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World Spirit
PNW



Registered: 07/27/01
Posts: 9,817
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Deleted by admin
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Purple Haze
Lime and limpidgreen, a secondscene

Registered: 12/30/02
Posts: 1,221
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 19 years, 7 months
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I see several people are concerned about damaging themselves with such an experience.
There may be some risks, but as Chinacat said, you could die from having sex or a car may hit you.
If you truly feel you want to exist fully, do it. What do you have to lose when you can ''come out'' of it with a new ego?
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Learyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!


Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 34,132
Loc: High pride!
Last seen: 19 hours, 38 minutes
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Quote:
I don't want there to be.
Why? This could be pivotal in our search for the answer to the age old question "why are we here?".
-------------------- -------------------------------- Mp3 of the month: The Fe-Fi-Four Plus 2 - I Wanna Come Back (From the World of LSD)
Edited by Learyfan (11/08/05 07:47 PM)
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chinacat72
eyes of theworld


Registered: 11/14/02
Posts: 3,626
Loc: Terrapin Station
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Quote:
Enter said: Quote:
My mind is bent but very well intact.
Help me understand you. What does this statement mean, friend?
It means my mind is probably operating alot different(not better or worse) than the rest of society, but still very functionable. I have a very different outlook on life than most "everyday" people I meet. I also have a mind that functions well enough to get a BS with a GPA high enough to get into grad or med school all the while raising three kids. Before LSD I don't think any of this was possible.
-------------------- Some rise Some fall Some climb To get to Terrapin!!!
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PDU
travel kid vs.amerika


Registered: 12/03/02
Posts: 10,675
Loc: beautiful BC
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
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Quote:
Enter said: Let's compare chemicals for a moment, and then try to tell me the same thing.
1. Many humans can "handle" several lines of typical grade cocaine. However, there is a limit to how much one can take before negative effects set in. Some have even died from cocaine overdoses. 2. Heroin, although a very uncommon drug, is done by a small percentage of the population. Some humans can handle it intraveously but many have died trying it, others have died taking too much. 3. Mushrooms can be taken in small amounts or exceedingly large amounts. They're not known to cause death (if indeed they are the 'right' mushroom species' and not a poisonous species). Yet still, they are unbeneficial at a certain amount (ie they do nothing more than keep the intensity going for a longer duration). One hits a plateau. 4. LSD can be taken in small amounts, or like Leary & Dass did - by sipping it from a bottle over the course of three weeks (after a few days they eventually "came down"). But is there an alteration in the experience when one consumes a print? Is there a risk for brain damage, stroke, heart attack, a chemical imbalance, mental instability,m etc? We don't know. We can't say. There's no research on this at all. It's scary.
I dont know people who have thumbprinted, just what i have read, but there seems to very little risk associated with it, research LSD and look at usage patterns in the past, its pretty physiologically harmless. As chinacat said, lots of people have come out fine, and none that have ever been reported a significant turn for the worst after such an event. Seem's like good enough odd's to me. Using drug's, or expanding my horizons is a hobby. Just like biking is a hobby, ive just about died doing that, ive suffered severe stomach ailments from fast food, ive been hit by assholes getting a ride in a car.....eating crystal is likely much safer than any of these things, i dont need a scientific study to tell me that.
-------------------- GO OUTSIDE.
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chinacat72
eyes of theworld


Registered: 11/14/02
Posts: 3,626
Loc: Terrapin Station
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That information is available to anyone willing to seek it. Research into huge dose of LSD will give nothing to science it can use. Research into the benifits of theraputic uses will. The treatment of mental problems with LSD is something that science can measure and validate. The use of huge doses of LSD in blasting people into eternity is something that can't. Also after you realize the difficulty in getting research moving there is absolutaly no way that there will ever be research done on humans using thumbprint doses. Its just not ever going to happen. And it shouldn't either. Thumbprints should be administered by the family in a family setting, not a hospital.
These are experiances ment for certian situations. Its of vital importance as your sliping away and crying and flopping around that the person holding your hand is a kind brother or sister who has been there before. It's easier to let go and let God when your with family. Thumbprints arn't for doctors to study and measure ,but for those who wish to give themselves to our holy sacrement 100%.
People who are printed are people that are felt to be ready and able to reap the benifits from the experiance. If there was a research study done on thumbprints I have no doubt as to the outcome. Doctors can't screen for motivation of heart.
-------------------- Some rise Some fall Some climb To get to Terrapin!!!
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chinacat72
eyes of theworld


Registered: 11/14/02
Posts: 3,626
Loc: Terrapin Station
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Re: The [Re: PDU] 1
#1733043 - 07/20/03 06:24 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
research LSD and look at usage patterns in the past, its pretty physiologically harmless.
I would have to agree. I did a undergraduate mini thesis on LSD potential and safety in treating mental disorders. I am quite convinced that LSD is one of if not the safest drug out there(physiologicaly). More people will die from antibiotics this month than have ever died or will ever die from LSD. LSD can be dangerous mentaly if used improperly or by the wrong people, but I personaly have no doubts about its physiological safety.
On a side not I personaly believe LSD could cause possible physiological complications if used by someone with cardio problems. If the experiance went bad and anxiety and panic were greatly induced its logical this could cause problems. I don't view this as LSDs fault. Also there could possibly be an LD-50 for LSD. We will never know it though.
-------------------- Some rise Some fall Some climb To get to Terrapin!!!
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OLIO
Made of Bones &Dreams

Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 23
Loc: mountains
Last seen: 19 years, 8 months
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China, I completely agree with you on the cardio. I'm not entirely sure that it stops there either. Keep in mind that I am speaking of insane dosages, like a gram. I completely believe that on such a dose, THEORITICALLY, you could (for lack of better terminology) trick your body into death. This maybe possible a few differnt ways.
1. You truly believe that you are going to have a heart attack, so you scare yourself into having one. Basically, the "fight or flight" produces such a severe state that you actually do have a heart attack. Now, would this be an LSD overdose? Or a sort of latent function? Is that even the right terminology? You know what I mean. There have been cases of this before (not LSD). As in "a robber breaks into a house. An old lady sees him and has a heart attack and dies. Did the robber kill her? I say no." 2. You may be able to interrupt electrical impulses that control breathing/heart rate etc...by the power of persuasion basically. Once again, did the LSD kill you, or did you essentially "trick yourself into death". It is no secret that the human body can "shut it self down" in extreme situations.
These are obviously just guesses, but fairly educated guesses. I have taken some pretty severe doses, but no thumbprints or beyond. My best guess is 15,000-20,000 mics. But on such doses, I made a conscience (barely) effort to control my bodily functions. I found it real easy to send my heart rate and breating "To infinity and beyond!!" But it was a million times harder to calm it down.
my $.02 take it for what it's worth.
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Learyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!


Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 34,132
Loc: High pride!
Last seen: 19 hours, 38 minutes
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Re: The [Re: OLIO]
#1733418 - 07/20/03 09:45 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
It is no secret that the human body can "shut it self down" in extreme situations.
But what caused the exteme situation?
LSD
-------------------- -------------------------------- Mp3 of the month: The Fe-Fi-Four Plus 2 - I Wanna Come Back (From the World of LSD)
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chinacat72
eyes of theworld


Registered: 11/14/02
Posts: 3,626
Loc: Terrapin Station
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Re: The [Re: OLIO] 2
#1733533 - 07/20/03 10:27 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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The thing about thumbprints is that after the first hour there is no you to create fear or trick your body into shutting down. We have taken BP and pulse of people on thumbprint size doses before and there is a slightly elevated BP and heart rate, but not to extreme. These were experianced people though, and there was no fear involved. If you take someone with cardio problems that has little or no experiance with LSD and print them, then I could definatly see a bad outcome. It wouldn't be from physiological toxicology from LSD it would be from psychological trauma that interupted natural bio-rythims.IMO. Really much lower doses have this potential also. We all know that our psychological state can greatly effect are physical state. Anybody can have there heart rate and BP go off the charts while there sitting still if the get mad enough. I have high BP myself and am on medication. My kids can annoy me so much sometimes that it sends it through the roof. We can only speculate as to these hypothesis, as no studys will ever be done. The fact that these doses are usually only done by people ready for them greatly helps that there are so little negative outcomes. Thats why I believe prints should be done in the mountians with family and not in a hospital like a lab rat. One thing I have noticed is at print doses after the first hour when you have been vaporized and are completely gone breathing seems to stabalize. Before that the anxiety and fear have folks breathing like there in a marathon. After they have let go though it seems that the body continues to function quite normaly while there away. It's that first hour thats so traumatic. There could be a dosage range though that can cause physiological harm. We don't know it and we never will, and people have survived more than a gram.
-------------------- Some rise Some fall Some climb To get to Terrapin!!!
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OLIO
Made of Bones &Dreams

Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 23
Loc: mountains
Last seen: 19 years, 8 months
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Of course people survive those doses. We are actually in complete agreement China. I too believe the acid to be basically harmless. The Lsd taking over after the first hour or so makes complete sense to me and is an ideal situation so to speak. Maybe the danger (assuming that there is one just for arguements sake) lies in the stages where you barely have control. In my weak little hypothesis, this is where you could potentially wreck yourself. From experience, like I said, I have played around with just these things. After a few thousand mics, I have intentionally thrown myself into such situations. They were pretty futile however, because I knew that I was OK, and the LSD does take over. But maybe someone who was dosed at such a level without them knowing, that had never tripped? Fighting such a dose tooth and nail could/would have severe psych/(possibly physical consequences).
Just for clarification, most of these half assed experimets were with the Jesus blotter in '94 I believe. Midwest tour.
Just to clarify/wrap up, I don't believe in an LD50 anywhere close to what someone might eat.
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ZippoZ
Knomadic


Registered: 06/17/03
Posts: 13,227
Loc: Pongyang, North Korea
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Re: The [Re: OLIO]
#1733809 - 07/21/03 12:20 AM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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LD50 46 mg/kg i.v.(mice) LD50 16.5 mg/kg i.v. (rats) LD50 .3 mg/kg i.v.(rabbits)
these are some ld50's as reported From the Merck Index 12th Edition
-------------------- PEACE
zippoz "in times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m management, too much programming and control, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption" "People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."
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World Spirit
PNW



Registered: 07/27/01
Posts: 9,817
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Deleted by admin
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Phencyclidine
Molecule

Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 2,915
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I missed something here. I didn't read all the threads, but I can't deduce it from what I have read.
1) What is thumbprinting? (sounds to me that it involves taking a high dose of LSD)
2) What is the point of thumbprinting?
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World Spirit
PNW



Registered: 07/27/01
Posts: 9,817
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Deleted by admin
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chinacat72
eyes of theworld


Registered: 11/14/02
Posts: 3,626
Loc: Terrapin Station
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I don't follow your secenerio at all? Are you asking what if the guy won't go back to his job? Job? Whats that?
-------------------- Some rise Some fall Some climb To get to Terrapin!!!
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chinacat72
eyes of theworld


Registered: 11/14/02
Posts: 3,626
Loc: Terrapin Station
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Quote:
1) What is thumbprinting? (sounds to me that it involves taking a high dose of LSD)
2) What is the point of thumbprinting?
1. It's a little tradition were people who work with crystal stick there thumb in it and lick it off. Dose can be from 50mg-1/2gram. My largest was probably around 1/10th of a gram, though whiterasta has me beat by far as do alot of people. A dose this size is like no other. It's a huge difference between taking a couple mgs. The so called saturation level of LSD is quickly toasted at this level. WR can explian this hypothesis better than me. It's also very exhausting and shattering. Something i'm glad I did, but wouldn't do again.
2. The point. It's mostly a ritual of trust. The upper levels of the LSD network are not like any other. There's a level of dedication and trust between each other that isn't found elsewere. This is why the DEA has been so unsuccessful in busting it up. The purpose of a thumbprint is to make sure that someone is on the level and there heart is in the right place. It's a shattering experiance. To explain anymore I would have to get into the whole LSD family philosophy. Some of it is explained in this thread. If your interested read it, though it appears to have gotten kind of long.
-------------------- Some rise Some fall Some climb To get to Terrapin!!!
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Phluck
Carpal Tunnel


Registered: 04/10/99
Posts: 11,394
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 4 months, 8 hours
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Actually, cardiovascular problems have been reported with extremely high dose cases.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1149410&dopt=Abstract
That's the case of the guys who snorted some acid.
"Emesis and collapse occurred along with sign of sympathetic overactivity, hyperthermia, coma, and respiratory arrest. Mild generalized bleeding occurred in several patients and evidence of platelet dysfunction was present in all."
They recovered and were fine, but there obviously could have been problems.
This dose was likely much, much higher than a thumbprint would probably be. The chances of anyone taking a dose like this is extremely rare.
-------------------- "I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson http://phluck.is-after.us
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chinacat72
eyes of theworld


Registered: 11/14/02
Posts: 3,626
Loc: Terrapin Station
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Re: The [Re: Phluck] 1
#1734891 - 07/21/03 12:39 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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I tried to get the full text from that journal last year. I had my campus library order it ,but still havn't gotten it(mabye I should pay my fines). I'm interested to see the results of there bloodwork. They were no doubt poly drug abusers. I would specificaly like to know if there was cocaine or some CNS stimulant present in there blood. I would also like to know exactly how much they snorted. Mickey Hart of the Grateful Dead had two of his kids mistakenly snort crystalline LSD and besides the expected panic they suffered no physical problem. The few folks that I know that have snorted crystal have had no problems either. Mabye these folks just snorted a very massive amount. I would like to learn alot more. Snorting is a much more bio-efficient way to consume some drugs. There is a wide margin between what it takes to get off eating and snorting most drugs. This margin get even bigger as you move to IV. This journal has the possibilty to tell us if there is a real physiological danger of LSD at massive doses. If they were using other drugs(which they probably wereIMO) then it can't tell us much. By far the most disaterous trips I have witnessed were people using large doses of LSD during or after stimulant use. It was complete torture for them. I can't imagine the suprise of thinking your doing a fat line of coke and it turns out to be LSD. You would be high within seconds. Imagine if they wern't that experianced with LSD. You would think you were dying. Being scared to death could become a real possibility.
-------------------- Some rise Some fall Some climb To get to Terrapin!!!
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chinacat72
eyes of theworld


Registered: 11/14/02
Posts: 3,626
Loc: Terrapin Station
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Re: The [Re: OLIO] 1
#1735061 - 07/21/03 01:38 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Just for clarification, most of these half assed experimets were with the Jesus blotter in '94 I believe. Midwest tour.
Ahh memorys. Now that was a batch of blotter that we can all be proud of. Good and potent like its supposed to be.
-------------------- Some rise Some fall Some climb To get to Terrapin!!!
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