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Offlinecupid
Trust noone

Registered: 03/23/03
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Re: Multi Substrate Test [Re: Anno]
    #1737670 - 07/22/03 10:00 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

i really like blackouts idea of performing a cost benefit analysis on the final results, perhaps someone who understands this methodology can interpret the results for the rest of us to provide a basic cost effectiveness chart that we could perhaps turn into the FAQ of all FAQ's


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InvisibleAlien
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Post deleted by Administrator [Re: Anno]
    #1737966 - 07/22/03 01:03 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)



--------------------
-Alien :cool:

Alien Substrate Instructional:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KG82xLzrNg8


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Invisiblehoushroom
shroom cowboy

Registered: 05/07/03
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Re: Multi Substrate Test [Re: cupid]
    #1738184 - 07/22/03 02:27 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

think of it as how much you pay per mg of psilocin or psilocybin. but what does it matter, you're growing for a hobby, right?!


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InvisibleBrainFarmer
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Registered: 03/06/03
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Re: Multi Substrate Test [Re: Anno]
    #1738284 - 07/22/03 03:00 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

I added 3 more substrates to the experiment today: quinoa, rye grass seed and spelt.





if you're still down for more substrates, try kamut

http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/proceedings1999/v4-182.html

my sister's parrot really likes this stuff. thanks for taking the time to do an EXCELLENT experiment.



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Gate Gate Paragate Parasamgate Bodhisvah

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Edited by BrainFarmer (07/23/03 12:28 AM)


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Multi Substrate Test [Re: BrainFarmer]
    #1738709 - 07/22/03 05:41 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

but what does it matter, you're growing for a hobby, right?!

For some of us, it is the science of growing that is the hobby...


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Just another spore in the wind.


Edited by Seuss (07/22/03 05:42 PM)


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Anonymous

Re: Multi Substrate Test [Re: Anno]
    #1739310 - 07/22/03 08:59 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Amazing!!

How do you find the time?

:smile: :shocked: :cool: 


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OfflineDOBOS
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Re: Multi Substrate Test [Re: Anno]
    #1739879 - 07/22/03 11:54 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

this is a very good and nicely done experiment, and thank you for sharing good friend


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Multi Substrate Test [Re: Alien]
    #1740251 - 07/23/03 02:42 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Today?s progress:



The catfood jars were taken out of the competition after nearly 1 week without colonization.

The brf, birdseed and potato jar are pretty much on the same colonization level, also straw is quite colonized, although the mycelium is very thin compared to grains.
The dung jar is also colonizing, but the mycelium is nearly invisible.


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Anonymous

Re: Multi Substrate Test [Re: Anno]
    #1740266 - 07/23/03 02:50 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

:thumbup:
The results I await will be invaluable!


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OfflineJackal
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Re: Multi Substrate Test [Re: Anno]
    #1740345 - 07/23/03 04:04 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

The potato jar was prepared with grated potatoes and around 20% moist vermiculite by volume.




Hmmm, spuds look good. Did you peel & grate or did the peel go in as well?


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InvisibleBrainFarmer
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Re: Multi Substrate Test [Re: BrainFarmer]
    #1740347 - 07/23/03 04:05 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I added 3 more substrates to the experiment today: quinoa, rye grass seed and spelt.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



if you're still down for more substrates, try kamut





The complete nutritional analysis of kamut brand grain substantiates that it is higher in energy than other wheats. Compared to common wheat, it is higher in eight of nine minerals, such as magnesium and zinc. It has been found to contain much more of the natural antioxidant selenium and is 30% higher in the similarly important vitamin E. The grain also contains up to 65% more amino acids and boasts more lipids and fatty acids. The most striking superiority of kamut brand wheat is found in its protein level, up to 40% higher than the national average for wheat. Because of its higher percentage of lipids, which produce more energy in the body than carbohydrates, kamut brand wheat can be described as a "high energy grain."

here's another link illustrating why you might want to include my my pet grain...

full nutritional analysis of kamut alongside that of commercial wheat

not trying to be pushy, Anno, but you got me drooling for data!  :grin:

peace,
-BF 


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Gate Gate Paragate Parasamgate Bodhisvah

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Invisiblemycophreak
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Re: Multi Substrate Test [Re: Anno]
    #1740441 - 07/23/03 06:40 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

You are putting alot of energy in this project but comparisions of substrates have been done lots of times already. Rye (Beug&Bigwood) and brown rice (Gartz) came out as winners.

In my observation the cultivation technique (moment of harvesting, temperature) is much more important than the substrate. And of course the used mushroom.

At this moment my hypothesis is that the potency is highest in mushrooms where the psilocybin-degrading enzymes have not done much of their work yet. Which is the case in young mushrooms and especially at low temperatures. I bet you get the highest potency in mushrooms which are grown at the lowest acceptable temperature (15-18 centigrade) on the substrate which is rye or rice (rice for strains which were distributed by PF and not adapted to something else).

Yachaj



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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Multi Substrate Test [Re: mycophreak] * 1
    #1740453 - 07/23/03 06:53 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

>comparisons of substrates have been done lots of times already. Rye
>(Beug&Bigwood) and brown rice (Gartz) came out as winners.

Can you point me to those research papers?


I know of a document by Beug & Bigwood where they have grown P. cubensis on rye , and ONLY on rye. It?s only natural that rye came out as the winner.
http://jeremybigwood.net/JBsPUBS/JBScientific/VariationOfPsi/


And I know of a document by Gartz where he grew P. cubensis on dung+rice and this was AGAIN the only substrate he used.
http://www.psilocybe.org/Wissenschaft/aspects01.htm



>In my observation the cultivation technique (moment of harvesting, temperature)
> is much more important than the substrate.

This will be the same for all substrates.


>And of course the used mushroom.

Same isolate of P. cubensis for all substrates.


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: Multi Substrate Test [Re: Anno]
    #1740529 - 07/23/03 08:28 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I dont remember any study by Gartz that indicated that Brown Rice flour had a higher precursor content than any other substrate type - infact id be very doubtful as its precursor content is low as the previous post that anno posted to indicates. Besides Ive read studies by Gartz that describe ps.cyanescens from the US and Europe as different species, when i know that this isnt his correct opinion, just poor english.
Id have to utterly disagree with Mycophreak's statement regarding environmental factors having a more significant role than substrate on potency. All my experience disagrees with this statement. And if you read Gartz you will find that his studies do indicate a profound effect on alkaloid content with variations of precursors in substrates - and certainly dont state that BRF is a more potent substrate to my mind.
Im glad you have to time to put this to rest Anno, but PLEASE include straight millet - as well as finch seed mixes.
About two years ago it was commonly accepted that substrate had an effect and I was told by atleast 20 respected people (and im guessing that they would have been Major Millet, Hongus, Dimitri, Uma Guma, Forty Ounces, Club 99, Workman, Roadkill, and others that i cannot remember and some of these may be incorrect) that millet above all others produced bigger yields, bigger meatier mushrooms and more potent cubies. As Gartz studies indicate a positive effect on potency with more precursors, and because Starter in the previous post demonstrated Millet had a much higher precursor content, Im positive it does. If you dont believe try it.
Its important to get the nutrient content the same for each study to be acccurate (ofcourse).
Good luck Anno and im glad you have the time to pursue this one. Ill be surprised if you dont notice significant differences. Mark my words and all that :smile:


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Multi Substrate Test [Re: mycophreak] * 1
    #1740874 - 07/23/03 12:59 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

You are putting alot of energy in this project but comparisions of substrates have been done lots of times already.

Science without independent verification is not science.  I have seen nothing except net gossip relating substrate to alkaloid concentrations.  Perhaps your sources are better than mine.  :smile:


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OfflineThE_JafF
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Re: Multi Substrate Test [Re: Seuss]
    #1741164 - 07/23/03 02:52 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah Anno, mycophreak is right, this isn't science, better call the whole thing off as no one is obviously interested in YOUR results.. And of course since comparisions of different substrates have been done lots of times already, I am sure mycrophreak will be posting those sources for us 8^)

Best to let this one alone.. I mean.. you aren't even accounting for which phase of the moon you started these jars in so what could possibly be learned. Best to not even leave the house in the morning. People have already done that. There is nothing to see here.. What you saw was the planet Venus.



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Invisibledeanofmean
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Registered: 12/07/02
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Re: Multi Substrate Test [Re: ThE_JafF]
    #1741239 - 07/23/03 03:12 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

:lol:  LMFAO  :nut: 


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Invisiblehoushroom
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Registered: 05/07/03
Posts: 678
Loc: space city
Re: Multi Substrate Test [Re: deanofmean]
    #1741577 - 07/23/03 04:26 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

This is a science because as long as all conditions but one *remain the same* as controls then the variable (substrate) is tested.  You can talk all you want about the effects of substrates on potency, but getting actual numbers (such as percentages of active content in the tissue) is what we're interested in.  Even an experienced shroomer couldn't judge this effectively, or enough to be considered scientific. 

*however, this does not mean that if mushroom john told me i'd trip balls on a certain shroom i wouldn't believe him* :smile:


Edited by houshroom (07/23/03 04:28 PM)


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Offlinecupid
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Registered: 03/23/03
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Re: Multi Substrate Test [Re: houshroom]
    #1744890 - 07/24/03 04:13 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Here is my idea spelled out more basically, as of now is that if you supplement your substrate with the aforementioned product it will yield faster stronger longer growing substrate. The study I propose (if you understand what HYDROPONICS) is at all is to use a nutrient devoid substrate like marbels or gravel or whatever is cheap and add only water and chemicals to this substrate and grow shrooms for an indefenite length of time, because when ever neutrients runs low you would just add more liquid food and the myc would produce OVER AND OVER, also how could it become infected if there is no solid matter for competing organisms to take hold on and the LIQUID could have a antibiotic in it h2o2 for example. All in all i think my mix is getting pretty close because if i add it to a dying substrate it grows like MAGIC but i cant quite get it to go 100% HYDROPONIC with just water and the mix yet but again im getting close.


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Invisiblehoushroom
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Re: Multi Substrate Test [Re: Seuss]
    #1744942 - 07/24/03 04:32 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I meant about the cost....not the results :smile:  You don't grow to sell do you? 


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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Mushroom Cultivation >> Mushroom Cultivation Archive >> Substrates

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