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Offlinemajik_monkey
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For peope who have worked with straw......
    #1739792 - 07/22/03 11:27 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I was reading a thread about straw logs and mycofile wrote his thoughts on how straight straw substrates perform well, especially when spawned well. It got me thinking....

Stamets talks of using straight straw and also suplementing at the time of spawning or at pre-casing with things like cottonmeal, etc...chapter 7 in tmC if I remember correctly. Has anyone tried this and what were their results?

More importantly, does anyone have a comparitive basis to evaluate their results with this method?


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Offlinem0rb
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Registered: 05/07/03
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Re: For peope who have worked with straw...... [Re: majik_monkey]
    #1740379 - 07/23/03 04:55 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I dont remember if it was Stamets that talks about the increased risk of contams using suplements, or if it was someone in this forum. Either way, my friend would most likely be happy with the huge initial (and probably final) flush of mushrooms...but experiementing is what we do here. :smile:  If Stamets could do it, so could you!

-m0rb-


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: For peope who have worked with straw...... [Re: m0rb]
    #1740541 - 07/23/03 08:52 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

just add more spawn instead,
it's nutritious and already colonized so contam risks are minimized.


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Invisiblemicro
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Re: For peope who have worked with straw...... [Re: Hippie3]
    #1742018 - 07/23/03 07:37 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Agreed. Supplementation can boost yields a lot, but always increases the risk of contamination by a significant factor.

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InvisibleATWAR
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Re: For peope who have worked with straw...... [Re: m0rb]
    #1743719 - 07/24/03 04:37 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

I dont remember if it was Stamets that talks about the increased risk of contams using suplements, or if it was someone in this forum.



It was most likely both, someone here probably mentioned before im sure.

He talks about when you supplement materials such as straw or woodchips that you make it easier for contamination, losing the selectivity of the substrate. When you add supplements you increase the food that the nasties can thrive on. He also states that supplemented substrates need extended sterilization times. It is possible for a supplemented substrate to not work when pasteurized with certain additives.


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Offlineshakta
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Re: For peope who have worked with straw...... [Re: ATWAR]
    #1745734 - 07/24/03 09:03 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Would poo be considered a supplement? My friend can't decide whether to do straw/poo or straight straw on his next experiment.


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InvisibleATWAR
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Re: For peope who have worked with straw...... [Re: shakta]
    #1746469 - 07/25/03 01:36 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Poo would be considered a substrate. Things like cottonseed meal and bran are supplements that can be added to increase the nitrogen and nutrient content.


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Offlineshakta
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Re: For peope who have worked with straw...... [Re: ATWAR]
    #1747400 - 07/25/03 09:57 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Why would cottonseed or bran be more likely to contaminate than poo? I am not trying to argue just curious. I guess you could say that straw would be a supplement to the poo, since most people use more poo than straw when mixing them together.


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Invisiblemicro
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Re: For peope who have worked with straw...... [Re: shakta]
    #1747555 - 07/25/03 11:14 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

It's a less selective substrate.

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InvisibleATWAR
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Re: For peope who have worked with straw...... [Re: shakta]
    #1748277 - 07/25/03 03:14 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

I guess you could say that straw would be a supplement to the poo, since most people use more poo than straw when mixing them together.




I think you are confusing the usage of the word. Supplements are protein and nitrogen rich substances (plus other nutrients) that are added to the substrate to boost its yield capabilities. Straw would not be considered a supplement either, it is a substrate. Think of them like vitamins. You eat regular food, but taking a vitamin supplement will help your body get more of the vitamins and minerals it needs (forget about the contamination vector with this analogy, we have defense mechanisms), therefore your body is better capable of maintaining good health.

And Micro is right, supplements such as wheat bran, rye grain, cottonseed, and brown rice all contaminate much easier than manure because of this additional nutritional content. They are "less" selective towards supporting mycelia growth, while limiting the growth of contaminants. When you use these, you lose this selectivity.


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Offlinemonkeymagic
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Re: For peope who have worked with straw...... [Re: ATWAR]
    #1748477 - 07/25/03 04:10 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

hey you took my name


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InvisibleATWAR
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Re: For peope who have worked with straw...... [Re: monkeymagic]
    #1748509 - 07/25/03 04:20 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I took your name?

I didnt take anything from anyone...


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Offlineshakta
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Re: For peope who have worked with straw...... [Re: ATWAR]
    #1748585 - 07/25/03 04:46 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I gotcha now. Thanks for the explanation.


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Offlinemajik_monkey
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Re: For peope who have worked with straw...... [Re: shakta]
    #1748903 - 07/25/03 06:40 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

...sorry about the name theft...I didnt know before...

About supplementing with high spawn ratos...does anyone have knowledge of what spawns are good for supplementing the substrate, not just for innoculating it...my foaf has always used Wbs, and only for spawning not specifically for supplementing...


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Invisiblemycofile
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Re: For peope who have worked with straw...... [Re: majik_monkey]
    #1748973 - 07/25/03 07:09 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

All subs are good for supplementing with. The key is that you use more colonized spawn as the method of supplementation. Things like bran and cottonseed meal aren't colonized, therefore they risk contamination. All spawns are high in nutrients, be they whole grain or even BRFV cakes. Just use a lot of them.

Stamets says just after discussing the supplementation methods available that he prefers to use colonized spawn for these very reasons.

Professional grower's also only need to supplement because of their low spawn rates. As little as a quart per 8 sq. feet! Many of us use a quart per 1 square foot, even more! That's heavily supplemented for sure!


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Offlinemonkeymagic
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Re: For peope who have worked with straw...... [Re: mycofile]
    #1750120 - 07/26/03 04:33 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

hey, no problems majik monkey


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Amazon Shop for: Brown Rice Flour, Paul Stamets, Rye Grain, Wild Bird Seed

Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Advanced Mycology

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