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 All We Perceive
Sea Cucumber
Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 10,491
Last seen: 9 months, 20 days
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 Re: why use "proper grammar" in unnecessary instances?  [Re: morrowasted]
#17388806 - 12/13/12 10:14 PM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
morrowasted said:
assuming the purpose of communication is for a particular message to remain as intact as possible between sender and receiver, why should I care about things like capitalization or correct but superfluous punctuation? do you have a hard time understanding my message when I fail to capitalize the first letter?
It's not about maintaining the "old guard's" tyrannical grammar mandates; it's about making your writing easily readable for other people. Big letters at the beginning of a sentence allow your eye to easily know where to pause very briefly so your brain can process each sentence. It just sucks with all the letters small because you don't know when the idea is going to end. I think it's the same with any grammatical device.
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"plus they atually think jambands are good or sumthing, so they clearly know absolutely nothing about music, clearly lol" -Bassfreak
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morrowasted
Worldwide Stepper
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Re: why use "proper grammar" in unnecessary instances? [Re: All We Perceive]
#17388819 - 12/13/12 10:17 PM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
All We Perceive said:
Quote:
morrowasted said:
assuming the purpose of communication is for a particular message to remain as intact as possible between sender and receiver, why should I care about things like capitalization or correct but superfluous punctuation? do you have a hard time understanding my message when I fail to capitalize the first letter?
It's not about maintaining the "old guard's" tyrannical grammar mandates; it's about making your writing easily readable for other people. Big letters at the beginning of a sentence allow your eye to easily know where to pause very briefly so your brain can process each sentence. It just sucks with all the letters small because you don't know when the idea is going to end. I think it's the same with any grammatical device.
But the ease with which a person understands your grammar is not a function of a priori grammatical standards but rather consistency of representation between communicants. Prescriptive linguistics seeks to "get everyone on the same page" by mandating a certain way to properly communicate; descriptive lingustics attempts to understand how it is that individuals communicate despite not being on the same page linguistically.
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berdinwall
<3 whooooshhh
Registered: 06/10/12
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Re: why use "proper grammar" in unnecessary instances? [Re: morrowasted]
#17388873 - 12/13/12 10:25 PM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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dude, I can't understand ANY of your first fucking post...learn how to speak fucking english....fuck
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morrowasted
Worldwide Stepper
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Re: why use "proper grammar" in unnecessary instances? [Re: morrowasted]
#17388891 - 12/13/12 10:29 PM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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I just can't help but wonder if language will continually evolve or if it is moving in the direction of maximal communicative efficacy via rearrangement of correspondence between symbols & phonemes and syntax. The standardization of education seems to allow for greater flexibility when it comes to the correspondence between morphemes and pronunciation; for example in english "ough" can be pronounced at least 6 different ways, but since we have the benefit of an early education, we can memorize all six correspondences rather than being forced to use a language that is more methodical in it correlations between morphemes and their pronunciations.
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JesusIsLord
Jesus freak
Registered: 08/10/12
Posts: 8,061
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Re: why use "proper grammar" in unnecessary instances? [Re: morrowasted]
#17388911 - 12/13/12 10:32 PM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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you have no substance without style, no style without substance
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And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.
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morrowasted
Worldwide Stepper
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Re: why use "proper grammar" in unnecessary instances? [Re: JesusIsLord]
#17388918 - 12/13/12 10:33 PM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
JesusIsLord said:
you have no substance without style, no style without substance
more like people cannot see the substance contained within your utterance unless it is represented according to the style with which they are familiar.
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 Sheekle
FREE BURKE
Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 53,153
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Re: why use "proper grammar" in unnecessary instances? [Re: morrowasted]
#17389022 - 12/13/12 10:54 PM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
morrowasted said:
assuming the purpose of communication is for a particular message to remain as intact as possible between sender and receiver, why should I care about things like capitalization or correct but superfluous punctuation? do you have a hard time understanding my message when I fail to capitalize the first letter?
yea i think it's stupid to go out of your way to do it but some people just get used to it and do it all the time
when people say to get better at writing or w/e when you're just talking about simple things i think it's pretty retarded tho
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"Ur cat died because he hated u" - Koods
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All We Perceive
Sea Cucumber
Registered: 09/24/07
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Re: why use "proper grammar" in unnecessary instances? [Re: morrowasted]
#17389038 - 12/13/12 10:57 PM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
morrowasted said:
Quote:
All We Perceive said:
Quote:
morrowasted said:
assuming the purpose of communication is for a particular message to remain as intact as possible between sender and receiver, why should I care about things like capitalization or correct but superfluous punctuation? do you have a hard time understanding my message when I fail to capitalize the first letter?
It's not about maintaining the "old guard's" tyrannical grammar mandates; it's about making your writing easily readable for other people. Big letters at the beginning of a sentence allow your eye to easily know where to pause very briefly so your brain can process each sentence. It just sucks with all the letters small because you don't know when the idea is going to end. I think it's the same with any grammatical device.
But the ease with which a person understands your grammar is not a function of a priori grammatical standards but rather consistency of representation between communicants. Prescriptive linguistics seeks to "get everyone on the same page" by mandating a certain way to properly communicate; descriptive lingustics attempts to understand how it is that individuals communicate despite not being on the same page linguistically.
Who said grammar was a function of a priori grammatical standards? It obviously is just commonly agreed upon rules which make people easier to understand. Right. So by using shit grammar, you are making yourself harder to understand.
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"plus they atually think jambands are good or sumthing, so they clearly know absolutely nothing about music, clearly lol" -Bassfreak
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CidneyIndole
www.shroomery.OG
Registered: 05/16/05
Posts: 4,762
Loc: Love's Secret Domain
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Re: why use "proper grammar" in unnecessary instances? [Re: starfire_xes]
#17389362 - 12/14/12 12:33 AM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
starfire_xes said:
You should use the grammar and speech the situation calls for. However, in writing, proper grammar and punctuation should be used (In English) because it makes the material much easier to read. The level of formality should change depending on the material and audience.
In spoken English, you should use what is called for by the audience and situation. No one understands this better than speakers like Obama.
You can use crude, vulgar, informal language in the right situations, but you have to know the situation. Listen to a foreigner try to use vulgar language in English. It often sounds bad because they don't really understand the situational context in which it should be used.
I agree that these are, generally speaking, the guidelines for good communication.
I almost said "rules" but that is a bit formal, and I didn't want morrowasted to have to wax linguistic about the rigidity of rule-based communication.
Just busting balls. (with that last part, at least)
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I am me. We are You.
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YSHServant
I Wanna Shoot Something
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Re: why use "proper grammar" in unnecessary instances? [Re: CidneyIndole] 1
#17390095 - 12/14/12 06:54 AM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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I just see a bunch of poor souls trying really hard to be impressive in a grammar thread.
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Senor_Doobie
Snake Pit Champion
Registered: 08/11/99
Posts: 22,678
Loc: Trump Train
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Re: why use "proper grammar" in unnecessary instances? [Re: morrowasted]
#17390102 - 12/14/12 06:58 AM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
morrowasted said:
assuming the purpose of communication is for a particular message to remain as intact as possible between sender and receiver, why should I care about things like capitalization or correct but superfluous punctuation? do you have a hard time understanding my message when I fail to capitalize the first letter?
All the rules of grammar exist in order to make written communication as well-understood as possible.
It shows respect not only for whatever message you are trying to convey but for the audience of that message. The fact is that using improper grammar makes the message harder to read. I am curious as to what you would consider superfluous punctuation.
Now, I will admit that when I am in a chat room or texting that grammar takes a back seat to speed. But when I am in an edit box like this one, I'm going to take the time to ensure that whatever point I am making is as understandable as possible.
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"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat
“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.” -- Thomas Jefferson
The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.
The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)
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ArmFromTheAbyss
Old Hand
Registered: 10/09/02
Posts: 1,368
Loc: Down here in Babylon
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Re: why use "proper grammar" in unnecessary instances? [Re: morrowasted]
#17390413 - 12/14/12 08:40 AM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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 You stole my thread noob! http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17378575 
Ich bein ein Grammar Nazi 
Call me old fashioned, but if you learned how to read before the internet was invented it's much easier to follow a properly written post.
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larry.fisherman
shoulda died already
Registered: 11/03/12
Posts: 36,311
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Re: why use "proper grammar" in unnecessary instances? [Re: ArmFromTheAbyss]
#17390472 - 12/14/12 08:59 AM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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Not using proper grammar impresses no one. Not that you should care if you impress everyone but it makes you look like an idiot to not be able to spell properly. Grammar isn't as big of a deal as spelling in my opinion, but it helps convey your point properly. And no one wants to read a giant run on sentence. They're hard to understand properly, like a giant wall of text.
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psi
TOAST N' JAM
Registered: 09/05/99
Posts: 31,569
Loc: 613 
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Re: why use "proper grammar" in unnecessary instances? [Re: YSHServant]
#17390571 - 12/14/12 09:20 AM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
TheMadHatter777 said:
I just see a bunch of poor souls trying really hard to be impressive in a grammar thread.
Yeah, it does seem like some people are going a little overboard to show off.
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Positive
theArchitect
Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 138
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
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Re: why use "proper grammar" in unnecessary instances? [Re: morrowasted]
#17390643 - 12/14/12 09:34 AM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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So that in 3,000 years after language has evolved, some schmuk doesn't translate it approximately and sell his philosophy along with it.
Who can read Sumerian?
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Shroomacabra
Slow Motion Time Traveler
Registered: 04/11/12
Posts: 804
Last seen: 4 years, 11 months
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Re: why use "proper grammar" in unnecessary instances? [Re: Positive]
#17390965 - 12/14/12 10:42 AM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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It is a slippery slope. If you let one thing slide, eventually you will start letting other things slide. Language is an ever evolving thing. New words come into popular use as old words become outdated and archaic. Kinda glad about that since I would not enjoy using the Thee's and Thou's of days of yore. But one thing that has always remained mostly constant is the punctuation, capitalization and sentence structure. Have a capital letter at the beginning of a sentence makes it stand out more than just a simple period. Commas are important for properly separating parts of sentences so the correct meaning is understood. Paragraphs are used to separate the flow of the context you are attempting to relay across to your audience.
There are many reason for it and I am sure an English major or professor at some university could explain it better than I. Either way, if you want to be accepted into a civilized society, certain status quos should try to be maintained. Speech and written language should be one of them. I work in an IT department in a mostly Sales oriented company. I cringe at some of the emails I see being sent out to customers. I have actually seen someone type "I need to axe you a question." instead of "I need to ask you a question".
There is a need and you should just do it. Enough people out there have stopped caring. We do not need one more.
Lastly, it is something you should practice all the time, that is why you should even practice it in unnecessary instances. Especially with all the texting shorthand people use now a days. If you do not practice it all the time, you may forget how to when it IS a necessary instance.
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