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Offlineshakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 20 years, 1 month
Re: Pictures of Saddam's Sons [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1748318 - 07/25/03 01:26 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Azmodeus said:
Well you should give it more cus it was true. 




Your kidding right? :rolleyes:

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OfflineAzmodeus
Seeker

Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3,392
Loc: Lotus Land!! B.C.
Last seen: 19 years, 5 months
Re: Pictures of Saddam's Sons [Re: shakta]
    #1748521 - 07/25/03 02:22 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

shakta said:
Quote:

Azmodeus said:
Well you should give it more cus it was true. 




Your kidding right? :rolleyes: 




Well kinda...the people might have been glad saddam was out, but they selected the crowd, it was like a movie shoot. :tongue:


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "

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Offlined33p
Welcome to Violence

Registered: 07/12/03
Posts: 5,381
Loc: the shores of Tripoli
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
Re: Pictures of Saddam's Sons [Re: Xlea321]
    #1749346 - 07/25/03 07:46 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Alex123 said:
he gets jealous when other people speak for the Iraquis

Only when it's by some guy who'se only knowledge of Iraq is from Fox news  :smirk:

I have a hard time accepting any right-winger would be objective enough to see through the fog of propaganda on this issue.
 




so are left-wingers given special goggles to see through this fog once they sign up or do they have this ability from birth.


--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang

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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Pictures of Saddam's Sons [Re: d33p]
    #1750007 - 07/26/03 01:00 AM (20 years, 10 months ago)

I just find it amusing how easy it is to manipulate Bush-munchers into demonising people. You could easily portray countless US backed and supported leaders as vicious torturers and genocidal murderers, far worse than Uday. But they're ok to fund and arm for some reason. It's only the ones Bush tells you are "bad" that shakta wants to torture and kill.

Check out a man called Suharto if you really want to know about torture and mass-murder. And check out who his best buddies were.

http://www.house.gov/bernie/statements/1998-05-13-suharto.html

END U.S. SUPPORT FOR SUHARTO DICTATORSHIP IN INDONESIA

Mr. Speaker, the time is now to end U.S. support for the Suharto dictatorship in Indonesia. I will be sending a letter to the President tomorrow with a number of signatures from my colleagues to urge him to help us do that.

History has taught us that it is not in the best interest of this country or for the people of affected countries that the United States back corrupt, authoritarian regimes whose leaders are opposed by the vast majority of their people.

It was wrong for us to have supported the Mobuto government in Zaire, the Saddam Hussein government in Iraq, the Noriega government in Panama, and many other dictatorships that we have backed over the years. It is wrong for us to support the Suharto government today.

As a result of our support for these corrupt and detested governments, our credibility in the world community suffers and our commitment to freedom and human rights is rightfully challenged.

As you know, Mr. Speaker, General Suharto is currently in his seventh 5-year term at the helm of the Government in Indonesia, which, according to the most recent U.S. State Department report on human rights, `remains strongly authoritarian.' That is from the U.S. State Department.

This same report states that in 1997 the Suharto government `continued to commit serious human rights abuses' and `demonstrated that it would not tolerate challenges to the fundamental elements of the political system by arresting and placing on trial some of its critics.'

The State Department report documents Suharto's failure to allow free and fair elections in Indonesia in the most recent elections, just as he has done in the previous five held since 1971.

Today, the leader of the free trade union movement in Indonesia, Muchtar Pahpahan, remains in jail because of his radical belief that workers in this country have the right of freedom of association.

Further, General Suharto is widely acknowledged to be a dictator with an enormous amount of blood on his hands. In 1965, when he toppled General Sukarno as leader of Indonesia, it is estimated that some half million Indonesians were killed. Half a million, one of the great slaughters in modern history.

In East Timor, it is believed General Suharto's decisions have led to the deaths of 200,000 people or one-third, one-third of East Timor's population. Just yesterday, six unarmed students were shot down in cold blood by the Suharto military for protesting against the dictatorship. Recent testimony before Congress shows that Suharto's government is currently disappearing and torturing hundreds of its opponents.

General Suharto is known, not only for his brutality, but for his corruption and his greed. He is the sixth wealthiest person in the world, and it is estimated that his family is worth between $30 billion and $40 billion. This wealth has been accumulated in a country where the average income is less than $20 a week and where child labor is widespread.

The Suharto family owns much of Indonesia's wealth, and they have strong control over the economy there. It is widely acknowledged the Suharto family makes huge sums of money by running cartels and receiving bribes and kickbacks in perhaps the outstanding international example of crony capitalism.

Every day, more and more Indonesians are showing extraordinary courage and are putting their lives on the line by standing up to the Suharto dictatorship. Not only have tens of thousands of Indonesian students taken to the streets, but even retired generals and former cabinet ministers are now calling for General Suharto's ouster. Mr. Amien Rais, a prominent Muslim leader, recently said, `I urge the government of President Suharto to step down, as the people demand.' If the brave people of Indonesia are prepared to risk their lives to demand that General Suharto step aside, how can we ignore their cries for freedom?

It is important that we act soon. If General Suharto understands that we no longer support him, and international support for his regime is fading, it is far more likely that he will give up power soon, avoiding unnecessary bloodshed. In other words, the sooner that the United States tells Suharto that we will not support him, the more likely it is that he will perhaps flee his country and prevent the widespread bloodshed that might otherwise happen.

In my view, the President must utilize all diplomatic tools available to expedite the replacement of the Suharto dictatorship with a democratically elected government. Such steps should include but not be limited to immediate contact by Secretary of Defense Cohen with the Indonesian military, urging them not to use their guns against their own people.

The immediate freeze on all US weapons, spare parts and ammunition sales to Indonesia, including the financing of dual-use technologies through the Export-Import Bank.

In conjunction with the United Nations, dispatch an emergency relief group composed of non-governmental representatives, including human rights and famine-relief groups, to monitor the military and provide relief to famine stricken areas of East Timor and Indonesia.

Suspend further IMF loans to Indonesia until fundamental human rights are established under a new government.

Mr. Speaker, you have the opportunity to send a message to the Indonesian people and the entire world that the United States will not support dictators who deny their people basic human rights. The time to act is now.




--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi

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OfflineRhizoid
carbon unit
Male

Registered: 01/22/00
Posts: 1,739
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 4 months, 8 days
Re: Pictures of Saddam's Sons [Re: Xlea321]
    #1750150 - 07/26/03 03:02 AM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Yes, and the United States even sent weapons to Stalin on several occasions.

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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Pictures of Saddam's Sons [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1750417 - 07/26/03 09:47 AM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Not quite the same thing.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi

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OfflineRhizoid
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Registered: 01/22/00
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Re: Pictures of Saddam's Sons [Re: Xlea321]
    #1750496 - 07/26/03 10:55 AM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Not quite the same thing.




Not even when Stalin used some of those weapons to massacre soviet citizens for no other reason than the fact that they wanted to be free and live in peace? Are you sure you wouldn't have opposed that use of american weapons if you had been alive at the time?

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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Pictures of Saddam's Sons [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1750665 - 07/26/03 12:09 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Do you mean during World War II? 

Where is this bizarre "point" going? Do you feel that supporting Suharto was as worthy a cause as defeating Hitler?  :confused:


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi

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OfflineRhizoid
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Male

Registered: 01/22/00
Posts: 1,739
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 4 months, 8 days
Re: Pictures of Saddam's Sons [Re: Xlea321]
    #1750674 - 07/26/03 12:15 PM (20 years, 10 months ago)

Yes, World War II. The war in which Stalin made territorial conquests and slaughtered many of his own citizens.

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