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OfflineDeadPhan
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After boils drain and shake, and filling jars, can I wait till next morning before PC'ing?
    #17312412 - 11/30/12 10:56 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Got a lil behind.  Wondering after boiling, draining, steam drying, and filling jars, how long can. I wait after to PC them?


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InvisibleDestitute
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Re: After boils drain and shake, and filling jars, can I wait till next morning before PC'ing? [Re: DeadPhan]
    #17312423 - 11/30/12 10:59 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Not long you want to pc ASAP but less than 24 hours in the fridge shouldbe fine


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OfflineTrippy_Smurf
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Re: After boils drain and shake, and filling jars, can I wait till next morning before PC'ing? [Re: Destitute]
    #17312434 - 11/30/12 11:02 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

in a perfect world, you should PC them right after bottling.  I do most of my work between 8-5, so dry rye->PC'd jars is usually a three day project for me.


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OfflineDeadPhan
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Re: After boils drain and shake, and filling jars, can I wait till next morning before PC'ing? [Re: Trippy_Smurf]
    #17312491 - 11/30/12 11:19 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Thank goodness!  I got in over my head this time.  :lol:


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Big Gulps!  Alright!  Well,  See ya later!
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OfflineTheApprentice
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Re: After boils drain and shake, and filling jars, can I wait till next morning before PC'ing? [Re: Trippy_Smurf] * 1
    #17312514 - 11/30/12 11:26 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Trippy_Smurf said:
in a perfect world, you should PC them right after bottling.  I do most of my work between 8-5, so dry rye->PC'd jars is usually a three day project for me.



:whatshesaid:

but people don't get it.  the 24 hour soak...and then workin a 9-5.  and tryin to pc 30 jars... before work the next morning...

timers, alarm clocks set for 3 hour intervals, sleeplees nights watching adult swim on the couch... listening to the pc rock


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InvisibleMyco_Militia
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Re: After boils drain and shake, and filling jars, can I wait till next morning before PC'ing? [Re: TheApprentice]
    #17312539 - 11/30/12 11:35 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Can a trusted cultivator comment?  Because I would believe even more than a day, as much as a few would be okay.

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OfflineCysma
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Re: After boils drain and shake, and filling jars, can I wait till next morning before PC'ing? [Re: Myco_Militia]
    #17312556 - 11/30/12 11:42 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Myco_Militia said:
Can a trusted cultivator comment?  Because I would believe even more than a day, as much as a few would be okay.




I don't believe so.  I'm certainly not a trusted cultivator, but I've done exactly this, and after about 36 hours of letting them sit in the jars after boiling and drying, they smelled VERY sour.

I'm fairly certain (although not 100%) that the hydration of the grains coupled with the starch from boiling and germinated endospores, they go south rather quickly.

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OfflineTrippy_Smurf
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Re: After boils drain and shake, and filling jars, can I wait till next morning before PC'ing? [Re: Myco_Militia]
    #17312565 - 11/30/12 11:44 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Once they're soaked and boiled, they're idea breading grounds for all kinds of contaminants.  All that crap will be killed by the PC, but bacteria can start to break down the grains over time.  You could probably put it off a few days, but if you shouldn't plan it that way.


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Invisiblethe_damn


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Re: After boils drain and shake, and filling jars, can I wait till next morning before PC'ing? [Re: Trippy_Smurf]
    #17312629 - 12/01/12 12:00 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

You need to sterilize (PC) the grains pretty quickly after you hydrate them.  Waiting until the next day (or longer) means a 90 minute pressure cook probably won't kill whatever has started growing on them.  I speak from experience; If you can't PC all of the grains you want to prep that day, then split your grain prep into two separate batches so your shit doesn't spoil/contaminate (because it likely will).


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OfflineDeadPhan
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Re: After boils drain and shake, and filling jars, can I wait till next morning before PC'ing? [Re: the_damn]
    #17312639 - 12/01/12 12:03 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I'm likely gonna have 24 quarts that will have to wait till morning/ early afternoon.  :shrug:  should I put them in the fridge at best then?


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Big Gulps!  Alright!  Well,  See ya later!
And if i claim to be a wise man, well, it surely means that i dont know!

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Invisiblethe_damn


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Re: After boils drain and shake, and filling jars, can I wait till next morning before PC'ing? [Re: DeadPhan]
    #17312657 - 12/01/12 12:08 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

You should try putting them in the fridge and/or doing anything else you can do to keep them from going bad.  You'll just have to PC them tomorrow and then figure out later on if it worked or not.  My guess is that they will go bad (because I have had similar experiences) but if they don't go bad then, hey, do what works for you.


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OfflineDeadPhan
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Re: After boils drain and shake, and filling jars, can I wait till next morning before PC'ing? [Re: the_damn]
    #17316080 - 12/01/12 05:25 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I had 14 quarts from last night I put in bout an hour ago.  Would it help my chances if I pc'd longer say 120 mins?


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Big Gulps!  Alright!  Well,  See ya later!
And if i claim to be a wise man, well, it surely means that i dont know!

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Offlineshroom_bee
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Re: After boils drain and shake, and filling jars, can I wait till next morning before PC'ing? [Re: DeadPhan]
    #17316191 - 12/01/12 05:41 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

DeadPhan said:
Got a lil behind.  Wondering after boiling, draining, steam drying, and filling jars, how long can. I wait after to PC them?




I can spend a couple of days building corn or rye jars, PCing them, waiting, unloading, and doing it again.  To start off with I usually boil about 20+ jars worth of grain. Basically as many lids as I have ready is how much I boil for.

But I can only PC 8 or 10 at a time (2 PCs at a time on stove, either 2 x 4 jars (older ones) or 4 jars in 1 and 6 in another (newer one).  Either way I always end up with too many jars, more than I can do in a single day with a couple of runs, or I get distracted and can only do 1 run before I run out of time. Sometimes I have a large ziploc bag of filled corn that was boiled, and I have to wait to layout some jars before they get freed up.

I have kept both jars and bags of boiled corn in the fridge for over 2 weeks.  I sniff and still just smell the sweet corn. I've used them with no problem, and the growth rate is indistinguishable from the "fresh" ones.  Also, I'll PC a bunch of them for a couple of weeks to build an inventory, then noc them all up in 1 session.  Since the overhead of my sterile prep is pretty high, I want to do as many jars as possible at that time frame. No issues with "older" sterilized jars either.

I've even done this with "cow corn" (that is some UGLY grain). It's been very good to (and cheap for ) me.

Note:  I always PC at LEAST 2 hours. The older PCs are crap, probably don't build to more than 12 PSI, no way of knowing, no gauge, just the weight.  The newer one is an AA Sterilizer and goes to 25 PSI (red zone), but I keep at between 14-18 PSI.  I do 2 hours on both, and haven't got contams on either in many runs.

Edited by shroom_bee (12/01/12 05:54 PM)

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Offlinechucklehead
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Re: After boils drain and shake, and filling jars, can I wait till next morning before PC'ing? [Re: DeadPhan]
    #17316291 - 12/01/12 05:58 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I too work 8-5 and I feel your pain.

With practice and planning you can go from zero to cooked grains by midnight.  I'm talking about 14-20 jars.  That's two pressure cookers full depending on the type of cookers you have.

One hour warm soak is enough.  You will get more burst kernels after the boil but anything under 20% is usually fine.  The consequence of this is tougher to break up jars.  Yes your risk of contamination goes up by a little but not by so much it isn't worth cutting this particular corner.  Some say no soak.  I disagree with that.  You end up with way too many burst kernels.  I almost always do a one hour soak an I get 5% burst kernels or less.  Also adding a little gypsum to the mix helps keep the jars from becoming difficult to break up.

There have been many nights that I have gotten started late or interupted and just couldn't stay up with the cookers because I had work in the morning.  So I prep the jars and have them sitting in the cookers ready to go.  So when I come home the next day I flip them on.  For me it hasn't been an issue yet.  I don't think I'd go more than a day, but I never have so who knows. 

I may not be a trusted cultivator but I've done several hundred cycles.  I'm not even sure I know how many now.  Let's just say I've done this enough times to know you can pretty safely let them sit over night. 

Good Luck!
C.H.

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OfflineDeadPhan
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Re: After boils drain and shake, and filling jars, can I wait till next morning before PC'ing? [Re: chucklehead]
    #17316315 - 12/01/12 06:04 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

You mean you only soak the grains from dry for one hour before boil?  I thought recommendation was between 12 and 24?  I usually do around 20 so far.  But your saying you only do one hour?


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Big Gulps!  Alright!  Well,  See ya later!
And if i claim to be a wise man, well, it surely means that i dont know!

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Offlineshroom_bee
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Re: After boils drain and shake, and filling jars, can I wait till next morning before PC'ing? [Re: the_damn]
    #17316352 - 12/01/12 06:11 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

the_damn said:
You need to sterilize (PC) the grains pretty quickly after you hydrate them.  Waiting until the next day (or longer) means a 90 minute pressure cook probably won't kill whatever has started growing on them.  I speak from experience; If you can't PC all of the grains you want to prep that day, then split your grain prep into two separate batches so your shit doesn't spoil/contaminate (because it likely will).




I disagree, obviously (see other post), but I wanted to respond to this directly.

Do you feel 120 minutes would make a difference?

Sterilized is sterilized.  Yes, we know it really is a "range", and you always have something left in there that you want to beat, but what difference would it make if you sterilize active bacteria or other stuff?  It's gonna be there anyway, and soaking grains is SUPPOSED to germinate those tough endospores to it is easier to kill them in the PC. 

I'd rather let it sit and germinate as much as possible, than have it sit for less time and those spores are still possibly active.

I put jars in the fridge the moment they are filled if they are not going to be PCed immediately.

I can envision that the byproduct of the active growth of something could be toxic to myc, and therefor there will be a downside of serious growth, but fridge growth?  That would be some serious slow growth.

So, if it passes the sniff test (and I allow a bit of "off" to that, myc has a stronger stomach than me, but nothing that would make me recoil in horror), I'm pretty sure it makes no difference, at least in my 120 minute runs.

One more thing though.  While I've done this with both rye and corn, rye gets "mushy" as compared to corn (even cracked corn is more "solid" than rye), so that aspect may be more of a downside if you wait.  Shaking is a bitch when your rye is mushy, and the lack of airflow between the kernels can up your contam potential.  So yeah, a difference between corn and rye may be coming into play here as far as my successes VS other's failures in this area.

Edited by shroom_bee (12/01/12 06:16 PM)

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Offlineskippydude
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Re: After boils drain and shake, and filling jars, can I wait till next morning before PC'ing? [Re: chucklehead]
    #17316389 - 12/01/12 06:17 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

:popcorn:

I do 20-24.

Just ordered a flow hood and some cultures.

Tracking said they would arrive today.

So I threw some wheat berries in a gypsum/water soak.

Well the flow hood arrived:dancer: today and no cultures:facepalm3:

So I have been pondering this same question all day.

Do I wait the cultures or knock the grain up with something I already have.

Guess I will sleep on this one and figure it out after the grain is PCed tomorrow:shrug:

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InvisibleDestitute
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Re: After boils drain and shake, and filling jars, can I wait till next morning before PC'ing? [Re: DeadPhan]
    #17316433 - 12/01/12 06:24 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

DeadPhan said:
You mean you only soak the grains from dry for one hour before boil?  I thought recommendation was between 12 and 24?  I usually do around 20 so far.  But your saying you only do one hour?




I too have done away with soaking (wbs) longer than a few hours, the low simmer/boil should hydrate it enough


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: After boils drain and shake, and filling jars, can I wait till next morning before PC'ing? [Re: Destitute]
    #17316451 - 12/01/12 06:28 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Galactic_Smurf said:
Quote:

DeadPhan said:
You mean you only soak the grains from dry for one hour before boil?  I thought recommendation was between 12 and 24?  I usually do around 20 so far.  But your saying you only do one hour?




I too have done away with soaking (wbs) longer than a few hours, the low simmer/boil should hydrate it enough



I soak mine for 24hrs with no simmer/boil....:shrug:

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OfflineMontock
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Re: After boils drain and shake, and filling jars, can I wait till next morning before PC'ing? [Re: Destitute]
    #17316505 - 12/01/12 06:40 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Galactic_Smurf said:
Not long you want to pc ASAP but less than 24 hours in the fridge shouldbe fine



even out of the fridge they do ok, i wouldnt wait to much longer than 24 though, ime 3-5 days is all it takes for full blown trich to settle in after the boil dump if you dont pc it

i smoked to much drugz onetime, and in  a sleepy haze totally skipped pcing a batch of jars awhle ago, i g2g to them and, was totally dum founded for a couple hours how every single kernal got trich on all the jars from that batch all at the same time, its was pretty uniform and cool really, anyway, took 3-5 days or so before it set in


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