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Offlinebabaram
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Has Anyone Here Ever Personally Had a Drug Test for Psilocybin?
    #17359353 - 12/09/12 08:01 AM (9 years, 6 months ago)

I've read all the posts on drug tests for Psilocybin, and have 2 questions:

1. The Erowid page on Psiloycbin drug tests is almost 10 years old; even most of the threads on Shroomery are several years old.  Does anyone here know if there have been advances in the drug testing field that make testing for Psilocybin easier?  For instance, I know that great strides have been made in LSD testing, and it is very easy to now do an LSD test if requested.

2.  Has anyone here ever personally been tested for Psilocybin?  Not FOAF, etc.  If so, what was the situation?

Thanks, all!


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OfflineCuriousgeorge22
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Re: Has Anyone Here Ever Personally Had a Drug Test for Psilocybin? [Re: babaram]
    #17359361 - 12/09/12 08:04 AM (9 years, 6 months ago)

why do you care??


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
“The people who were trying to make this world worse are not taking the day off.
Why should I?” - Bob Marley


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OfflineBoomin907
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Re: Has Anyone Here Ever Personally Had a Drug Test for Psilocybin? [Re: babaram]
    #17359372 - 12/09/12 08:08 AM (9 years, 6 months ago)

It's not a friend but my dad is a security guard at an important place and his drug test is from the hair and they go back three months and check for basically all the above. I worked dot jobs and they have not checked for it just the main ones most others do.


--------------------
Yes I watch a lot of movies.

Pick it, pack it, fire it up, come along and take a hit from the bong.

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Offlinecloudpersona
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Re: Has Anyone Here Ever Personally Had a Drug Test for Psilocybin? [Re: babaram]
    #17359519 - 12/09/12 09:20 AM (9 years, 6 months ago)

No.


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“The shaman is not merely a sick man, or a madman; he is a sick man who has healed himself.”
– Terence McKenna
“If the words ‘life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness’ don’t include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn’t worth the hemp it was written on.”
-Terence McKenna


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OfflineTr1p4Kn0wl3dg3
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Re: Has Anyone Here Ever Personally Had a Drug Test for Psilocybin? [Re: cloudpersona]
    #17359983 - 12/09/12 12:08 PM (9 years, 6 months ago)

I actually get screened for mushrooms among a lot of other things in this probation-required program called "Drug Court."  It's only detectable for 1-3 days, though I can't risk it as I get screened twice a week regularly and once randomly over the weekend. 
This program is intense though, and I've never heard of anyone being tested for psilocybin on standard probation or in any standard urine screen. 
When I was on regular probation I used mushrooms and many other psychedelics, and was never tested for them once.
I don't believe they use a panel test and I am not sure if there is one for Psilocybin. 
They send everyone in the program's urine off to the probation office where they have a machine that does the testing for everything from spice to alcohol.  These guys are pretty hardcore.


--------------------
"I loved when Bush came out and said, "We are losing the war against drugs." You know what that implies? There's a war being fought, and the people on drugs are winning it."
-Bill Hicks, Just for Laughs Comedy Festival, 1990

“I'm the one that's got to die when it's time for me to die, so let me live my life the way I want to.”
― Jimi Hendrix

"Drugs have taught an entire generation of American kids the metric system". … P.J. O’Rourke


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Invisiblesailing
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Re: Has Anyone Here Ever Personally Had a Drug Test for Psilocybin? [Re: Tr1p4Kn0wl3dg3]
    #17360008 - 12/09/12 12:13 PM (9 years, 6 months ago)

i have never been tested for mushrooms or lsd. i am in the military.


--------------------
Love is the deep spiritual connection between the self and all things. We are all a part of the same universe.

Crazy cat peekin through a lace bandanna,like a one eyed cheshire, like a diamond eyed jack.

:awecid2:


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Offlinebabaram
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Re: Has Anyone Here Ever Personally Had a Drug Test for Psilocybin? [Re: sailing]
    #17360056 - 12/09/12 12:25 PM (9 years, 6 months ago)

Trip4 and sailing:  you guys have been very helpful and make me feel better.  Many thanks.


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Invisibleblahblahblah
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Registered: 10/25/01
Posts: 1,022
Loc: South America
Re: Has Anyone Here Ever Personally Had a Drug Test for Psilocybin? [Re: babaram]
    #17360244 - 12/09/12 01:07 PM (9 years, 6 months ago)

I worked in a clinical lab before moving to South America. There are no analytes for psylocybin or psylocin that I know of. There are alcohol, LSD, MDMA & amphetamines, Cocain, PCP, THC, and opiates, and semi-synthetic opiates such as hydrocodone, hydromorphone, oxycodone, and oxymorphone. The semisynthetic opitates are not part of our standard drug panel, they must be requested by the person who ordered the test (which raises the cost of the test).

Hair samples detect 2-3 months prior to the test, but not the past 1-2 weeks. Urine is recent obviously, with THC being the most persistent metabolite, but it is typically out your system (for urine and blood) within 14 days even as a heavy smoker.

I know that you want to know about hair folicle tests, I have never run one so I can't comment from experience. I can, however, comment on the type of test used for the screening. It is called ELISA, or enzyme linked immuno-absorbant assay. It is the same testing method used for urine in our lab. The test uses labeled antibodies to detect a substance, in this case the metabolites of specific drugs. Antibodies are the things produced by your body to fight infection, but they can be grown from animals like mice to target other non-pathogen molecules. In some cases the label attached to the antibody is a flourescent tag, in others it is a latex particle which makes agglutination visible. To break it down barney style, if the test is positive, it shows up as a color change in the tube or latex clumps on a microscope slide. The test is both sensitive and specific, but it still has a margin of error. This is why the lab typically uses a gas chromotography test to confirm drug tests, it is also both sensitive and specific, but it is expensive. It allows confirmation of the sample and provides the lab a safeguard against false positives.

The best way to beat a urine drug test, especially if it is the kind where the test is on the side of the cup, is to drink lots of water the day of the test. Drinking lots of water for days prior to a test doesn't really do anything but make you uncomfortable and is probably unnecessary.  Most tests do not measure urine creatinine, which the main metabolite used to measure the dilution of urine in a urine drug screen. Cranberry juice is a diuretic, which means it makes your kidneys concentrate your urine less... in other words diluting the urine more. Cranberry juice does not clean your system, it just makes you piss. If you know you have a drug test, drink lots of water, piss a few times before you take the test, and take something with vitamin B like an energy drink. The vitamin B complexes pass through into the urine and give it a yellow color. If the nurse who takes the urine suspects that you have been drinking lots water to dilute your urine, they can invalidate the test and make you come back another day. Once it gets to the lab tech, we don't care what it looks like. We load it onto the machine, and test it. If your drug test is positive, it usually goes to chromotography for validation. In our lab we just retest it to confirm the positive. Lab techs make lots of mistakes. If we don't run QC right, it fucks up the results of a test. If the sample sits too long, it fucks up the test, we can mislabel, etc etc; so if you pop hot, I would deny it and ask to have the lab investigated, and request to be retested which you can do. Protocol is to hold onto the positive sample for a certain period of time. Ours is 24 hours. After that, even in the fridge, the urine begins to decompose. The lab may have a procedure to freeze the sample, but in most cases if they have done a confirmatory test they will not hold the sample as the confirmatory tests provides enough justification to label the sample positive. 


So to answer your question, if he has a drug test, he almost certainly won't be tested for mushrooms unless they suspect it.

Here is the information from a major lab company (1 of 2 companies that are in almost every city) in the US regarding drug testing. It applies to both urine and hair, as the are run via the same testing methods.
http://www.questdiagnostics.com/dms/Documents/Other/hair_testing_faq.pdf

If you want to get even more in depth this is the machine we use in our lab. If you search for PCP, THC or whatever it will give you the technical data on the analytes used in specific tests. You can see what causes false negatives, etc.
https://www.beckmancoulter.com/wsrportal/page/techdocSearch?sortColumn=documentName&sortOrder=asc&startIndex=1&searchByURL=no&searchType=searchByReagent&reagent=thc&documentCategoryId=&languageCode=en&pageSize=10&downloadTechDocFileFormat=exe&activeCategoriesFlag=true


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Invisibleblahblahblah
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Posts: 1,022
Loc: South America
Re: Has Anyone Here Ever Personally Had a Drug Test for Psilocybin? [Re: sailing]
    #17360261 - 12/09/12 01:10 PM (9 years, 6 months ago)

You probably have been tested for LSD, you just didn't know it. I am one of the ones that would have tested your sample. It is on a rotational basis, there is standard panel and then a couple of tests that are rotated per week.


Edited by blahblahblah (12/09/12 01:11 PM)


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Invisiblesailing
China Cat Sunflower
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Re: Has Anyone Here Ever Personally Had a Drug Test for Psilocybin? [Re: blahblahblah]
    #17360322 - 12/09/12 01:24 PM (9 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

blahblahblah said:
You probably have been tested for LSD, you just didn't know it. I am one of the ones that would have tested your sample. It is on a rotational basis, there is standard panel and then a couple of tests that are rotated per week.



interesting. i eat paper every week haha. i guess those tests are inefficient. that was a very informative post, thank you. you have 5 shrooms coming your way.

also what information do you have on how long lsd stays in the system? ive heard all sorts of answers and im pretty sure 99% of them are myths. also, any light on the spinal tap myth?


--------------------
Love is the deep spiritual connection between the self and all things. We are all a part of the same universe.

Crazy cat peekin through a lace bandanna,like a one eyed cheshire, like a diamond eyed jack.

:awecid2:


Edited by sailing (12/09/12 01:24 PM)


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OfflineTr1p4Kn0wl3dg3
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Re: Has Anyone Here Ever Personally Had a Drug Test for Psilocybin? [Re: blahblahblah]
    #17360337 - 12/09/12 01:27 PM (9 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

blahblahblah said:
I work in a clinical lab. There are no analytes for psylocybin or psylocin that I know of. There are alcohol, LSD, MDMA & amphetamines, Cocain, PCP, THC, and opiates, and semi-synthetic opiates such as hydrocodone, hydromorphone, oxycodone, and oxymorphone. The semisynthetic opitates are not part of our standard drug panel, they must be requested by the person who ordered the test (which raises the cost of the test).




I am almost 100% certain that the Drug Court program in the state of Virginia has, and does use, a test for mushrooms, as well as barbiturates, benzos, every opiate and variation I can think of, cocaine, mdma, MDA, meth, amphetamines, PCP, THC, spice, alcohol, the list goes on.  I did find this on Erowid a moment ago:

Quote:

It is, however, technically possible to detect psilocybin and psilocin with a drug test and we have received reports of psilocybin testing during criminal probation and a school-related drug test. Because they are less standard, these tests are more expensive to give than the basic test. The more expensive and comprehensive drug tests are sometimes used in cases where there is specific reason to believe that psilocybin mushrooms use is an issue; for example, an individual who is on probation for mushroom use might be specifically tested for the presence of psilocybin in hir system. However, generally mushroom use does not cause an individual to test positive on most random drug tests given by an employer or school.

Once ingested, most of the psilocybin is converted into psilocin within the first hour. Most of the psilocin is then excreted within the first 8 hours...but portions remain in the system for several weeks. From Stafford's Psychedelics Encyclopedia:




The program I am in also had a method for testing and detecting dilution.  Whether or not B vitamins are ingested, they do find out.  There is a number of people every month actually that either get terminated from the program or have to do a small amount of time as punishment for diluted screens, as diluted screens are treated as an automatic positive.

As I said before though, this program is very intense, and is by no means comparable to regular probation.  To address the costs, it is the members of the program who are required to pay.  Up to $50 a month, plus added costs depending on each persons situation and case.

I won't deny that you're more knowing in this area, and I will ask tomorrow when I go in for my group and urine screen what it is they test for.  They might throw a random test and some questions my way, but I have nothing to hide.  Been sober for quite a while now, though not by choice.  I just find the best way to pass a urine screen is just not using at all.


--------------------
"I loved when Bush came out and said, "We are losing the war against drugs." You know what that implies? There's a war being fought, and the people on drugs are winning it."
-Bill Hicks, Just for Laughs Comedy Festival, 1990

“I'm the one that's got to die when it's time for me to die, so let me live my life the way I want to.”
― Jimi Hendrix

"Drugs have taught an entire generation of American kids the metric system". … P.J. O’Rourke


Edited by Tr1p4Kn0wl3dg3 (12/09/12 01:28 PM)


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Invisibleblahblahblah
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Registered: 10/25/01
Posts: 1,022
Loc: South America
Re: Has Anyone Here Ever Personally Had a Drug Test for Psilocybin? [Re: Tr1p4Kn0wl3dg3]
    #17362999 - 12/09/12 08:07 PM (9 years, 6 months ago)

A drug court program would certainly be a different case. They know you use drugs, and are trying to find any and all disobedience. Gas chromotography can certainly find the metabolites of psilocin and psilocybin in your system. I am sure they probably have an ELISA test for psilocin/cybin, how sensitive or specific it is I cannot say for sure because I can't find any info on it. I can only say that the lab I worked for didn't have the analytes to test for them with ELISA testing, and neither do these national labs as far as I know. We tested military and government workers there regularly.

As for testing CSF (cerebral-spinal fluid) for LSD or anything else, a spinal tap is a dangerous procedure, and if someone is trying to test you for anything besides something serious like meningitis with a spinal tap you better throw a fit and refuse that shit (you have every right to refuse any medical care or procedure, unless you are in danger of dying). CSF is made by filtering blood plasma, so it would be logical to assume that there wouldn't be much in your CSF that isn't in your blood. The reverse isn't true though, as the blood brain barrier prevents most things from passing. Basically, if you have a drug that is able to get to your brain, and is in the CSF, it is probably going to be in the same or higher concentrations in the blood. If it is not in your blood plasma, it is very likely that it isn't hiding in your spinal cavity.

If you believe that they do test for mushrooms and you are worried about it, consider this... Psilocin has a half life of 2-3 hours, and Psilocybin has an elimination half life of 163 min +- 64 minutes. Both are metabolized by the liver and cleared through the kidneys (goes into your urine). The dosage range is 4 - 10mg of psilocybin (there is also psilocybin, but for simplicity sake), which means that within ~3 hours you have metabolized and cleared half of the dose into your urine, and within 24 hours you have cleared the dosage to 0.0390625 mg or about 390 micrograms (ug). Divide this number by total blood plasma of a normal human (around 3 litres) and you are looking at around 130ng/ml (1 ug/l = 1 ng/ml) after 24 hours. My math may be off. As long as you do not hold your piss or give the drug testers your first morning void the day after you take the mushrooms, you should be good within 24 hours. One thing to note, is that urine is concentrated from blood plasma, which means that the concentration of a metabolite in your urine is going to be much higher than that of your blood plasma. Also note that drinking water to dilute your urine has the opposite effect.

LSD has a blood plasma half life of 5.1 hours, with a 1ug/kg of body weight average dose, the peak plasma concentration was 5ng/ml at 3 hours. So if you are 180 lbs and you take a blotter with an 80ug dose on it you would probably have 5ng/ml of blood plasma at 3 hours. This also means that every 5 hours after the three hour mark, half of what was in your system has been metabolized by your liver and cleared into your urine. The only test for urine ELISA I found had a lower limit of 0.5ug/L, or 0.5ug/ml, but the document (clinchem) said that labs sometimes go as low as 0.1ug/ml. At 23 hours (est) past ingestion, your blood plasma concentration would be below the lower limit of a normal lab, and at 30 hours would be the below the 0.1ug/ml mark. Again, urine concentrations would be higher unless you are drinking enough water.

Break it down barney style again. Lets say you took a dose of LSD (or mushrooms really) it would take a normal male about 33 hours post ingestion to be below the testable level.

GC/MS (per the clinchem document) is about the same sensitivity as the ELISA for the LSD tests. The document outlines a more sensitive test, but I would question whether it has been implemented yet. It states that it is sensitive to the 8ng/L level, or about 1000 times more sensitive. It would take 53 hours rather than 33 post ingestion to be below the testable limit.

All of this is theoretical. Math is fun, but your body doesn't subscribe to the same math principles that the test does. A faster metabolism might lower the half life, while a slower one would increase the half life.

References:
http://www.clinchem.org/content/44/5/985.full (LSD ELISA TEST)
http://cocaine.org/faq.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psilocybin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psilocin


Edited by blahblahblah (12/11/12 12:45 PM)


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Invisibleblahblahblah
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Re: Has Anyone Here Ever Personally Had a Drug Test for Psilocybin? [Re: Tr1p4Kn0wl3dg3]
    #17363029 - 12/09/12 08:12 PM (9 years, 6 months ago)

I forgot barbituates and benzos. These tests are actually standard hospital tests that they run on patients for therapeutic drug monitoring.

There is also a test for spice from what I hear, but it has to be asked for specifically to be run. That was developed recently, and I haven't worked in a lab for a half year or so, so I haven't run it myself.

There are two methods for testing for dilution, one would be specific gravity of the urine and the other is urine creatinine. Both would be lowered if you drink lots of water. For the normal private sector employer drug test, drinking lots of water and taking some vitamin B would probably be enough to pass most tests.

FYI for people that are interested, the reason why THC is persistent in the your system is because it binds to serum proteins (just found this out on WIKIPEDIA), such as albumin. Basically, 95-99% of the THC you inhale binds to protein, so you are only feeling the effects of 1-5% of the THC you ingest. This also means that it is released slower, as it is detached from blood protein and cleared  (this is all my understanding of how it works, it may not be accurate). Albumin is cleared through the urine. From what Wiki says, more THC is cleared through your feces than urine. Maybe they will make a fecal THC test for its accuracy potential lol.


Edited by blahblahblah (12/09/12 08:22 PM)


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OfflineTr1p4Kn0wl3dg3
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Re: Has Anyone Here Ever Personally Had a Drug Test for Psilocybin? [Re: blahblahblah]
    #17363918 - 12/09/12 10:27 PM (9 years, 6 months ago)

They actually have a panel test for spice they use in the program.  I personally am not a fan of the stuff, but a few members of the Drug Court have gotten locked up for it.  The panel test takes about 5 minutes longer than other panel tests.  As I said before, I've been clean for a few months now, since August actually.  It's just not worth risk getting high and possibly getting caught.  If I successfully complete the program, my felony gets dismissed, and that's worth far more than a quick buzz.  I have been planning a trip with 4 ACO DMT next week, which there is no known urine screen for or any false positives.  I'm excited, it's been a long time since I've used psychedelics, let alone 4 ACO.

And thankfully spinal taps are not something I have to worry about.  You can be damn sure I'd refuse it if they tried and tell them to go to hell.

On another note, for any users of SSRI anti-depressants out there, I was shocked to find that they can cause a false positive for PCP.  A member of the program is prescribed Effexor, and they tested positive for PCP on a panel test.  After being sent to the lab for confirmation is found the panel test was wrong, and we found out that multiple SSRI drugs can cause the false positive.  I wonder why that is?


--------------------
"I loved when Bush came out and said, "We are losing the war against drugs." You know what that implies? There's a war being fought, and the people on drugs are winning it."
-Bill Hicks, Just for Laughs Comedy Festival, 1990

“I'm the one that's got to die when it's time for me to die, so let me live my life the way I want to.”
― Jimi Hendrix

"Drugs have taught an entire generation of American kids the metric system". … P.J. O’Rourke


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Offlinebabaram
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Re: Has Anyone Here Ever Personally Had a Drug Test for Psilocybin? [Re: blahblahblah]
    #17365604 - 12/10/12 05:56 AM (9 years, 6 months ago)

blahblah: wow, just wow.  Thanks so much.  Bottom line seems to be, as I've read in other posts, psilocybin testing is very rare, very expensive, and the tester probably wants a specific reason to test for it before they pay for the test.  Thanks!


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Invisiblesailing
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Re: Has Anyone Here Ever Personally Had a Drug Test for Psilocybin? [Re: babaram]
    #17365610 - 12/10/12 06:01 AM (9 years, 6 months ago)

thanks for the excellent info man. thanks!


--------------------
Love is the deep spiritual connection between the self and all things. We are all a part of the same universe.

Crazy cat peekin through a lace bandanna,like a one eyed cheshire, like a diamond eyed jack.

:awecid2:


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