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Humility
Working on it



Registered: 10/07/08
Posts: 6,745
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Re: School district performs drug tests at parents' request [Re: qman]
#17281486 - 11/25/12 08:25 PM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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I don't think restricting people's freedom to engage consensually with themselves and other people is ever the "way to go". Especially when that restriction involves using force to keep people from engaging in behavior that they want to engage in when they aren't initiating violence against anyone else.
I don't think any 15 16 17 or 18 year olds will benefit from your illegalization of drugs for people of those ages.. I know I wouldn't have. "Illegalization" of substances is another way to say "If you do what I tell you not to, I'm going to hurt you." I challenge you to refute this statement.
Quote:
Thanks I was in the upper 1% in grade school and college.
I never denied that Americans are becoming 'infantilized', its an observation I made a long time ago. That doesn't necessarily correlate with our educational system going downhill, which was my clearly stated point (reading comprehension).
My initial statements are pretty clearly not directed at "our educational system" but rather "American and UK society".
Society being everyone, or rather the "average" individual/the majority of individuals.
I may have come off as crass but I was pretty clear in my post about "infantilization" affecting the whole of society and not one segment. It's annoying to have people misinterpret what you type, type something completely non-relevant to your original thoughts and then run with that. It requires the sort of rollback that I'm doing right this second, which takes time and energy from me, so yah I was a little unnecessarily crass in stating that your reading comprehension was poor.
Perhaps it was simply an error.
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Repertoire89
Cat



Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 21,773
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Re: School district performs drug tests at parents' request [Re: Humility]
#17281652 - 11/25/12 08:56 PM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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The infantilization of the United States and of American and UK(though not Continental European) society is a VERY disturbing trend. High school aged individuals are treated like children and college aged individuals like middle school kids. Most colleges give classes on dumb shit like how to do laundry.
This is what I was referring to concerning educational system, the ultimate point definitely isn't confined to education so I'll drop it.
From my own experience alcohol was a lot harder to find than illegal drugs, there was no black market for it so I had to find an adult willing to buy some for me. I'm not alone in that experience. As far as freedom and non-violence, it's true that prohibition for that segment of society isn't a perfect concept. The only alternative I can think of is more education, but that doesn't seem to work very well lol
My own concept of this doesn't really make sense as I don't believe in jailing kids for using drugs, and imposing coersion on adults who provide drugs would be very easy to get around. I'm sure there's a better alternative than age based prohibition, but I haven't heard one on this thread or thought of one myself. In either case I'd rather have a complete end to prohibition than current laws, the age based prohibition might be flawed but it's a big improvement.
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Maharishi_2_U
Opt Out Super Fag


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 6,316
Loc: The Streets
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Re: School district performs drug tests at parents' request [Re: qman]
#17281660 - 11/25/12 08:58 PM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Maharishi_2_U said: I wish I bad not began using drugs at an early age. I think it has caused me social, mental, and legal troubles. I have a feeling that it is mostly people who are to proud to admit drug use can have negative effects, as can many things. Also I am guessing that most who disagree with drug testing youngsters are not parents. If you really think that just because kids are drug tested at school age they will become some sort of slave to the machine, that is absolute garbage. I am sure most parents tell children not to do certain things, fight, steal, have sex, join gangs etc; yet magically they still do! The human mind, as I would suspect most self proclaimed "psychonauts" should understand is a powerful thing. We will always have conformists and nonconformists as a result of genetics, nurture, and nature. No, I do not think children should use mind altering substances, including licit or illicit. The mind is still forming and fragile, Fact. It's amazing to me how many of you can say you'd want your 15 year old child tripping balls. Even in aboriginal society where hallucinogens are a sacrament only adults take part, and it is usually a right of passage for a young man to take part in such experiences. Just makes sense to me, maybe I am getting old and not "cool" anymore now that I have children and resposibilities?
No one said that they want a 15 year old child tripping balls, no one said that children should do drugs, the debate is about public schools drug testing children.
Preventing kids from using drugs
If your a parent, it's YOUR responsibility to deal with your child's drug education and prevention, not a public official.
"At parents request" I believe is what I read.
Drug testing at school opens a can of worms for students, do positive tests go on the child's permanent record, will they be discriminated in the future for a positive test?
Will law enforcement officials be notified for a positive test, will a positive test be a criminal offense? Will parents be charged?
Not mentioned in the debate, as YOU plainly and clearly stated what this debate is and is not. Which in and of itself is but a matter of perception. You might think I am a douche, my kids think I'm a hero, see where I'm going there?
If you had a negative result from drug use as a child, then that's your issue, don't destroy the freedom of others for your misfortunes and bad judgments.
Because I was underage, not fully mentally developed and that is exactly what this idea proposes to bring to an end. I'm destroying the freedom of whom? Children in my care? Please explain.
I think any person 21+ should be able to do what ever they want with/to their body, liberty. I also think that we, as a people should take steps towards raising healthy, well educated, respectful children who will someday be our leaders.
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LongStrangeTrip
Deadhead


Registered: 09/19/09
Posts: 5,382
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Re: School district performs drug tests at parents' request [Re: Maharishi_2_U]
#17282030 - 11/25/12 10:09 PM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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Guys...maybe kids should not be doing drugs, but what is wrong is that these kids face criminal penalties for what could either be a benign, or serious, drug problem.
As long as the "penalty" for testing positive is being kicked out of school, Juvenal hall, whatever having to do with law enforcement; your argument has already lost. That is not what we need.
Now, if they drug tested 16 year olds, found out a few were doing coke, and instead, talk to them individually about their habits...that would be good.
But we live in a fucking draconian crazy fucked up world
-------------------- Nothing I say or do is factual; every single thing I write is a work of fiction. Got no idea what I'm talking about here~ "Once in awhile, you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right"~ (Grateful Dead) "o puer, qui omnia nomini debes"; "You, boy, who owe's everything to a name"~ Mark Anthony "Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum."; "Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system."~ Cicero
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Repertoire89
Cat



Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 21,773
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Re: School district performs drug tests at parents' request [Re: LongStrangeTrip]
#17282092 - 11/25/12 10:22 PM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
LongStrangeTrip said: Now, if they drug tested 16 year olds, found out a few were doing coke, and instead, talk to them individually about their habits...that would be good.
Seems legit
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Maharishi_2_U
Opt Out Super Fag


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 6,316
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Re: School district performs drug tests at parents' request [Re: Repertoire89]
#17282745 - 11/26/12 02:01 AM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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I see NOWHERE indicating legal ramifications are mentioned. Even as adults, if a perspective employee fails a drug test for an employer, you're not going to catch a charge. Now if you're on probation or parole you're playing a different game.
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Lord_McLovin
mad scientist on shrooms


Registered: 04/09/11
Posts: 3,071
Loc: infinite dimensional void
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Re: School district performs drug tests at parents' request [Re: Maharishi_2_U]
#17282985 - 11/26/12 04:12 AM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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You know that they are gonna make their life shitty if they get cought, don't fool yourself. The way I see it, there are two options:
1) The kid has consumed a drug that is detectable even long after use, most likely some Cannabis product, and was not high during school/ at the time of the test. He/she would probably not have been detected if it weren't for the drug test. In the best case the kid gets detected, becomes stigmatized as a drug user by his teachers and peers, which will result in his life becoming shitty. Because the kid has drugs available (obviously) and overall life has become shitty, it will increase its use trying to make life look better. The drugs that are suitable for such a purpose are usually highly addictive. If it hadn't had a drug problem before, it surely does now.
2) The kid has a drug problem already and is high during class. Most likely the teachers and parents would notice it without the kid ever getting drug tested. Everything else is analogous to scenario 1.
Sorry, I don't really see any gain in drug testing kids.  All I see is a fucking witch hunt in schools.
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durian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant



Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 17,096
Loc: Raccoon City
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Re: School district performs drug tests at parents' request [Re: Humility]
#17283660 - 11/26/12 09:08 AM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Humility said: whatever arbitrary age you define as being prerequisite
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Humility said: trying to get my body thrown in a cage for consensual activity.
OK. I get it. Once you've achieved the level of having individual initiative, you're probably as close to moral adulthood as you're ever going to get.
But, I'm questioning whether it's physically possible to do a harder drug, like heroin, under the nose of your 'landlords' and still be discreet.
I've even seen it a work, and the guy couldn't maintain to save his life.
These kids are irresponsible from the standpoint of attracting attention to themselves, or it would normally be a non-issue.
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Humility
Working on it



Registered: 10/07/08
Posts: 6,745
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Re: School district performs drug tests at parents' request [Re: durian_2008]
#17283693 - 11/26/12 09:21 AM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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I need you to explain that again for me, I wasn't able to understand what you're trying to communicate. I get the first line but I don't see where you're going with one's landlord knowing about one doing heroin, you assuming someone was doing heroin at your job and how kids who use drugs are "irresponsible" or how using drugs in and of itself equates to irresponsibility.
I don't understand what you're trying to say.
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Magick
Thinker


Registered: 01/25/09
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Re: School district performs drug tests at parents' request [Re: Humility] 1
#17284167 - 11/26/12 11:35 AM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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And yet nobody ever reads what I post
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Maharishi_2_U
Opt Out Super Fag


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 6,316
Loc: The Streets
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Re: School district performs drug tests at parents' request [Re: Magick]
#17286402 - 11/26/12 06:19 PM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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 =
Lack of communication
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durian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant



Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 17,096
Loc: Raccoon City
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Re: School district performs drug tests at parents' request [Re: Maharishi_2_U]
#17299776 - 11/28/12 08:14 PM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
you assuming someone was doing heroin at your job
It was done right in front of me, and I was invited to join in.
When the manager returned, this did not go unnoticed.
Quote:
I don't see where you're going with one's landlord knowing about one doing heroin
I was speaking of parents as landlords. You don't necessarily respect them on a personal level, yet are still legally answerable to them, if you're a kid, living at home.
Is it responsible to do this under your parents' noses, or at any time, when you would be scrutinized.
If you're being discreet, what makes them think to test you.
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Repertoire89
Cat



Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 21,773
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Re: School district performs drug tests at parents' request [Re: durian_2008]
#17356688 - 12/08/12 05:39 PM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
durian_2008 said: If you're being discreet, what makes them think to test you.
Being brainwashed by Mitt Romney and Obama.
Just to clarify, I did change my stance on this subject.
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durian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant



Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 17,096
Loc: Raccoon City
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Re: School district performs drug tests at parents' request [Re: Repertoire89]
#17357868 - 12/08/12 09:44 PM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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I didn't vote for either, lesser of two evils.
But, yes, a paranoid person might needlessly harass perfectly innocent kids.
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HundredYards
Stranger
Registered: 11/05/12
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Re: School district performs drug tests at parents' request [Re: durian_2008]
#17357918 - 12/08/12 09:54 PM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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theres no such thing
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shLong



Registered: 03/04/10
Posts: 25,330
Loc: 'sconsin
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Re: School district performs drug tests at parents' request [Re: Maharishi_2_U]
#17361301 - 12/09/12 02:07 PM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Maharishi_2_U said: I wish I bad not began using drugs at an early age. I think it has caused me social, mental, and legal troubles.
Yeah, you. Were not all you, though, thankfully.
I can't believe some of these replies
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