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Pelidc
Uberlord
Registered: 01/24/13
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: Christ is the Logos. The logos is equivalent to the earlier Neoplatonic designation of Nous, or the Divine Mind and repository of Plato's Eternal Ideas. Christianity expressed this as, "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made." - John 1:3. Now, in John's theology, this famous 'Prologue' (Pro Logos) begins: "In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God." - John 1:1. As Christian theology developed, the word "Word" was capitalized to suggest a second hypostasis. By the third century, a third hypostasis arose - the Holy Spirit. In Neoplatonism, this concept parallels the Anima Mundi or World Soul. But Christ is the Logos, which is usually translated as 'Word.' The Hellenistic Jewish philosopher, Philo of Alexandria, whose works exist today, and who lived contemporaneously with Jesus of Nazareth, wrote extensively on the Logos. The author John, borrowed Philo's works to write his 'Prologue.' It is odd that Philo never heard of a man (Jesus) who was supposed to be the very Incarnation of the Logos in Philo's own lifetime, who lived in Alexandria, Egypt - not far from the alleged place of the gospel stories.
BTW, earlier than the Greek notions of the Logos, was the Egyptian personification of 'the word of God,' or perhaps more accurately, 'the tongue of God.' That personification was Tehuti, the Ibis-Headed One, whom the Greeks called Thoth. Tehuti-Thoth was the Egyptian precursor to Hermes, 'Messenger of God [or the gods],' and this character became the Roman god Mercury. The tongue or word or mind of God is an extension, or prolation of the Godhead (inasmuch as our own tongues are part of our heads), but not the totality of God. Thus, in Christianity, the Father is the Unmanifest Godhead, in Neoplatonism, the Unmanifest is called "The ONE." In Egypt, the Supreme God was known as Ra or Re for the most part, and like Aten, was symbolized by the Sun. The crescent-billed Thoth was a lunar deity that complemented the solar Ra (or sometimes, Amen-Ra, and possibly the name whence we get the word 'Amen' at the end of prayers).
In Indian mythology, like the one about the churning of the Milky Sea by a giant serpent, wrapped around the Sacred Mountain, to produce the Nectar (amrita) of Immortality, those on the esoteric 'in,' understand that this is a mythic illustration of the symbolic serpent Kundalini, wrapped 3 1/2 times around the phallus symbol at the base of the spine in the Muladhara chakra. Why is it that there are very very few Christians who are aware of the inner meanings of their mythology? All too many Christians are ignorant rubes who take these stories of personified cosmic energies to be historical stories. .
The Holy Spirit didn't come in the third century, He was predicted by Jesus Himself and then came around shortly after the Ascension in the Book of Acts.
But bringing that point up highlights a potential impasse, since you are a gnostic. How do you feel about the clearly anti-gnostic Pauline epistles? Do you accept or deny Paul's guidance away from gnostic interpretations of the Gospels?
To everyone else, was the initial question(s) asking about the cultural role of "a christ" or the identity and importance of Jesus Himself? Since Jesus made such extraordinary claims about Himself, the two should not be confused.
-------------------- "But I don't want comfort. I want God, I want poetry, I want real danger, I want freedom, I want goodness. I want sin." "In fact," said Mustapha Mond, "you're claiming the right to be unhappy." "All right then," said the Savage defiantly, "I'm claiming the right to be unhappy."
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g00ru
lit pants tit licker
Registered: 08/09/07
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Re: What is Christ? [Re: Pelidc]
#17630908 - 01/29/13 06:36 PM (11 years, 1 month ago) |
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The Christ is basically kundalini or cosmic consciousness. Jesus was 'The Christ' of western civilization
-------------------- check out my music! drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/09/99
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Re: What is Christ? [Re: Pelidc]
#17630943 - 01/29/13 06:42 PM (11 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Pelidc said:
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: Christ is the Logos. The logos is equivalent to the earlier Neoplatonic designation of Nous, or the Divine Mind and repository of Plato's Eternal Ideas. Christianity expressed this as, "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made." - John 1:3. Now, in John's theology, this famous 'Prologue' (Pro Logos) begins: "In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God." - John 1:1. As Christian theology developed, the word "Word" was capitalized to suggest a second hypostasis. By the third century, a third hypostasis arose - the Holy Spirit. In Neoplatonism, this concept parallels the Anima Mundi or World Soul. But Christ is the Logos, which is usually translated as 'Word.' The Hellenistic Jewish philosopher, Philo of Alexandria, whose works exist today, and who lived contemporaneously with Jesus of Nazareth, wrote extensively on the Logos. The author John, borrowed Philo's works to write his 'Prologue.' It is odd that Philo never heard of a man (Jesus) who was supposed to be the very Incarnation of the Logos in Philo's own lifetime, who lived in Alexandria, Egypt - not far from the alleged place of the gospel stories.
BTW, earlier than the Greek notions of the Logos, was the Egyptian personification of 'the word of God,' or perhaps more accurately, 'the tongue of God.' That personification was Tehuti, the Ibis-Headed One, whom the Greeks called Thoth. Tehuti-Thoth was the Egyptian precursor to Hermes, 'Messenger of God [or the gods],' and this character became the Roman god Mercury. The tongue or word or mind of God is an extension, or prolation of the Godhead (inasmuch as our own tongues are part of our heads), but not the totality of God. Thus, in Christianity, the Father is the Unmanifest Godhead, in Neoplatonism, the Unmanifest is called "The ONE." In Egypt, the Supreme God was known as Ra or Re for the most part, and like Aten, was symbolized by the Sun. The crescent-billed Thoth was a lunar deity that complemented the solar Ra (or sometimes, Amen-Ra, and possibly the name whence we get the word 'Amen' at the end of prayers).
In Indian mythology, like the one about the churning of the Milky Sea by a giant serpent, wrapped around the Sacred Mountain, to produce the Nectar (amrita) of Immortality, those on the esoteric 'in,' understand that this is a mythic illustration of the symbolic serpent Kundalini, wrapped 3 1/2 times around the phallus symbol at the base of the spine in the Muladhara chakra. Why is it that there are very very few Christians who are aware of the inner meanings of their mythology? All too many Christians are ignorant rubes who take these stories of personified cosmic energies to be historical stories. .
The Holy Spirit didn't come in the third century, He was predicted by Jesus Himself and then came around shortly after the Ascension in the Book of Acts.
But bringing that point up highlights a potential impasse, since you are a gnostic. How do you feel about the clearly anti-gnostic Pauline epistles? Do you accept or deny Paul's guidance away from gnostic interpretations of the Gospels?
To everyone else, was the initial question(s) asking about the cultural role of "a christ" or the identity and importance of Jesus Himself? Since Jesus made such extraordinary claims about Himself, the two should not be confused.
Ill simply defer to a kindred soul, more apt at answering your question than I am:
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Mr.Al
Alphabet soup
Registered: 05/27/07
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Loc: N.S.A. D.C.
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Saved All Sentient Beings (Past,Present, and Future on All TimeLines) through transmutation of Original Sin Karma.
Speakest ye of doctrine and know that the hands of Priests are soft not strong.
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Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!
Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
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Re: What is Christ? [Re: Mr.Al]
#17631238 - 01/29/13 07:29 PM (11 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Mr.Al said: Saved All Sentient Beings (Past,Present, and Future on All TimeLines) through transmutation of Original Sin Karma.
Speakest ye of doctrine and know that the hands of Priests are soft not strong.
Are you saying he was a time traveler?
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
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Buster_Brown
L'une
Registered: 09/17/11
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Possibly of more interest than the surmise of Christ is the conjecture of heaven.
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Pelidc
Uberlord
Registered: 01/24/13
Posts: 175
Loc: United States
Last seen: 2 years, 9 months
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Haven't read it, I'll have to add it to my list. However the description of it leaves out 2 Thessalonians, which contains quite a few arguments against gnosticism in the churches. Does the book address this?
-------------------- "But I don't want comfort. I want God, I want poetry, I want real danger, I want freedom, I want goodness. I want sin." "In fact," said Mustapha Mond, "you're claiming the right to be unhappy." "All right then," said the Savage defiantly, "I'm claiming the right to be unhappy."
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Joshuasca
Registered: 10/31/12
Posts: 391
Last seen: 6 years, 6 months
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Re: What is Christ? [Re: Pelidc]
#17634113 - 01/30/13 09:43 AM (11 years, 1 month ago) |
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I didn't have time to read this whole thread, but the one problem I have with Christianity is, why would a God be so selfish to condemn you to an eternity of suffering just because you don't acknowledge his greatness? Ya know? God (according to Christianity) is supposed to be "all-loving" and "all-merciful." Except when you question his greatness. Then he submits you to the most horrible punishments imaginable, for eternity. I just don't get that. When i was a christian, I've had a preacher tell me Hell is not a real place, and that would make Christianity's case a little better in my books. Anyway, it seems like Christians view their god to have an ego bigger than the entire cast of jersey shore, times infinity, lolz.
--------------------
Edited by Joshuasca (01/30/13 09:43 AM)
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Mr.Al
Alphabet soup
Registered: 05/27/07
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It is perceptive to not how absurd it is for folks to worship a Being that has no Ego.
How does a Being with no Ego interpret such behavior.
"Hypothetically Speaking".
Perhaps it sometimes is in the category of lottery ticket lobbying.
Are they looking for special treatment Indeed?
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g00ru
lit pants tit licker
Registered: 08/09/07
Posts: 21,088
Loc: georgia, us
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
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Re: What is Christ? [Re: Mr.Al]
#17634263 - 01/30/13 10:17 AM (11 years, 1 month ago) |
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nobody's lobbying for anything, well except for the politician in your signature
-------------------- check out my music! drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss
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Mr.Al
Alphabet soup
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Loc: N.S.A. D.C.
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Re: What is Christ? [Re: g00ru]
#17634307 - 01/30/13 10:26 AM (11 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
ghooru said: nobody's lobbying for anything, well except for the politician in your signature
You might not be lobbying.
If a church-goer is acting especially pious for a few months and then
just happens to pick up a lottery ticket with their cup of coffee for their evening shift of work.
Are they merely playing the ridiculously improbable odds of winning, which they well know are much less likely than being struck by lightening,
or were they lobbying for a winning lottery ticket.
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g00ru
lit pants tit licker
Registered: 08/09/07
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Re: What is Christ? [Re: Mr.Al]
#17634326 - 01/30/13 10:29 AM (11 years, 1 month ago) |
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well that is quite a scenario you have devised, I think they would probably be in order to thank Jesus for their good fortune at that point.
-------------------- check out my music! drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss
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Mr.Al
Alphabet soup
Registered: 05/27/07
Posts: 5,388
Loc: N.S.A. D.C.
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Re: What is Christ? [Re: g00ru]
#17634468 - 01/30/13 11:11 AM (11 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
ghooru said: well that is quite a scenario you have devised, I think they would probably be in order to thank Jesus for their good fortune at that point.
There is no such thing as a free lunch.
When someone wins money observe how much Virtue they lose.
See how they treat their friends. Some of them let their Character drop and they become shallow.
Whereas if they ran a business or did something else to earn their fortune their Character may actually improve, they lose no Virtue, and maybe they can employ their friends (although sometimes that is not at all a good idea, working with friends, it is better to help a friend work than give him a handout though, it is about respecting them in terms of what they can accomplish.)
It is disconcerting when some folk see themselves as somehow "better" because they go to church.
Some people walk out of a church service holding themselves to Higher Moral Standards, even Enlightened Standards.
Some other folks leave church with a sense of entitlement to be nasty to whoever did not go, they thought they were "better" because they went to church and their character dropped...
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g00ru
lit pants tit licker
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Posts: 21,088
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Re: What is Christ? [Re: Mr.Al]
#17634501 - 01/30/13 11:18 AM (11 years, 1 month ago) |
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have a sandwhich
-------------------- check out my music! drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss
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zzripz
Stranger
Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 8,292
Loc: Manchester, UK
Last seen: 4 years, 9 months
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Quote:
Joshuasca said: I didn't have time to read this whole thread, but the one problem I have with Christianity is, why would a God be so selfish to condemn you to an eternity of suffering just because you don't acknowledge his greatness? Ya know? God (according to Christianity) is supposed to be "all-loving" and "all-merciful." Except when you question his greatness. Then he submits you to the most horrible punishments imaginable, for eternity. I just don't get that. When i was a christian, I've had a preacher tell me Hell is not a real place, and that would make Christianity's case a little better in my books. Anyway, it seems like Christians view their god to have an ego bigger than the entire cast of jersey shore, times infinity, lolz.
LOL. that is very true. It is obvious that their 'God' is just a projection of the typical tyrannical male ego which is put up there in the clouds and is capricious and irrational--on one hand claiming to be all pure goodness and love, and with the next shoving those who don't believe in 'HIM' into hell for everlasting torture. When you show up this contradiction to his believers they claim that is is YOUR fault 'HE' punishes you. Convenient ey!
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Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!
Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
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Re: What is Christ? [Re: g00ru]
#17635953 - 01/30/13 03:59 PM (11 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
ghooru said: have a sandwhich
COMMIE!
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
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g00ru
lit pants tit licker
Registered: 08/09/07
Posts: 21,088
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Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
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only during the school week!
-------------------- check out my music! drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss
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Mr.Al
Alphabet soup
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Re: What is Christ? [Re: zzripz]
#17639962 - 01/30/13 07:54 PM (11 years, 1 month ago) |
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God has always been a man o.k.
He doesn't have an Eggo Wafflez o.k.
His feet were bleeding wasn't wearing shoez.
Why don't you go take Shoe Inventory.
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g00ru
lit pants tit licker
Registered: 08/09/07
Posts: 21,088
Loc: georgia, us
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
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Re: What is Christ? [Re: Mr.Al]
#17640166 - 01/30/13 08:22 PM (11 years, 1 month ago) |
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umm, why are you comparing God to those things
-------------------- check out my music! drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss
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Mr.Al
Alphabet soup
Registered: 05/27/07
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Loc: N.S.A. D.C.
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Re: What is Christ? [Re: g00ru]
#17642384 - 01/31/13 09:15 AM (11 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
ghooru said: umm, why are you comparing God to those things
Work Ethic = Three Realms.
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