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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Best Assault Rifle
    #17413379 - 12/18/12 06:05 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I live in the Miami / Fort Lauderdale area. It's a relatively dangerous place to live for a first-world city, and ironically the nicer your neighborhood, the more likely you are to be the victim of a home invasion robbery. It happened to a neighbor a couple of years ago and the following month I had a shiny new Florida CCW and a 9mm CZ in the nightstand by my bed.

I'm not much into guns, but I'm big on individual freedom for everyone who doesn't hurt others. And contrary to popular opinion, I also believe that had the teachers in that school that got shot up been packing, our coward shooter would have gone somewhere else with a softer target. At the least he would have been put down LONG before he got to child number 20.

Anyway, I'm buying an assault rifle this weekend before they become illegal. My government already thinks it can tell me what I'm allowed to put in my body. I'll be damned if I let it take away my right to defend myself any way I see fit when attacked. And I have a feeling when the inevitable ban comes, existing owners will be exempt.

So, I've narrowed it down to either an AR-15 or the M16 flavor. Anyone have some advice on which is a better choice? Or if you have a third option in mind, lay it on me. Price is not a big consideration. Quality and reliability is.

Thanks in advance for any advice.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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InvisibleGilgamesh18
Herbivore Man

Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 11,671
Re: Best Assault Rifle [Re: Diploid]
    #17413486 - 12/18/12 06:17 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

AK-47 is incredibly durable easy to use unlike the ar while cool not as simple to maintain as an ak.


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Best Assault Rifle [Re: Gilgamesh18]
    #17413537 - 12/18/12 06:25 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I've shot an AK-47. It's not very accurate compared to the AR-15 and it's heavier too. It was designed to survive mud, water, rain, and dirty combat conditions, not to be a fun weapon to shoot or for personal protection.

If I ever get a second weapon of this type, it'll probably be an AK-47, but not the first.

Thanks for the suggestion though. :thumbup:


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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InvisibleGilgamesh18
Herbivore Man

Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 11,671
Re: Best Assault Rifle [Re: Diploid]
    #17414439 - 12/18/12 09:01 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

No problem and yea accuracy is not the best however most of my gun needs are in the wilderness and having the simple maintenance is a plus. If your looking for strictly home defense I might go with some kind of handgun.


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Offlinetotal
Post Office Tyvek Advocator
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 11,406
Last seen: 3 months, 6 days
Re: Best Assault Rifle [Re: Gilgamesh18]
    #17414530 - 12/18/12 09:21 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

For home defense you want a nice shotty...
So your not blasting through you walls hitting your kids or neighbors...

I would suggest a Tach Seiga...
Ive been wanting the one from RedJacket for awhile...

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Invisible4runner
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 15,406
Loc: State of Jefferson
Re: Best Assault Rifle [Re: Diploid]
    #17414631 - 12/18/12 09:46 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
Anyway, I'm buying an assault rifle this weekend before they become illegal.




Good luck, they are all dried up in my neck of the woods. As in you can find lots of hunting rifles and lever actions, but everything in black is missing from the shelves, as well as all the magazines.

Happens every time a ban in the works.

Get what you can, an ar-15(.223) or ar-10(.308) is a great choice. I am by no mean an expert, actually I don't know a lot about many of the manufacturers and what all the differences are, but if you can find any, get one.
A co-worker that knows his shit tried to find an ar, ended up with a Springfield m???? basically a m16.

The federal background check took 2 hours. They are hammered.

God speed.

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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Best Assault Rifle [Re: 4runner]
    #17414693 - 12/18/12 10:01 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

If your looking for strictly home defense I might go with some kind of handgun.

Yeah like I mentioned in the OP, I have a CZ 9mm sami-automatic in a drawer by my bed. This will be my second firearm purchase.

The federal background check took 2 hours. They are hammered.

I have a concealed carry license so there's no background check or waiting period for me. I can walk in, pay, and walk out with my gun because they already spent a month doing a background check on me complete with fingerprints when I got the concealed carry license.

A local gun shop has several flavors of new AR-15 in stock. It's looking more and more like one of those is coming home with me this week.


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Invisible4runner
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 15,406
Loc: State of Jefferson
Re: Best Assault Rifle [Re: Diploid] * 1
    #17414767 - 12/18/12 10:16 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Oh didn't think about or know that a CCW licence would stop a background check. Would they not still need to verify that your piece of paper is valid? Pretty sure that wouldn't fly here. Still have to be put on hold.

Yeah, I do live in Southern Oregon so stuff dries up quick here. It is night and day from northern Oregon(Eugene to Portland).

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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Best Assault Rifle [Re: 4runner]
    #17415002 - 12/18/12 11:03 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Would they not still need to verify that your piece of paper is valid?

Yeah, well it's not just a piece of paper. It's a full-on state issued ID complete with a color picture, magnetic strip, and anti-counterfeiting hologram. It's also hard laminated. It looks a bit like a driver license.

When you guy a gun, they naturally run the CCW license in real-time like a cop would run your driver license. That's how it gets instantly revoked if you get convicted of something or get committed to a psychiatric facility.

To get the CCW, you have to take a gun safety and proficiency class and a class on gun laws where you learn what you can and can't do, where you can and can't carry, and the consequences if you break any of the rules. They also take your fingerprints and spend a full month running FBI background checks including Interpol.

Once that's done, there's really no reason for a waiting period. All the checks are done and if you have the license you almost-certainly have other weapons so a waiting period doesn't accomplish anything.


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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OfflineEllis Dee
Archangel
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Registered: 06/29/01
Posts: 13,104
Loc: Fire in the sky
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
Re: Best Assault Rifle [Re: Diploid]
    #17415297 - 12/19/12 12:14 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I think you mean weapon, because an assault rifle has the ability to fire on full auto, which is very different than an "assault weapon".


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"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

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InvisibleKilgore Trout
Yachts on the reg


Registered: 07/09/12
Posts: 9,863
Loc: Metro City, USA
Re: Best Assault Rifle [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #17415323 - 12/19/12 12:22 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

The SKS is an affordable yet durable option. It's cousins with the ak, but it's more accurate and doesn't have as large of a mag.

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
Re: Best Assault Rifle [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #17415750 - 12/19/12 05:02 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Rail_Gun said:
I think you mean weapon, because an assault rifle has the ability to fire on full auto, which is very different than an "assault weapon".





I don't think it really matters.  Its just a bullshit term, kind of like narcotic, abused by the law and now nobody knows what the fuck it means.  In context its clear Diploid is talking about a gun that has scary things like pistol grips, deadly bayonet lugs, or terrifying barrel shrouds.

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OfflineLarrythescaryrex
teardrop on the fire
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Registered: 07/19/00
Posts: 11,004
Loc: further down the spiral
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
Re: Best Assault Rifle [Re: johnm214]
    #17415981 - 12/19/12 07:25 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

the SKS is more accurate than the AK in my opinion, cheap, and takes easily available ammo, conversion kits to high capacity fixed magazines exist.


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RIP Acidic_Sloth

Sunset_Mission said:
"larry the scary rex
verily scary when thoroughly vexed
invoke the shadows and dust, cast a hex
mercifully massacring memories masterfully
relocate from Ur to 8th density and become a cosmic bully
mulder and scully couldn't decipher his glyphs
invoke the shadows and dust, smoke infernal spliffs"
April 24th 2011

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Offlinemaccc
Tree licking bear f-er.

Registered: 09/10/10
Posts: 63
Loc: Commie-land, USA
Last seen: 10 years, 9 months
Re: Best Assault Rifle [Re: Diploid]
    #17416023 - 12/19/12 07:44 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
I've shot an AK-47. It's not very accurate compared to the AR-15 and it's heavier too. It was designed to survive mud, water, rain, and dirty combat conditions, not to be a fun weapon to shoot or for personal protection.

If I ever get a second weapon of this type, it'll probably be an AK-47, but not the first.

Thanks for the suggestion though. :thumbup:





kel tec su-16ca. m16 magazine, ak piston driven, folds in half for storage/hiking, integral picatinny rail, and a stock threaded barrel... oh and it weighs less than an ar-15, and comes with a bipod built in.

the hyundai of weapons. cheap but quietly putting 270+hp to the wheels, and it drives like a caddy. :smile:


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Anonymous #1

Re: Best Assault Rifle *DELETED* [Re: maccc]
    #17416331 - 12/19/12 09:38 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Post deleted by Anonymous

Reason for deletion: .


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Offlinemaccc
Tree licking bear f-er.

Registered: 09/10/10
Posts: 63
Loc: Commie-land, USA
Last seen: 10 years, 9 months
Re: Best Assault Rifle [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #17416566 - 12/19/12 10:48 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Anonymous said:
Quote:

maccc said:
kel tec su-16ca.




I just came.




check out the kel tec owners group pictures of how people have modded them out. truly epic. <ktog.org>


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InvisibleAsante
Omnicyclion prophet
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Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,643
Re: Best Assault Rifle [Re: Diploid]
    #17416649 - 12/19/12 11:09 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

An AK47 wont ever break down and consists of thick solid parts, so if assault rifles become illegal and parts become illegal, you won't need those.

If you cant effectively protect your home with an AK47 you need to move.

In a home defense situation its rare to fire a shot across more than 100ft so you don't need super accuracy, and the AK delivers a solid chunk of metal on target, a very persuasive argument. And how about a 30 round mag? That wont hurt.


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Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here

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InvisibleHiker
keeps it real
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Registered: 08/27/12
Posts: 68
Re: Best Assault Rifle [Re: Asante]
    #17416706 - 12/19/12 11:23 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

:nothingtoadd:


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InvisibleLySergic D
Drink all day and rock all night
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Registered: 10/20/11
Posts: 7,583
Re: Best Assault Rifle [Re: Hiker]
    #17416766 - 12/19/12 11:37 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Im personally not into guns. MY father on the other hand likes guns and is a former jarhead.
He told me that a real AK47 is made of cheap stamped steel. When you shake the gun, you can hear the parts inside moving around and that is why they dont jam as often as other guns.

Personally, if i was getting a gun for home protection, id go with a shotgun.
A assault rifle bullet is just gonna go through walls. Plus, shotguns spread the shot. That way, all you do is aim in the general vicinity of the perp.


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Broken heart don't feel so bad
You ain't got half of what you thought you had
Rock you baby to and fro
Not too fast and not too slow

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InvisibleGBurger717
Let me be me! I luv sum me!


Registered: 07/12/12
Posts: 187
Loc: USA Flag
Re: Best Assault Rifle [Re: LySergic D]
    #17416835 - 12/19/12 12:00 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

buy an american made ak47. not one with parts from all over the world.... you will see the diffrence and retract every word you said about the ak


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"If only one party supports a bill, it's probably not a very good bill. If both parties support it, you can be sure that however good it seems on the surface, under the covers it's worse than you could possibly imagine" - Me myself and I 08-02-12


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty - Jefferson

The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first. - Jefferson

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InvisibleLySergic D
Drink all day and rock all night
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/20/11
Posts: 7,583
Re: Best Assault Rifle [Re: GBurger717]
    #17416849 - 12/19/12 12:05 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I cant buy any sort of gun let alone a AK47.
Like i said though, i dont really know much about guns.


--------------------


Broken heart don't feel so bad
You ain't got half of what you thought you had
Rock you baby to and fro
Not too fast and not too slow

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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Best Assault Rifle [Re: Asante]
    #17416947 - 12/19/12 12:31 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

In a home defense situation its rare to fire a shot across more than 100ft

I understand all that. That's why I have a 9. The AR-15 purchase is a matter of principle (and to shoot for fun). I've never killed anyone, never assaulted anyone, and I haven't even been in a fight since 6th grade. I have no criminal record and rarely even speed.

There is no reason why the government of the Home of the Free should tell me that I can't have a dangerous toy when I have already demonstrated the capacity to own it safely and proficiency using it on a gun range.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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OfflineDraden
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Registered: 07/27/11
Posts: 231
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
Re: Best Assault Rifle [Re: Diploid] * 3
    #17417346 - 12/19/12 02:17 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

To actually address your initial post: You narrowed down your choices to an AR-15 and an M16? The AR-15 is simply the civilian legal model of the military's M16. So if you're actually going to be getting an M16, you're in for a long, drawn out Class III weapon purchase in the range of 15-25,000 dollars. Assuming you were meaning AR-15 vs AK-47 I can offer these insights.

ARs are more accurate. AKs have more stopping power. ARs are more expensive to shoot (33cents a round and more versus the AK's 23 cents or so) ARs generally have higher maintenance requirements (unless you buy a piston driven model) With that in mind, I own an AR-15, and have shot many AK variants.

In an AR. Look at the main manufacturers, especially the ones the federal government does business with. Armalite, Colt, Bushmaster, Rock  River Arms. I would add LWRC, DPMS, and Del-Ton to the short list of manufacturers to trust. You want a chrome lined steel barrel. Not chrome-moly. They have a longer functional life. If you can afford the 2000 bucks or so it would take to get a full LWRC piston driven upper, I would go that route, as it will bring reliability up to near the AK. Get a collapsible buttstock (AR-15 in an M4 style configuration) and you'll want to look at a quad rail, as the firearm can be a very versatile tool.

In an AK, you will most likely want to buy a Saiga, or an American made, milled AK. If you get a Saiga 7.62 sporter, you'll have to have it modified to accept high capacity magazines. American made AKs start around the same price as an AR. If you MUST by a non-Saiga or American AK, you're going to end up with a Century import, most likely from Romania or Yugoslavia. Are they as good as the Saiga or US Made? Nope. Will they still do everything you want them to do? Most likely.

If I were you, looking at the long run of a possible weapons ban, and the difficulty of finding ammo/parts, I would go with an AK-47 variant. They can work for a long time with no maintenance, and ammo is abundant and cheap. For 500 bucks, you can pick up sealed tins of a few THOUSAND AK rounds.

Just my two cents. My next rifle purchase will be an AK. Probably a Saiga. If you want a breakdown of ARs you're looking at with pros/cons, you can shoot me a message. I'm a former active duty Marine with years of weapons instruction experience, so I should be able to give you good info.

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Offlinemaccc
Tree licking bear f-er.

Registered: 09/10/10
Posts: 63
Loc: Commie-land, USA
Last seen: 10 years, 9 months
Re: Best Assault Rifle [Re: Draden]
    #17417832 - 12/19/12 04:10 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Draden said:
To actually address your initial post: You narrowed down your choices to an AR-15 and an M16? The AR-15 is simply the civilian legal model of the military's M16. So if you're actually going to be getting an M16, you're in for a long, drawn out Class III weapon purchase in the range of 15-25,000 dollars. Assuming you were meaning AR-15 vs AK-47 I can offer these insights.

ARs are more accurate. AKs have more stopping power. ARs are more expensive to shoot (33cents a round and more versus the AK's 23 cents or so) ARs generally have higher maintenance requirements (unless you buy a piston driven model) With that in mind, I own an AR-15, and have shot many AK variants.

In an AR. Look at the main manufacturers, especially the ones the federal government does business with. Armalite, Colt, Bushmaster, Rock  River Arms. I would add LWRC, DPMS, and Del-Ton to the short list of manufacturers to trust. You want a chrome lined steel barrel. Not chrome-moly. They have a longer functional life. If you can afford the 2000 bucks or so it would take to get a full LWRC piston driven upper, I would go that route, as it will bring reliability up to near the AK. Get a collapsible buttstock (AR-15 in an M4 style configuration) and you'll want to look at a quad rail, as the firearm can be a very versatile tool.

In an AK, you will most likely want to buy a Saiga, or an American made, milled AK. If you get a Saiga 7.62 sporter, you'll have to have it modified to accept high capacity magazines. American made AKs start around the same price as an AR. If you MUST by a non-Saiga or American AK, you're going to end up with a Century import, most likely from Romania or Yugoslavia. Are they as good as the Saiga or US Made? Nope. Will they still do everything you want them to do? Most likely.

If I were you, looking at the long run of a possible weapons ban, and the difficulty of finding ammo/parts, I would go with an AK-47 variant. They can work for a long time with no maintenance, and ammo is abundant and cheap. For 500 bucks, you can pick up sealed tins of a few THOUSAND AK rounds.

Just my two cents. My next rifle purchase will be an AK. Probably a Saiga. If you want a breakdown of ARs you're looking at with pros/cons, you can shoot me a message. I'm a former active duty Marine with years of weapons instruction experience, so I should be able to give you good info.




why even mess with that whole argument. su-16ca's are california legal. meaning they aren't affected by the assault weapon ban. they will be legal no matter what the commie pig in the white house tries to do!! and they are as cheap as the cheapest ak, and cheaper than the cheapest ar-15.


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OfflineVibeUp
Stranger
Male

Registered: 04/20/12
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Re: Best Assault Rifle [Re: maccc] * 1
    #17418026 - 12/19/12 05:03 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Mossberg 500 shotgun (short barrel). You can't miss and it has enough power to stop an intruder cold.


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"When you get the message, hang up the phone."—Alan Watts

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OfflineDraden
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Registered: 07/27/11
Posts: 231
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
Re: Best Assault Rifle [Re: maccc]
    #17418995 - 12/19/12 08:09 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

maccc said:
why even mess with that whole argument. su-16ca's are california legal. meaning they aren't affected by the assault weapon ban. they will be legal no matter what the commie pig in the white house tries to do!! and they are as cheap as the cheapest ak, and cheaper than the cheapest ar-15.




It will be impossible for anyone to ever ban assault weapons in this country. Even the idiots in office realize that many MANY people would simply not give up their assault weapons. If you already have it, you're going to be able to have it for the rest of time.

Without even arguing that point, the Kel Tec is a great gun for ultra-lightweight purposes: backpacking or last-resort carbine. But if you want a solid, multipurpose, and still relatively inexpensive weapon, you can find an AR to fit your needs.

Yeah, if you want an inexpensive gun that will do the job, get the Kel Tec. If you want a multipurpose weapon that will serve you anywhere you go, get an AR. And, like you said, the Kel Tec is not an assault weapon.. It'll be available later, even if the ARs aren't.

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OfflineSteelPanther


Registered: 05/28/12
Posts: 3,453
Loc: The Energy
Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
Re: Best Assault Rifle [Re: Draden]
    #17419033 - 12/19/12 08:19 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

The newly made version of the steyr aug, the msar stg-556. It Is just as good as an ar-15 in all their benefits but has even more good things about it. It is very reliable just like the new ar-15's thats like the first thing you need to know. Also your average "m4" will be around 30'' long with a 16'' barrel, well the stg-556 has a 20'' barrel and is only 30'' long as well. The barrel can come out in about 2 seconds which means you can fit this gun in a small/medium bag. If you get the scoped version it has a very good scope which is attached to the gun so once you adjust it it will stay good unless you really bang it up. This gun is simply better in most ways since it is smaller with a larger barrel.


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Everything I say on here is not true, I am an insecure person who lies about doing drugs and stuff to make myself feel good. So any illegal things I may have talked about are all fictional.

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InvisibleKilgore Trout
Yachts on the reg


Registered: 07/09/12
Posts: 9,863
Loc: Metro City, USA
Re: Best Assault Rifle [Re: SteelPanther]
    #17419644 - 12/19/12 10:26 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

The Ruger Mini-14 Tactical looks pretty nice. I think I'd go with that if I had the funds.

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Offlinemaccc
Tree licking bear f-er.

Registered: 09/10/10
Posts: 63
Loc: Commie-land, USA
Last seen: 10 years, 9 months
Re: Best Assault Rifle [Re: Draden]
    #17420887 - 12/20/12 07:42 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Draden said:
Yeah, if you want an inexpensive gun that will do the job, get the Kel Tec. If you want a multipurpose weapon that will serve you anywhere you go, get an AR. And, like you said, the Kel Tec is not an assault weapon.. It'll be available later, even if the ARs aren't.




i have a prejudice against the direct impingement. not that its not functional, but gas piston will fire thousands of rounds without needing a cleaning. that being said, if you have to fire your rifle more than 1000 times without an opportunity to clean it, there is a larger issue (like lots of somebodies want you dead).


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InvisibleAdden
I'm a teapot
Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 39,201
Loc: Flag
Re: Best Assault Rifle *DELETED* [Re: maccc]
    #17422352 - 12/20/12 02:14 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Post deleted by Dystopia

Reason for deletion: .


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InvisibleKilgore Trout
Yachts on the reg


Registered: 07/09/12
Posts: 9,863
Loc: Metro City, USA
Re: Best Assault Rifle [Re: Adden]
    #17422432 - 12/20/12 02:29 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Dystopia said:
I wish I had a desert eagle :sad:



The local Cabella's sells a .44 Mag Desert Eagle.

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OfflineDraden
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Registered: 07/27/11
Posts: 231
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
Re: Best Assault Rifle [Re: Kilgore Trout]
    #17422674 - 12/20/12 03:14 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Desert Eagles are the biggest waste of good metal, ever. Big, clunky, heavier than hell, and totally inefficient. If you wanted to big obnoxious handgun that would actually be worthwhile, look at the FN FiveseveN. Shoots a submachinegun/PDF round at near rifle speeds with similar ballistics. Still kind of obnoxious, though.

And as far as this thread was concerned, he was looking at ARs. And I totally agree with maccc, direct impingement is far from an ideal setup, which is why I tried to push him towards the piston driven uppers. The cost is kind of prohibitive, but it's worth it. Even so, I would choose a direct impingement upper over the KelTec any day, for general personal defense. I would certainly have a KelTec in a bug-out bag, but it would never be my primary defense weapon.

Oh, and as far as direct impingement goes, I have personally fired ARs over a thousand rounds in a day with no cleaning. Yeah, you may have the occasional malfunction, but if your weapon is in good shape and well maintained, it will continue to function. At worst, hit it with a few drops of CLP and put it back into action.

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OfflineClaudeRains
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Re: Best Assault Rifle [Re: Draden]
    #17431520 - 12/22/12 09:21 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

In home defense situations, a shotgun or handgun is a better choice than a rifle. Of course, there's a lot of room open for debate about that, but it does depend on certain factors.

My personal opinion is that shotguns are better, mainly because they don't penetrate nearly as much as rifle bullets (better when in residential). A semi auto like the Remington 1100 can give you the extra firepower without having to manually pump.

That being said, if you want to go with a rifle I'd recommend a Mini-14. They're compact and fun, but not nearly as 'tactical' as AR-15s are (and depending on your outlook, a plus).

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Anonymous #2

Re: Best Assault Rifle [Re: ClaudeRains]
    #17435357 - 12/23/12 02:01 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Well, since you decided on an AR-15, that narrows things down.  Now all you need to do is decide on a barrel length (16", 20", etc), gas sytem (piston or direct impingement), upper receiver type (A2, A3, A4), hand guard type (single, dual, tri or quad rail, "classic type", or many more), caliber (5.56, .308, 6.8SPC, .450 Bushmaster, etc. etc.), stock type (2 position, 6 position, magpul, fixed, folding, etc.), sights (A2 style detachable or fixed, pop up, peep hole, HK style front, cowitnessed with optic) and optic type (ACOG, red dot, illuminated reticle) and accessories to go with your rail (vertical forend grip, laser, lights, etc. etc. etc.).

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Re: Best Assault Rifle [Re: Anonymous #2]
    #17560335 - 01/17/13 12:14 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Without reading all the yays and nays. Please do not refer to a civilian ak47 or ar 15 as an assualt rifle. They are sporting rifles, semi automatic rifles. Assualt rifles are fully auto, which you will not easily purchase. I prefer ar's becasue I am not a commie. The ak is a commie rifle. PLus when it comes to sport shooting, the ak is not as good as an ar for hitting a can at a half mile. For truly home defense I would get a shot gun. And ar or ak could possibly kill your neighbor where as a shot gun will most likely not be able to do much damage if the projectile leave the room. I keep a guage in my bed room. If yo have children then you def need a guage. Hand guns are close quarters but will do the trick with a light a laser on it.


--------------------
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Re: Best Assault Rifle [Re: VibeUp]
    #17576864 - 01/20/13 01:29 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

VibeUp said:
Mossberg 500 shotgun (short barrel). You can't miss and it has enough power to stop an intruder cold.






This thread was over a month ago.  Mossberg 500.


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Anonymous #3

Re: Best Assault Rifle [Re: tahoe]
    #17577035 - 01/20/13 03:08 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

This. It's extremely doubtful, even in an extremely high-end, large house, that you would need anything more than a shotgun. Semi-auto of you'd like, but anything more is overkill. The Serbu Super Shorty is sexy(3 rounds max), if you're set on a rifle, a bullpup setup may benefit you the most, if you're looking for an " Assault Rifle" platform because it's quite shorter. But, Serbu Super Shorty. Highly mobile in a house, 12 gauge, quite a bit of stopping power. It's an AOW instead of an assault rifle, but it's better. If you need more than 4 rounds to kill, then you're not a good shot.

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Re: Best Assault Rifle [Re: Anonymous #3]
    #17577485 - 01/20/13 08:36 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

It's extremely doubtful, even in an extremely high-end, large house, that you would need anything more than a shotgun.

This isn't just for defense. As I said in the OP, I have a CZ 9mm semi-automatic handgun to defend my home. This purchase is on principle because I don't think my government has any right telling someone with no criminal record, who is mentally healthy, and who is rather a pacifist who hates violence that he can't own a gun.

So I'm getting one before the idiotic American sheeple overreact in the usual knee-jerk way to whatever brainwashing they see on their TV.

And it's a done deal anyway. I've purchased an AR-15. I'm waiting for it to arrive at the gun store. They were sold out. Mine should arrive in a few days.


--------------------
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2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
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4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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InvisibleAerial Boundaries
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Re: Best Assault Rifle [Re: Diploid]
    #17578195 - 01/20/13 11:31 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

"Personally, if i was getting a gun for home protection, id go with a shotgun.
A assault rifle bullet is just gonna go through walls. Plus, shotguns spread the shot. That way, all you do is aim in the general vicinity of the perp."

No doubt I'll get a lot of flak for this but: The way I take it, you just want to insure that you kill whoever it is and turn them into a bloody mess. I guess some people are fine with that. But if I were getting something for self defence I'd make sure it was accurate enough that I could cause non-fatal injuries, probably to the limbs. Frankly killing another human being for taking or intruding on your property is unnecessarily brutish and nasty.

If my idea of how indiscriminate or powerful a shotgun is is flawed, then correct me.


--------------------
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Re: Best Assault Rifle [Re: Aerial Boundaries]
    #17578255 - 01/20/13 11:45 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Aerial Boundaries said:
But if I were getting something for self defence I'd make sure it was accurate enough that I could cause non-fatal injuries, probably to the limbs.




:laugh2:

Yup. Because the self-defense experts are wrong and shooting to wound is the way to go.

Someone alert the lawyers as well.


Will you be shooting from the hip? Or will it be over your shoulder?

Perhaps you'll ask the bad-guy to stand perfectly still so you don't miss.



Tell him/her not to make you laugh so your aim isn't bad.


Of course when IF you wound them and piss them off, perhaps they'll thank you kindly for not killing them as they shove the gun up your ass.

Dry. And sideways.


--------------------
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Re: Best Assault Rifle [Re: Aerial Boundaries] * 2
    #17578578 - 01/20/13 12:59 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Aerial Boundaries said:
But if I were getting something for self defence I'd make sure it was accurate enough that I could cause non-fatal injuries, probably to the limbs. Frankly killing another human being for taking or intruding on your property is unnecessarily brutish and nasty.






What makes you think shooting someone's limbs results in nonfatal injuries?  As far as I can tell, this is a result of action movies or some nonsense like that.  Without rapid treatment such as tourniquetting (which will likely result in loss of the limb) the person will easily die if you hit a decent sized vessle of the type in the upper arm and leg.

More to the point, why are you shooting them in the limb in the first place if not to kill?  Are you under the impression that when you get shot you become paralyzed or something?  Someone shot in the leg, even severing the femoral artery, is still alive and fully conscious.  Whatever action they were intending on perpetrating that caused you to shoot them is still available to them, so what is the point?

Guns are deadly weapons and should not be used except when killing is appropriate.  In any situation where cuasing someone pain and loss of some/all use of a limb is sufficient, you likely don't need to kill them anyways.  Attitudes like this are dangerous and silly- it lowers the expectation of what will happen when a gun is discharged to an unrealistically low one.  Any time you shoot someone you should be comfortable with killing them.

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Re: Best Assault Rifle [Re: johnm214]
    #17579454 - 01/20/13 02:54 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

For the record, modern medicine has made the application of tourniquets a much less risky procedure. We were taught that a properly applied tourniquet could be left in place for some hours before the limb would be irreparably damaged. But this is beside the overall point.

Like the previous posted said, if you're are going to employ a firearm, you must be comfortable with killing the intended target. If you are looking more for bodily injury, get yourself a machete or baseball bat. Guns are a final solution, when one believes one's life is seriously at risk, and necessitates the taking of someone else's life to ensure one's own survival.

Aim for center mass, or the groin area. Shoot twice for hydraulic shock. And survive.

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Re: Best Assault Rifle [Re: Draden]
    #17579815 - 01/20/13 03:52 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

ak47's would be baller in the post apocalyptic setting and all that hoo ha ha, but when it comes to home defense, a lot of people neglect to consider that 7.62 has a pesky reputation for going through walls. I get that people are attracted to the heavier more powerful round, but that in itself has it's cons if you live in a neighborhood, or anywhere a frisky stray round could fuck someone up that you don't mean to hit.

I'd go with an ar 15 just out of my comfortability with that style rifle, but if you're still talking about home defense, if you got a rail system on that puppy you could hook up all your nifty nightlights and scary lazers or whatever. Got it ak's can have rails too, but you know what I mean, AR's almost allways have that shit. Or it can be replaced for a couple bucks.


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Re: Best Assault Rifle [Re: SleepAid]
    #17579823 - 01/20/13 03:53 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Good AK's cost the same as an AR.

Saigas are total piece of shit so a cheap Ak isn't even worth anyone's while. Arsenal makes a good one.


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Re: Best Assault Rifle [Re: withoutawire]
    #17583460 - 01/21/13 05:50 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

I just like th look of the classic ak-47. It is just such an iconic image.

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Re: Best Assault Rifle [Re: joshisstoned]
    #17594973 - 01/23/13 04:51 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

bushmaster xm-15


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Re: Best Assault Rifle [Re: coorslight]
    #17632173 - 01/29/13 09:45 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

the best rifle is the Ruger mini-14. Period. It has the reliability of the AK & the gloriousness of the AR combined. Use .223/5.56, it will not go thru a bunch of walls like some think. there are vids & tests online proving pistols &  bucckshot go thru moar walls because the slugs r too slow//heavy too fragmennt on several layers of drywall, but 223's are light&fast.


This is my tactical plan of action if i'm the victim of a home invasion. It is flawless.



--------------------

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Re: Best Assault Rifle [Re: Elitist]
    #17639916 - 01/30/13 07:47 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Elitist said:
the best rifle is the Ruger mini-14. Period.




Just upgrade the iron sights or put some optics on it. Those stock iron sight are not pleasant, at least to me.

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Re: Best Assault Rifle [Re: 4runner]
    #17641402 - 01/31/13 12:15 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

anunnakian said:
Quote:

Elitist said:
the best rifle is the Ruger mini-14. Period.




Just upgrade the iron sights or put some optics on it. Those stock iron sight are not pleasant, at least to me.



i hit clay pigeons at 100 yards (300 feet) easily w/ iron sights and got the vids to prove it. thats a fist sized target.


--------------------

Edited by Elitist (01/31/13 12:17 AM)

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Re: Best Assault Rifle [Re: Elitist]
    #17724253 - 01/31/13 11:01 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Elitist said:
the best rifle is the Ruger mini-14. Period. It has the reliability of the AK & the gloriousness of the AR combined. Use .223/5.56, it will not go thru a bunch of walls like some think. there are vids & tests online proving pistols &  bucckshot go thru moar walls because the slugs r too slow//heavy too fragmennt on several layers of drywall, but 223's are light&fast.


This is my tactical plan of action if i'm the victim of a home invasion. It is flawless.








NO. Ruger rifles are notorious for having issues and being pieces of shit with random lemons. DO NOT BUY ONE. Get yourself a pistol grip and all the modern upgrades to shoot more comfortable with an AR or AK.


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Re: Best Assault Rifle [Re: withoutawire]
    #17725437 - 02/01/13 08:37 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

I just picked up an ak-47 in case the ban goes through. I love people who don't watch the news. Brand new in the case for $250. The clips will be a bitch to get now! I really wanted a few 75 round drums.

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Re: Best Assault Rifle [Re: joshisstoned]
    #17725604 - 02/01/13 09:34 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Did anyone else here catch Gabrielle Giffords speaking this week saying that... tooooo..................many.....................children.................. die from gun violence over the 20 who got shot recently. This is justification for banning guns.

But incredibly she forgot to mention that 17,000 children starve to death every day around the world and I don't see her outrage over that. That number is not a typo.

All these proponents of gun bans are making decisions based on emotion instead of facts and rationality. It will be our species' undoing.


--------------------
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2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Best Assault Rifle [Re: Diploid]
    #17725739 - 02/01/13 10:09 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

I already have all the rifles I need. Ammo is gonna be the bitch.

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Re: Best Assault Rifle [Re: joshisstoned]
    #17725941 - 02/01/13 11:02 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Just out of curiosity, why the AR-15?

I imagine the .223 is not as powerful as the 5.56nato, so won't be going through many walls. For this reason I would reccomend the P90.

Now, the way it loads is unconventional, but with 50 rounds if they aren't truely well and dead by the time you've spent 50 rounds then your problem is not reloading.

Just curious, why a rifle and not a shotgun? It's a good idea to have rifles, just, inside the tight confines of a coridor or a small room, scattershot is totally lethal.


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Re: Best Assault Rifle [Re: withoutawire]
    #17726249 - 02/01/13 12:03 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

withoutawire said:
Quote:

Elitist said:
the best rifle is the Ruger mini-14. Period. It has the reliability of the AK & the gloriousness of the AR combined. Use .223/5.56, it will not go thru a bunch of walls like some think. there are vids & tests online proving pistols &  bucckshot go thru moar walls because the slugs r too slow//heavy too fragmennt on several layers of drywall, but 223's are light&fast.


This is my tactical plan of action if i'm the victim of a home invasion. It is flawless.








NO. Ruger rifles are notorious for having issues and being pieces of shit with random lemons. DO NOT BUY ONE. Get yourself a pistol grip and all the modern upgrades to shoot more comfortable with an AR or AK.



Wrong. The AR-platform is far more notorious for reliability problems. The main thing w ruger is to use ruger factory mags.


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Re: Best Assault Rifle [Re: Diploid] * 1
    #17726902 - 02/01/13 02:32 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
Did anyone else here catch Gabrielle Giffords speaking this week saying that... tooooo..................many.....................children.................. die from gun violence over the 20 who got shot recently. This is justification for banning guns.

But incredibly she forgot to mention that 17,000 children starve to death every day around the world and I don't see her outrage over that. That number is not a typo.

All these proponents of gun bans are making decisions based on emotion instead of facts and rationality. It will be our species' undoing.





SAVE THE CHILDREN!

People seem to make their decisions based on the availability of the experience.  Some nut shoots up a school causing statistically miniscule problems and everybody is so concerned because it gets nonstop news coverage and is in every politicians speeches.  Millions of people crash their cars together every years killing thousands, and no big deal because it doesn't make the news.  A few nuts crash airplanes and everyone's rights are reduced and tons of money are spent hassling people because its newsworthy.  Many more times that number die from the flu every year, but that doesn't make the news so nobody cares.

The problem is people not even caring to make logical arguments- its all emotion.

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Re: Best Assault Rifle [Re: johnm214]
    #17728485 - 02/01/13 07:23 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Its a bit funny that everyone thinks shotguns are so good for houses, its probably because people think they spread out. If you have ever shot a shotgun you would know that inside a house you would have to aim just as much as any other gun. So a revolver would be the best for in a house.


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Re: Best Assault Rifle [Re: Elitist]
    #17733737 - 02/02/13 05:11 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Elitist said:
Quote:

withoutawire said:
Quote:

Elitist said:
the best rifle is the Ruger mini-14. Period. It has the reliability of the AK & the gloriousness of the AR combined. Use .223/5.56, it will not go thru a bunch of walls like some think. there are vids & tests online proving pistols &  bucckshot go thru moar walls because the slugs r too slow//heavy too fragmennt on several layers of drywall, but 223's are light&fast.


This is my tactical plan of action if i'm the victim of a home invasion. It is flawless.








NO. Ruger rifles are notorious for having issues and being pieces of shit with random lemons. DO NOT BUY ONE. Get yourself a pistol grip and all the modern upgrades to shoot more comfortable with an AR or AK.



Wrong. The AR-platform is far more notorious for reliability problems. The main thing w ruger is to use ruger factory mags.






Wrong. The ar-15 platform was adopted by the the military because it's a superior rifle. The mini 14 is not only cosmetically at a disadvantage but they are notorious for over heating and destroys the accuracy to the point where it's total fucking shit. So in turn you have to buy a heavy barrel and suddenly you still have a gun that continues to over heat and is way heavier than necessary. The gun is terribly in accurate firing rapid fire without a pistol grip or other cosmetic features that keep the gun from stabilizing. People who have issues with their AR's don't clean them or take care of them.


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Re: Best Assault Rifle [Re: withoutawire]
    #17735035 - 02/02/13 09:00 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

withoutawire said:
Quote:

Elitist said:
Quote:

withoutawire said:
Quote:

Elitist said:
the best rifle is the Ruger mini-14. Period. It has the reliability of the AK & the gloriousness of the AR combined. Use .223/5.56, it will not go thru a bunch of walls like some think. there are vids & tests online proving pistols &  bucckshot go thru moar walls because the slugs r too slow//heavy too fragmennt on several layers of drywall, but 223's are light&fast.


This is my tactical plan of action if i'm the victim of a home invasion. It is flawless.








NO. Ruger rifles are notorious for having issues and being pieces of shit with random lemons. DO NOT BUY ONE. Get yourself a pistol grip and all the modern upgrades to shoot more comfortable with an AR or AK.



Wrong. The AR-platform is far more notorious for reliability problems. The main thing w ruger is to use ruger factory mags.






Wrong. The ar-15 platform was adopted by the the military because it's a superior rifle. The mini 14 is not only cosmetically at a disadvantage but they are notorious for over heating and destroys the accuracy to the point where it's total fucking shit. So in turn you have to buy a heavy barrel and suddenly you still have a gun that continues to over heat and is way heavier than necessary. The gun is terribly in accurate firing rapid fire without a pistol grip or other cosmetic features that keep the gun from stabilizing. People who have issues with their AR's don't clean them or take care of them.



ur speakin of oldschool minis. mine came w/ pistol grip & thicker barrel straight from the factory. get over it


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Re: Best Assault Rifle [Re: Elitist]
    #17737637 - 02/03/13 10:30 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Congrats on the purchase Diploid! You'll have to post some pictures when it gets in. I've always wanted an AR-15. Super jealous.

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Re: Best Assault Rifle [Re: bryguy27007]
    #17740228 - 02/03/13 07:14 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

ur speakin of oldschool minis. mine came w/ pistol grip & thicker barrel straight from the factory. get over it





RIGHT. As I said, they come with new heavier barrels making the guns front heavy and abnormally heavy. I OWNED ONE AND SOLD IT FOR AN AR-15. It's way weighted improperly and has no pistol grip and foregrip is parallel to the ground. The AR-15 is a superior rifle in every way possible. The mini-14 can't be fired in rapid fire fast and the lack of after market parts makes it a difficult gun to own. The price of one is the same as an AR-15.


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Offlinejoshisstoned
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Re: Best Assault Rifle [Re: withoutawire]
    #17740515 - 02/03/13 08:19 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

I'm a lazy fuck, so an ak is my preferred. I don't want to mod it or tac it all up. I like the intimidating traditional look. It just nstantly strikes a sense of fear when you see that Black on brown in e c
Assic ak setup. It's even more evil looking with the under folding stock, but I'm going to just keep it as is. I love it. I'm fucked for ammo though. I'm too broke to stockup before this imminent ban.

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