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OfflineTheUnknownPoet
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Adding X-X, DMT to Agar mix
    #17354560 - 12/08/12 10:20 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I'm doing an agar grow, and I was wondering, would it make my Ps. Cubensis any more potent if I mixed in 5 grams of DMT and 5 grams of ho-dmt into my agar?

In theory, won't the mycelium consume it and have an easier time producing Psilocin?

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Invisiblenooneman
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Re: Adding X-X, DMT to Agar mix [Re: TheUnknownPoet]
    #17354578 - 12/08/12 10:24 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Nope, the bottleneck is not the DMT. Adding DMT will do nothing except lose you some DMT, and possibly contaminate your agar.

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OfflineShroomzWeedLsd
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Re: Adding X-X, DMT to Agar mix [Re: nooneman]
    #17354630 - 12/08/12 10:36 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

No, but there was a thing on here I saw that said adding 500mg of tryptophan to a substrate would make them more potent but I'll find the link latter I'm busy now


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OfflineTheUnknownPoet
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Re: Adding X-X, DMT to Agar mix [Re: ShroomzWeedLsd]
    #17354650 - 12/08/12 10:42 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

ShroomzWeedLsd said:
No, but there was a thing on here I saw that said adding 500mg of tryptophan to a substrate would make them more potent but I'll find the link latter I'm busy now




tryptophan is not otc here. would 5-htp work?

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Invisiblenooneman
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Re: Adding X-X, DMT to Agar mix [Re: TheUnknownPoet]
    #17354660 - 12/08/12 10:45 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Tryptophan and other additivies don't work either. The bottleneck is the final step, the conversion to psilocin happens at a constant rate that is fairly slow. Mushrooms already have WAY more precursors than they can possibly convert. That's why some are more potent than others becuse some can convert to psilocin at a faster rate than others.

It has nothing to do with the number of precursors and everything to do with genetics.

Edited by nooneman (12/08/12 10:45 AM)

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OfflineTheUnknownPoet
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Re: Adding X-X, DMT to Agar mix [Re: nooneman]
    #17354990 - 12/08/12 11:54 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Thank you for the information.

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Invisiblechopstick
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Re: Adding X-X, DMT to Agar mix [Re: TheUnknownPoet]
    #17357078 - 12/08/12 07:14 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I think more experimentation is needed. Use some more exotic chemicals.

From wikipedia

Their paper cites a 10 step synthesis of 4-HO-5-MeO-DMT from ortho-vanillin. However, Alexander Shulgin has explained that it could be possible to cultivate 4-HO-5-MeO-DMT in psilocybin mushrooms by adding 5-MeO-DMT to the growing substrate of the fungus. Though this method has never been explored with 5-MeO-DMT, it has been used successfully for changing DET into 4-HO-DET and 4-PO-DET, both of which had never before been found in nature.[2]

The actual comment from shulgin is on erowid somewhere, I imagine some crazy shit could be done in the proper situation

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InvisibleMykes logos
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Re: Adding X-X, DMT to Agar mix [Re: TheUnknownPoet]
    #17357418 - 12/08/12 08:20 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

TheUnknownPoet said:
I'm doing an agar grow, and I was wondering, would it make my Ps. Cubensis any more potent if I mixed in 5 grams of DMT and 5 grams of ho-dmt into my agar?

In theory, won't the mycelium consume it and have an easier time producing Psilocin?




:facepalm:

this isn't an advanced mycology forum topic... Save your DMT and agar for better use (separately).

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Adding X-X, DMT to Agar mix [Re: TheUnknownPoet]
    #17359013 - 12/09/12 02:28 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

TheUnknownPoet said:
I'm doing an agar grow, and I was wondering, would it make my Ps. Cubensis any more potent if I mixed in 5 grams of DMT and 5 grams of ho-dmt into my agar?

In theory, won't the mycelium consume it and have an easier time producing Psilocin?





Yes, but only if its deficient in exactly what you give it, which essentially means no.

This kinda thing doesn't work in practice generally due to the way the organism's metabolism works.  There's generally several different reactions going on with every intermediate, and the system is regulated so that a simple addition of reactant doesn't lead to sustained increase in product.

The actual psilocybin is likely also being metabolized into other things and broken down, and even if you can appreciably increase the rate of psilocybin production, that doesn't mean it will translate into an increase in its concentration.


Its kinda like pouring a lot more water into a series of waterfalls- the rate of water falling may increase, but that doesn't mean the actual volume of water behind each waterfall increases by any appreciable amount.  Now imagine each waterfall has three different paths and you'll start to get the picture.

When I looked into this with mescaline-producing cacti it seemed pretty evident that adding precursors didn't help at all and may actually hurt in some situations by creating some negative feedback on the pathway that produced the mescaline.

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OfflineTheUnknownPoet
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Re: Adding X-X, DMT to Agar mix [Re: johnm214]
    #17380542 - 12/12/12 03:10 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
Quote:

TheUnknownPoet said:
I'm doing an agar grow, and I was wondering, would it make my Ps. Cubensis any more potent if I mixed in 5 grams of DMT and 5 grams of ho-dmt into my agar?

In theory, won't the mycelium consume it and have an easier time producing Psilocin?





Yes, but only if its deficient in exactly what you give it, which essentially means no.

This kinda thing doesn't work in practice generally due to the way the organism's metabolism works.  There's generally several different reactions going on with every intermediate, and the system is regulated so that a simple addition of reactant doesn't lead to sustained increase in product.

The actual psilocybin is likely also being metabolized into other things and broken down, and even if you can appreciably increase the rate of psilocybin production, that doesn't mean it will translate into an increase in its concentration.


Its kinda like pouring a lot more water into a series of waterfalls- the rate of water falling may increase, but that doesn't mean the actual volume of water behind each waterfall increases by any appreciable amount.  Now imagine each waterfall has three different paths and you'll start to get the picture.

When I looked into this with mescaline-producing cacti it seemed pretty evident that adding precursors didn't help at all and may actually hurt in some situations by creating some negative feedback on the pathway that produced the mescaline.




So then, how do you increase the potency then?

What if i added an insane amount of 4-ho-dmt to it?
Like, a pound or so into the substrate?

I guess it couldn't really hurt to try, I'll do this and keep people posted. SOMETHING has to happen.

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Offlineindahighcountry
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Re: Adding X-X, DMT to Agar mix [Re: TheUnknownPoet]
    #17385029 - 12/13/12 10:44 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

if you have the resources to throw at it, give it a shot and report back

my gut says it won't make any significant difference -- again being that myc metabolizes vs absorbs nutrients but could make for an interesting experiment

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OfflineBothHands
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Re: Adding X-X, DMT to Agar mix [Re: TheUnknownPoet]
    #17385059 - 12/13/12 10:53 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

TheUnknownPoet said:
What if i added an insane amount of 4-ho-dmt to it?
Like, a pound or so into the substrate?

I guess it couldn't really hurt to try, I'll do this and keep people posted.





A pound of 4-HO-DMT?  Really?  It couldn't hurt to try?  That's about 75,000 grams of mushrooms.  Even at the best prices, that's well over 100,000$  How can that not hurt to try?  For one batch of above average potency mushrooms?  Have you lost your fucking mind?

Why don't you just lay the extra 4-HO-DMT onto the mushroom with acetone or something?


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OfflineTheUnknownPoet
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Re: Adding X-X, DMT to Agar mix [Re: BothHands]
    #17385125 - 12/13/12 11:06 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

BothHands said:
Quote:

TheUnknownPoet said:
What if i added an insane amount of 4-ho-dmt to it?
Like, a pound or so into the substrate?

I guess it couldn't really hurt to try, I'll do this and keep people posted.





A pound of 4-HO-DMT?  Really?  It couldn't hurt to try?  That's about 75,000 grams of mushrooms.  Even at the best prices, that's well over 100,000$  How can that not hurt to try?  For one batch of above average potency mushrooms?  Have you lost your fucking mind?

Why don't you just lay the extra 4-HO-DMT onto the mushroom with acetone or something?




I don't see how acetone would do anything useful...

Is there a procedure for this?

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Invisiblenooneman
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Re: Adding X-X, DMT to Agar mix [Re: BothHands]
    #17385128 - 12/13/12 11:06 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Even more importantly: 4-ho-dmt is psilocin. If you have psilocin, why not just eat it instead of trying to grow more psilocin? :confused:

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OfflineTheUnknownPoet
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Re: Adding X-X, DMT to Agar mix [Re: nooneman]
    #17385141 - 12/13/12 11:10 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

nooneman said:
Even more importantly: 4-ho-dmt is psilocin. If you have psilocin, why not just eat it instead of trying to grow more psilocin? :confused:




Because I want to grow more, not eat it. I couldn't possibly ever go through all this stuff in my lifetime, so why not try to do something useful with it? If I get a strain of super potent muchrooms, I could give them away for the benefit of humanity.

Edited by TheUnknownPoet (12/13/12 11:10 AM)

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Invisiblenooneman
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Re: Adding X-X, DMT to Agar mix [Re: TheUnknownPoet]
    #17385147 - 12/13/12 11:11 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Why would you want to grow more when you already have a lifetime supply?

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OfflineTheUnknownPoet
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Re: Adding X-X, DMT to Agar mix [Re: nooneman]
    #17385154 - 12/13/12 11:13 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

nooneman said:
Why would you want to grow more when you already have a lifetime supply?




So that I can give it away to people?
Why else does anyone grow shrooms here anyways?

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Invisiblenooneman
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Re: Adding X-X, DMT to Agar mix [Re: TheUnknownPoet] * 1
    #17385155 - 12/13/12 11:13 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Couldn't you just give away the psilocin?

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OfflineTheUnknownPoet
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Re: Adding X-X, DMT to Agar mix [Re: nooneman]
    #17385165 - 12/13/12 11:16 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

nooneman said:
Couldn't you just give away the psilocin?




No, because then i'd run out and not have any more. However, I gan grow mooshies all day.

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OfflineBothHands
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Re: Adding X-X, DMT to Agar mix [Re: TheUnknownPoet]
    #17385209 - 12/13/12 11:28 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

TheUnknownPoet said:
Quote:

BothHands said:
Quote:

TheUnknownPoet said:
What if i added an insane amount of 4-ho-dmt to it?
Like, a pound or so into the substrate?

I guess it couldn't really hurt to try, I'll do this and keep people posted.





A pound of 4-HO-DMT?  Really?  It couldn't hurt to try?  That's about 75,000 grams of mushrooms.  Even at the best prices, that's well over 100,000$  How can that not hurt to try?  For one batch of above average potency mushrooms?  Have you lost your fucking mind?

Why don't you just lay the extra 4-HO-DMT onto the mushroom with acetone or something?




I don't see how acetone would do anything useful...

Is there a procedure for this?




Acetone is a very fast drying solvent.  You can dissolve the psilocin into the acetone, and then spray it on the mushrooms, then dry it.  You can do this several times if you want to continue to increase the potency.  You're just putting psilocin onto the mushrooms is all.  Would be preferable to do this after the mushrooms have been picked and dried.


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