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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Our Infinite Universe... Infinite In So Many Ways
    #1740404 - 07/23/03 05:36 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

seemslikeasymbol said:
well, the way i see it, the reason that nobody has been able to answer this question is the fact that life in general has no meaning.



This is my philosophy. Everything, I believe, is completely random at first. We define our own meaning, there is NO predefined meaning (I haven't found one, unless it is to make meaning).
The way this thought is shaped in my mind, it seems to be the most perfect belief (I can't describe it anymore than what I am trying now). If you take away any meaning that we find on our own, and any meaning found by others (even the ones that have been continously reinforced throughout time), there is nothing. This is beautiful to me, because it allows us to create whatever meaning we desire. Its almost like a rebirth, except we aren't left completely helpless as a baby; we still hold onto our beliefs and ideas that work, are effective, and please us, the negative, unnecessary ones are cleared, freeing up a lot of energy.
I've used this to remodel my life for my definition of the better (it is all really subjective, from what are the right and wrong ideas, what has a true meaning and what doesn't), and I have felt the positive effects from this.
However, my results, what I've changed and what I've kept, aren't necessarily the same as what someone else would choose. But, even if me and the other person hold different ideas and find completely contradictory meanings, that doesn't mean one is right or wrong. We both are correct.
Ever read anything about superstring theory? I began digging into one of the most comrehensive and clear books on the subject at a friends (can't remember the title, possibly the word universe in the title, it was a black book...). To help one understand the new ideas they were presenting, so people could be on the same level necessary to understand what they were getting across, they caught everyone reading up to speed with the current paradigm on quantam physics and etc (I'm not too educated in the whole world myself). Off topic a bit, this seems like the most effective way of getting a point across, teaching a math exercise to a Chinese kid is not possible if he cannot understand English, or if you cannot speak Chinese (simple, simple example).
Anyways, I'm hoping most of you have already heard of this, since I will probably not do a good job of recalling all the details(it was quite a while ago); however, the book was talking about traveling at different speeds, and the effects it has on our perception of time. They used an example like this: Two countries were at war, and they decided to finally sign a truce. Neither country wanted to sign first, and one did not want to sign it on the others land, so they were on a traveling train whose tracks rode the border between the two countries. The compromise was that they would both sign the treaty at the same time, at a certain minute, they both would sign. People from both countries were at the train station, watching the train go by as they started to sign the treaty, and they had binoculars to watch them sign, to make sure they signed at the same time. On the train, both signed at the same time; however, because the train was moving, and the people standing outside were not, it created just a slight, slight difference in the perception of time, it appeared to them that one of them had signed it just a little bit earlier (it seems i missed one of the most important details, but just go with me here....if anyone has read this, please reinforce what I am saying). Anyways, although it was just a slight slight difference in time (the book pointed out that in space, with objects travelling near the speed of light, the difference becomes magnificent), it DOES exist... On the train, they both signed the treaty at the exact same time, however, outside, one had signed it slightly before (I'm guessing the one sitting closer to the front of the train).
The point I am trying to make is that there was ONE given scenario that seems as only one answer can exist (what time did both sign the paper?), and from different perspectives, two different, but both correct, answers existed. (I realize my example basically is ineffective, since I couldn't recall some of the vitals, but find the book, and it will be a lot more clear). Superstring theory seems to tie in chaos theory, quantam physics, etc.
But anyways, I believe that the universe is truly subjective (while both sides had different times for when the paper was signed, it was only signed ONCE). Who has the ultimate view of what was correct and what wasn't, what time was the correct one? The Ultimate Creator? He might have created the universe and everything in it... but that doesn't make his truth any more valid than my truth (even if he is of infinite wisdom, etc.).
Anyways, sorry for the long post, and the shitty example, but I think I may have sorta got my point across...maybe.
Peace, and thanks for reading.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinedaba
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Re: Our Infinite Universe... Infinite In So Many Ways [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1740410 - 07/23/03 05:44 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Nothing has meaning unless meaning is attached to it.
Take a personal diary for example. I could obtain it, and it could be worthless to me, but to the person who wrote the diary, it probably means a lot on the emotional and materialistic level.

With that said, of course life has no meaning if you want it to have no meaning. "Meaning" itself human concept. Observe all organisms on this world; at the end we are the same as an amoeba. We grow, we eat, we reproduce, and we die. The things we do from the womb to the tomb will give us meaning. Do you want to leave a mark in time? Or do you just want to passby this world unnoticed. It is all up to you. Free will, it's a bitch.


--------------------
Fold for The Shroomery!


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Our Infinite Universe... Infinite In So Many Ways [Re: daba]
    #1740425 - 07/23/03 06:08 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

This is what I am saying... I choose my meaning, since I recogize that there is no meaning....
And thank Satan, by the way, for having Free Will. God wanted us, as the Christian myth goes, to live in blind Perfection forever... (reminds of that quote.... oh, how does it go? Ignorance....?)
Enter, if you feel the need to finish that statement for me, I will be MUCH obliged. Thanks.
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Our Infinite Universe... Infinite In So Many Ways [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1740579 - 07/23/03 10:45 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I think the book you're talking about is The Elegant Universe, by Brian Greene. Definately an awesome book!

I particularely liked the last couple chapters, where he begins to discuss possibilities for what is spacetime itself...really? What is a vacuume? Space still exists in a vacuume...so what is space itself?

Oh and the train ride is a perfect example of relativity at work. Einstein was one smart guy  :smirk:


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: Our Infinite Universe... Infinite In So Many Ways [Re: trendal]
    #1740784 - 07/23/03 12:17 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

"And thank Satan, by the way, for having Free Will. God wanted us, as the Christian myth goes, to live in blind Perfection forever... "

Allow me to adress illogical christian dogma that many nonchristians cling to nonetheless.

OK, God is omnipotent and omniscient right? That means he knows all, sees all, is all. right?

but wait! in a ddition to god, there is also satan, a force that is separate from, and indeed rebelling against god?

as you can see, holding these two beliefs at once makes no sense. you can't rebel against omniscience. lucifer is god's servant. he wanted him to create free will.

I know it sounds contradictory, but free will is part of gods plan.

confusing isnt it


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Our Infinite Universe... Infinite In So Many Ways [Re: DoctorJ]
    #1741322 - 07/23/03 03:36 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:


I think the book you're talking about is The Elegant Universe, by Brian Greene. Definately an awesome book!



Yep, the Elegant Universe. I never got a chance to get too far into it (he was still reading it himself, I couldn't borrow it, so I read it while I had the chance). I love the train example, and the two spacemen who float by eachother and wave... and that was all in the part where they were explaining the background information necessary for considering the new theory (I didn't even really get into that, save for the main idea of the theory itself). I need to find that book again...

Quote:


OK, God is omnipotent and omniscient right? That means he knows all, sees all, is all. right?
but wait! in a ddition to god, there is also satan, a force that is separate from, and indeed rebelling against god?
as you can see, holding these two beliefs at once makes no sense. you can't rebel against omniscience. lucifer is god's servant. he wanted him to create free will.



There are more than one idea at work here, I'll describe the other one.
The belief that I was reading was that there was the Creator, and all the Co-Creators, all set in charge of their governing area (can't remember the actual term for what the area is...) got to set the rules in control of the experience offered in their area. At first, we never had free will, we only experienced Good, the possibility for Evil never existed. This was the time we were in the "Garden of Evil". However, we were basically ignorant, all the lessons of the Universe were already known to us, and we took them for granted or something (shaky memories in this area of the story, sorry. i'll search for the original message posted on here when I'm done typing). We weren't making any progress in spiritual evoultion, since we had no drive to. So, the Logos (Satan, believably... ever hear the song Black Sabbath's NIB? "the earth, the moon, the stars all bear my Seal" that song isn't about God....) gave us the CHOICE of good or evil. Of positivity or negatively. It made us no longer ignorant, seperating us from "Paradise". They also can exist without the other, when we make our shift to 4th density, we will have to choose one or another, although eventually, we will have to shift to positive orientation...
I think, possibly, this might tie in with the ancient civilization that covered the Earth (which is why all civilizations have related stories.. like the Flood).
The story of the Garden of Eden, the apple, Adam and Eve, it is all just a metaphor, like a lot of the Bible, and the story itself has probably been here since it happened. Later on, followers of their "God" interpreted the story as being about their God, and considered Lucifer as evil and falling from heaven... all he did was give us the choice. Any identity of who Lucifer is has since been polluted by the Jews assumption from the beginning. All he did was give us the choice, and when we are ready to ascend, he will take us to the next level, as he is the Logos. (by the way, this isn't Satanism. it is nothing related)
I'm now going to search for the story, just a second...
Ahh, here it is (read the posts by Adamist) click here
I think this is all very interesting, and quite the viewpoint..
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: Our Infinite Universe... Infinite In So Many Ways [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1741365 - 07/23/03 03:45 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

all I am saying is that free will has strengthened god and his creation, but he couldn't have done it without creating a being (lucifer) that was intended to rebel against him. 

underlying the percieved split from good and evil is god.  he is the source of both.  by creating evil god made himself and his creation stronger by taking it to places it hadn't been and expressing itself in new ways.

in my opinion, anyway.  one of the benefits offree will is that we all get to have our own :smile:


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Our Infinite Universe... Infinite In So Many Ways [Re: DoctorJ]
    #1741421 - 07/23/03 03:55 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I think you are still thinking from a view impressed by some Christian beliefs. This goes before and beyond that... the beliefs expressed in the Bible have been certain mens' take on things, and they all stem from a couple of assumptions made from the beginning. It isn't really about God in the way The Bible has portrayed him, it is about the Creator and his Creation...And the Creator is the source of both, since it is all his Creation and he created it.
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: Our Infinite Universe... Infinite In So Many Ways [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1741455 - 07/23/03 04:01 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

actually, most of the christians i know actually believe that there is some sort of evil being diametrically opposed to god thats trying to steal their souls and make them do evil things that will make god cry. to espouse the notion that god and lucifer are essentially two different parts of the same force that we see as separate because diminished awareness would be blasphemy to them.

but you and i seem to have similar outlooks.


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Our Infinite Universe... Infinite In So Many Ways [Re: DoctorJ]
    #1741491 - 07/23/03 04:07 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Have you gotten a chance to look at that link, man?
It does a LOT more justice to the story (since I had read this post whenever it was originally posted, and was recalling the story from then)
Check out the lyrics to Black Sabbath's N.I.B., too. Stunning, to say the least, when read with that post in mind.
Oh, by the way, the best way to examine an institution's ideas and beliefs is to consider them from a perspective outside the institution itself....
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlineseemslikeasymbol
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Re: Our Infinite Universe... Infinite In So Many Ways [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1741826 - 07/23/03 06:42 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

:smile: 


--------------------
i didnt mean that...


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OfflineDrubuShrume
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Re: Our Infinite Universe... Infinite In So Many Ways [Re: seemslikeasymbol]
    #1743577 - 07/24/03 03:20 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

On the train, they both signed the treaty at the exact same time, however, outside, one had signed it slightly before (I'm guessing the one sitting closer to the front of the train).

hmmm... I don't know if this is relativity at work. If both were across from each other (as I assume it would be, on their land respectively) then I think onlookers would see them signing at the same time as each other, just a seemingly later time than actual signing. (But mebbe I just have the wrong image in my head) I also haven't read the book...

I do know that Einstein did an experiment on a train with lightning (I believe) and a mirror a person on a train with a mirror. It was something like the lightning struck the pole, but the person traveling away from the lightning with the mirror saw it some milliseconds later than it occured.

Pretty cool stuff man :-)


--------------------
AH HA....


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OfflineRhizoid
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Re: Our Infinite Universe... Infinite In So Many Ways [Re: DrubuShrume]
    #1743707 - 07/24/03 04:24 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Yes, it's a version of Einstein's thought-experiment with a train and two lightning bolts:

Two lightning bolts strike the rear end and the front end of a train simultaneously, according to a person standing on the ground. If he stands right in the middle between the points where the lightning hit the tracks, the light flashes from both lightning bolts will reach him at the same time.

The same flashes of light will hit a person sitting in the middle of the train at different times. Since the train has moved forward a little during the time it takes for the light to propagate, the front flash will reach this person before the rear flash does.

But in the reference frame where the train is motionless and the ground is moving backwards, both of the light flashes travel the same distance before reaching the passenger. So she draws the conclusion that the front lightning bolt occurred earlier in time than the rear lightning bolt.

According to relativity, both of these reference frames are equally valid, and the speed of light is constant in both of them. So simultaneity at a distance is dependent on your frame of reference.


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Offlinewhole9
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Re: Our Infinite Universe... Infinite In So Many Ways [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1743737 - 07/24/03 05:05 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

relativity is just an expression of forces..


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OfflineRhizoid
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Re: Our Infinite Universe... Infinite In So Many Ways [Re: whole9]
    #1743786 - 07/24/03 07:02 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Or you could say that relativity is inherent in the way we perceive forces.


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