TEK


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OfflinePyronate
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Re: the absence of a reference point [Re: silversoul7]
    #1748843 - 07/25/03 06:23 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

To quote someone I've forgotten the name of:

"Religion turns unanswerable questions into unquestionable answers."


And one of my favorite quotes of all time, by Karl Marx:

"Religion is the opiate of the masses."


--------------------
"It's not a war on drugs, it's a war on personal freedom... keep that in mind at all times."

--Bill Hicks (RIP)


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