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OfflineEchoVortex
(hard) member
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 859
Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
Are You Better Off Now?
    #1740970 - 07/23/03 01:47 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)



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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,778
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Are You Better Off Now? [Re: EchoVortex]
    #1740973 - 07/23/03 01:48 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Yes. Yes I am.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlineshakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Re: Are You Better Off Now? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1740985 - 07/23/03 01:54 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Me too.


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OfflineCornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)

Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 845
Loc: Austin, TX
Last seen: 13 years, 24 days
Re: Are You Better Off Now? [Re: EchoVortex]
    #1741019 - 07/23/03 02:07 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Interesting post.  Thanks!  :thumbup: 


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OfflineLearyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 29,769
Loc: High pride!
Last seen: 11 hours, 52 minutes
Re: Are You Better Off Now? [Re: EchoVortex]
    #1741346 - 07/23/03 03:42 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

As long as the Pres isn't getting blow jobs I don't care if the world goes to shit.





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Mp3 of the month: BLC - I Don't Wanna Go



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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: Are You Better Off Now? [Re: Learyfan]
    #1741373 - 07/23/03 03:46 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Yes.  It's finally nice to have some morality back in the White House. :smirk:


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlineshakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Re: Are You Better Off Now? [Re: silversoul7]
    #1741385 - 07/23/03 03:49 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I am sure the natural recession, 9/11, and figthing a major war has nothing to do with any of this. Bush and Cheney are pocketing all the money.


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OfflineCornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)

Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 845
Loc: Austin, TX
Last seen: 13 years, 24 days
Re: Are You Better Off Now? [Re: shakta]
    #1741398 - 07/23/03 03:52 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Exactly ^^^^^^


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OfflineCornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)

Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 845
Loc: Austin, TX
Last seen: 13 years, 24 days
Re: Are You Better Off Now? [Re: shakta]
    #1741581 - 07/23/03 04:28 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

While the stock market curve appears to be natural, the other three turn around much quicker than the stock market and appear very unnatural. WWII did wonders for the economy (got us out of the Great Depression!) so I wonder why a war isn't helping Bush? And Bush and Cheney are getting rich off their tax cuts for the rich (not to mention Cheney's Haliburton stock options).


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InvisibleJonnyOnTheSpot
Sober Surfer
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/27/02
Posts: 11,519
Loc: North Carolina
Re: Are You Better Off Now? [Re: EchoVortex]
    #1741716 - 07/23/03 06:17 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

hmmm maybe these tax cuts for the rich don't work as well as everyone was led to believe they would.  :shocked: 


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Religion is for people who are afraid of going to Hell; spirituality is for those who have been there.


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OfflineAzmodeus
Seeker

Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3,392
Loc: Lotus Land!! B.C.
Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
Re: Are You Better Off Now? [Re: JonnyOnTheSpot]
    #1741756 - 07/23/03 06:25 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)


But ya gotta admit, its an excellent way to keep the wealthy on top, while ever increasing the difference between thier lives, and 'normal' peoples...and by normal i mean not born into a family with millions of dollars.


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"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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Offlineshakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Re: Are You Better Off Now? [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1742376 - 07/23/03 09:10 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

You guys are funny. What tax cut for the 'rich'? You must be refering to the fact that the people that don't pay any taxes did not get a tax cut. If they did, it would not be a tax cut, it would be welfare. I was being sarcastic earlier BTW. You have to pay in to get a refund!


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InvisibleDoctorJ
Stranger
 Arcade Champion: Frogger

Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,451
Loc: space
Re: Are You Better Off Now? [Re: shakta]
    #1742615 - 07/23/03 10:14 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

i remember in the 90's employers always treated me well- because they had to. the unemployment rate was 2%. if my boss treated me like shit i could tell him to fuck off and get a new job the same day.

now everyone i know gets shit on by their boss, but they have to take it because there's no where else to go.


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peace, pot, and microdot!


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OfflineCornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)

Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 845
Loc: Austin, TX
Last seen: 13 years, 24 days
Re: Are You Better Off Now? [Re: shakta]
    #1743269 - 07/24/03 01:23 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

shakta said:
You guys are funny. What tax cut for the 'rich'? You must be refering to the fact that the people that don't pay any taxes did not get a tax cut. If they did, it would not be a tax cut, it would be welfare. I was being sarcastic earlier BTW. You have to pay in to get a refund!


Nope. I wasn't referring to the people that don't pay taxes. I was referring to the 14% average tax reduction given to the richest Americans, along with the reduction of the capital gains tax, which is something that mostly benefits the rich because they are the ones most likely to receive capital gains income.


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Are You Better Off Now? [Re: DoctorJ]
    #1743312 - 07/24/03 01:36 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

now everyone i know gets shit on by their boss, but they have to take it because there's no where else to go.

One of the key requirements of the "(rigged for the rich) free market" is a very insecure workforce. Thatcher ramped up unemployment in Britain way past the 3 million mark in the early 80's as a prelude to destroying workers rights, breaking up the unions and driving down wages.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Offlineshakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Re: Are You Better Off Now? [Re: Xlea321]
    #1744006 - 07/24/03 10:21 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

The rich also pay more than anyone else which is just stupid. I think a flat tax would make more sense than the retarded system we have now. The tax cuts that are going into effect help every class of taxpayers. The EIC refunds specifically help those that need it the most, unless of course they are not paying any taxes to begin with.


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Offlineshakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Re: Are You Better Off Now? [Re: shakta]
    #1744031 - 07/24/03 10:33 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Here is a good link that explains the tax cuts. It also shows that the cuts were not only for the 'rich', which is a typical liberal BS argument.

http://money.cnn.com/2003/05/22/pf/taxes/q_taxbill/


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OfflineCornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)

Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 845
Loc: Austin, TX
Last seen: 13 years, 24 days
Re: Are You Better Off Now? [Re: shakta]
    #1744607 - 07/24/03 02:36 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

shakta said:
The rich also pay more than anyone else which is just stupid. I think a flat tax would make more sense than the retarded system we have now.


You're entitled to your opinion, but let me give you just one reason (of very many reasons) why I believe a graduated tax is a good thing.

Let's say there are three taxpayers (I'm keeping the numbers simple to illustrate a point; the numbers can be expanded to fit a real world situation). Taxpayer #1 is poor and makes $10,000 a year. Taxpayer #2 is well off, and makes $100,000 a year. Tax payer #3 is a CEO, and makes $10,000,000 a year. Now, let's say the Government needs to raise $2,022,000 in taxes (I picked that number to keep this example simple).

To raise $2,022,000, the Government can impose a flat tax of 20% on each of the three people:

20% x $10,000 + 20% x $100,000 + 20% x $10,000,000 = $2,022,000

Or, it can impose a graduated tax. Let's say the Government decides to let the low income person off the hook and imposes a 0% tax on his tax bracket. And it decides to charge the well off person 10%. This is a huge tax savings for both people compared to the 20%, and will help them out considerably. But how does that effect the rich person? Well, the Government must now increase the tax rate from the flat 20% up to 20.12%:

0% x $10,000 + 10% x $100,000 + 20.12% x $10,000,000 = $2,022,000

The rich person will get by just fine with this minor 0.12% increase, while the others got a HUGE (50% and 100%) break.


I realize that real world numbers wouldn't give as dramatic a result as this, but the point is that taxing a poor person doesn't give the Government as much as taxing a rich person, so you'd have to tax the poor a lot more to get what you need under a flat tax system.

As I said this is just one of many reasons a graduated tax makes sense. Another is the fact that a tax on a poor person takes money away from his essentials, while a tax on rich person only takes money from his luxury items.

Another reason is that it takes money to make money. All things being equal (education, work experience, etc.) let's say one person is wealthier than another simply due to the fact that he inherited his daddy's fortune. It will be MUCH easier for this person to continue to acquire new wealth, as he can just lay $10,000,000 on a new project of his, whereas the poorer person with the same credtials wouldn't have this luxury and would have to work for 'the man' to raise this kind of capital before launching his own major project. Since both people are equally qualified, a graduated tax rate helps balance things out just a very little.


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OfflineCornholio
A liberal guy(on hiatus)

Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 845
Loc: Austin, TX
Last seen: 13 years, 24 days
Re: Are You Better Off Now? [Re: shakta]
    #1744621 - 07/24/03 02:40 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

shakta said:
Here is a good link that explains the tax cuts. It also shows that the cuts were not only for the 'rich', which is a typical liberal BS argument.

http://money.cnn.com/2003/05/22/pf/taxes/q_taxbill/


The tax cuts benefit the rich more than everyone else, which is why I called them "tax cuts for the rich". I realize that the middle and low income people still get something.

In any case, I want to keep emphasizing that these are NOT tax cuts anyways, they are tax deferments. We will have to pay for Bush's irresponsible spending through increased taxes sooner or later.


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Offlineshakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Re: Are You Better Off Now? [Re: Cornholio]
    #1744635 - 07/24/03 02:47 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

This is not a socialist country. Graduated taxes are just another form of socialism. Who are you to tell me, that I need to pay some poor guys way? This is were socialists and capitolists differ I guess. If someone is more fortunate than you, work hard and earn what you want. You will be a better person for it. Some people get an easier ride than others, that is just a fact of life. Life is not fair. 'Evening the playing field' makes me sick. It is just like the people who think we should not keep scores at kids sporting events. They have to learn that there are winners and losers in this world. If you want to be a winner, you have to work your ass off, even if you are behind from the beginning. I respect your opinion, it justs represents to me what is wrong in this country. We are raising a generation of people that think the world owes them something.

You didn't say anything about the tax cuts BTW. I think the link shows they are not for the 'rich' pretty well.


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