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OfflineSmokinErb
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Registered: 01/21/11
Posts: 193
Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
100% Contam rate. Need advice on filter material.
    #17200476 - 11/11/12 10:48 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Okay so a couple weeks ago, RR told me that tyvek envelopes are a "piss poor" filter material.  So I cut up a tyvek lab suit to use as a filter.

-PC'd jars for 2 hours @ 15 psi.

-Inoculated about 25 jars, had another 10 that I hadn't inoculated yet.  100% contam rate. 


I PC'd 'em again yesterday to kill everything and just disposed of them today.  I'll be preparing more jars soon, and need a material that actually works.  I'll probably go back to the envelopes for now, simply because I am on a budget and for the most part they've worked well for me.

Now, I know there are different grades of Tyvek, and that the envelope grade maybe "piss poor" but I don't know what makes a good quality tyvek for this hobby.  Would something like this be better?  http://menards.com/main/p-1868530-c-5824.htm

Any suggestions are welcome.  Except for synthetic disks.  $15 for a dozen isn't going to cut it until I run into some kind of money (I have roughly 200 jars)

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OfflineVire
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Registered: 08/14/12
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Re: 100% Contam rate. Need advice on filter material. [Re: SmokinErb]
    #17200497 - 11/11/12 10:55 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Maybe double or even triple layer your Tyvek?

There are a lot of things that could cause contamination other than your filter media.

Can you tell us a bit more about your sterilizing procedures?

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Invisibletoxetel
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Registered: 08/13/12
Posts: 708
Re: 100% Contam rate. Need advice on filter material. [Re: SmokinErb]
    #17200501 - 11/11/12 10:56 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Lab suit tyvek isn't a perfect filter, but you should be able to make it work with a more than 0% success rate. Recall that the original PF Tek doesn't even call for a filter beyond the dry verm layer. I would look at the rest of your process. Your sterile technique may need some work. Or the jars might need a better location to colonize. Or your inoculant may be contaminated.

Where did the contamination start in each jar? Are these BRF jars or grain jars? What kind of contam was it?

Synthetic filter discs are, in RR's words, the gold standard. If you buy large discs and cut small circles out of them to use to cover holes drilled in lids you can use one SFD for something like 8 lids.

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InvisibleFunnyFungi
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Registered: 10/09/12
Posts: 799
Re: 100% Contam rate. Need advice on filter material. [Re: Vire]
    #17200506 - 11/11/12 10:58 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

are you using grain?

If so, are you prepping it correctly?

And for filters, i use a felt sheet bought at walmart.

Trace as many quarter sized sections you need to cover your GE hole on both sides.

30 jars= 60 quarter sized pieces of felt.


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OfflineTheApprentice
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Registered: 09/25/11
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Re: 100% Contam rate. Need advice on filter material. [Re: toxetel]
    #17200510 - 11/11/12 10:58 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

where did u get your syringe?


--------------------


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: 100% Contam rate. Need advice on filter material. [Re: SmokinErb]
    #17200552 - 11/11/12 11:08 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Okay so a couple weeks ago, RR told me that tyvek envelopes are a "piss poor" filter material.  So I cut up a tyvek lab suit to use as a filter.


:laugh:

Tyvek has always performed well for me. If you have un-inoculated jars that went bad it's either the filter or the grain prep. Tell us how you prepared the grain prior to PCing and how you fixed the filters.


--------------------
rahz

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Offlineshroom_bee
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Registered: 06/05/11
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Re: 100% Contam rate. Need advice on filter material. [Re: SmokinErb]
    #17200556 - 11/11/12 11:09 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I've never contamed a jar that I can attribute via lid.

I used to use tyvek rubber banded when I ran out of rings in the old evil PF Tek days. I since then RTV glued tyvek patches (1/4 of a dime, lots of rtv), and still use those lids (2+ years old).

And I used both postal and moon suit tyvek.  No issues with either.

I've since moved to filter disks, but, against RR's advice (yes, I TRY to follow it, but hey, I got a bunch of lids already made, and they work), I cut them up and glue a 1/4 dime size piece in.

This was done before I read that it severely limits the GE since you don't get the whole surface/side area, even if you only have a little hole on one side.  Also, you need to wash them, and NEVER use them when damp, so I put them in the dehydrator before filling jars and using them.

On the other hand, my typical jar time for rye or corn is 10 days, so I really don't think it affects me.

Not 1 contam due to noc up or shake out in the open for 10 days or so. A LOT of jars.

So, I'd REALLY look to something other than the tyvek for your issue.

Edited by shroom_bee (11/11/12 11:15 AM)

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InvisiblePinkus_Trip
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Registered: 02/23/11
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Re: 100% Contam rate. Need advice on filter material. [Re: SmokinErb]
    #17200597 - 11/11/12 11:21 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I have had the same thing happen with the tyvek filter. I got 10 jars of green mold on my popcorn and wbs but the same syringes worked 100% on my brf is polyfill any better than tyvek?


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OfflineSmokinErb
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Registered: 01/21/11
Posts: 193
Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
Re: 100% Contam rate. Need advice on filter material. [Re: shroom_bee]
    #17200607 - 11/11/12 11:23 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Whoa, lots of replies.  Okay let me see how much I can clear up here.

These are milo grain jars.  I prepare them by soaking for 24 hours, and then steeping to bring the moisture content to the proper level.  Drain and spread over a screen until dry enough to jar.  Usually an hour or two.

I then PC for 2 hours at 15 psi. 

All of these jars were done G2G in my lab (PVC frame wrapped in plastic, HEPA intake).  I average about 5-10% contam rate doing g2g in open air in my lab.  The other jars were never inoculated, and just sat around in the incubation room. 

On inoculated jars, contam appeared in various places of the grains, as they were shaken. 

On uninoculated jars, all of the contam growth begins at the very top of the grains.  This is why I'm led to believe that it was my filter.

Contam is cobweb/trich and some brown/yellow mold.  Starts with a B, can't quite recall the name. At the moment.

Didn't use a syringe for these, but the syringe I used to inoculate the jars I did g2g with I made myself.  Cloned a PE mushroom in LC, and tested the LC on "Agar" (BRF + water).

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Offlinetotal
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Re: 100% Contam rate. Need advice on filter material. [Re: SmokinErb]
    #17200614 - 11/11/12 11:24 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

<--- Read under my name...
Tyvek envelopes ftw...

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OfflineSmokinErb
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Registered: 01/21/11
Posts: 193
Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
Re: 100% Contam rate. Need advice on filter material. [Re: SmokinErb]
    #17200616 - 11/11/12 11:25 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Okay.  So I wanted to confirm that my coveralls were good material.

They're not even tyvek.  It's "Tygard" material, I assumed it was an "off brand" tyvek.  I was wrong. 

I'm still wondering though, 100% contam rate?  Well, 59/60 jars contaminated.  I have ONE uninoculated jar that hasn't contaminated yet.

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OfflineSmokinErb
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Registered: 01/21/11
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Re: 100% Contam rate. Need advice on filter material. [Re: SmokinErb]
    #17200631 - 11/11/12 11:27 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)



For reference, do not use these coveralls as filter material.  They can be found at Mendards, and are not worth shit.

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InvisiblePinkus_Trip
Male


Registered: 02/23/11
Posts: 492
Re: 100% Contam rate. Need advice on filter material. [Re: SmokinErb]
    #17200668 - 11/11/12 11:37 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

SmokinErb said:


For reference, do not use these coveralls as filter material.  They can be found at Mendards, and are not worth shit.




lol thats the same one i used i got it at wal-mart I was thanking it was the same thing


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OfflineSmokinErb
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Registered: 01/21/11
Posts: 193
Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
Re: 100% Contam rate. Need advice on filter material. [Re: Pinkus_Trip]
    #17200679 - 11/11/12 11:40 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Did you have god awful contam rates with it?  Be great to hear from someone else that they had the same problem.  Would at least eliminate that its my sterile procedure as a cause.

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InvisiblePinkus_Trip
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Registered: 02/23/11
Posts: 492
Re: 100% Contam rate. Need advice on filter material. [Re: Pinkus_Trip]
    #17200687 - 11/11/12 11:42 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Pinkus_Trip said:
I have had the same thing happen with the tyvek filter. I got 10 jars of green mold on my popcorn and wbs but the same syringes worked 100% on my brf is polyfill any better than tyvek?





Yep all 10 jars= green mold


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InvisibleFischer
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Registered: 06/03/10
Posts: 565
Loc: Downunder
Re: 100% Contam rate. Need advice on filter material. [Re: Pinkus_Trip]
    #17301423 - 11/29/12 05:15 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Just buy some PTFE membrane filters... how's $35 per 100 discs sound?

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/47mm-PTFE-Membrane-Disc-Filters/291286021.html

Think of the time/substrate cost of contam'd jars and ask if you find it worth it to at least try it on some of your jars and see if it's the contamination vector you're having trouble with?

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: 100% Contam rate. Need advice on filter material. [Re: Fischer]
    #17301500 - 11/29/12 06:09 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Those aren't suitable.  They react with alcohol and allow water/fluids to pass.  We use thicker filters for air.  Just grab synthetic filter disks.  I've never paid over $40 per 100.
RR


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Offlinec0ri
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Re: 100% Contam rate. Need advice on filter material. [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #17301632 - 11/29/12 07:07 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I am using those exact coveralls for some g2g jars of Hautala currently and have a 0% contam rate. Seem to work fine for me. Not to mention they're colonizing quicker than my jars of maztapec that I did the same day, but used SFD's with those.

40$ for 100 discs is a great price! Where do you buy yours at RR? I paid around 40$ for 20 SFD's through myco supply, but was gouged on shipping at like 19.50$.

Edited by c0ri (11/29/12 07:10 AM)

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InvisibleFrankHorrigan
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Registered: 01/04/11
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Re: 100% Contam rate. Need advice on filter material. [Re: c0ri]
    #17301729 - 11/29/12 07:42 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Tygard is not tyvek.

I get my SFDs from the mad season.
The 125mm are $1.75 each which is pricey as hell for each jar but I can cut 16 circles from each...comes to 11 cents per lid for a perfect sized filter.


--------------------

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OfflineTheApprentice
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Re: 100% Contam rate. Need advice on filter material. [Re: FrankHorrigan]
    #17301830 - 11/29/12 08:13 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

FrankHorrigan said:
Tygard is not tyvek.

I get my SFDs from the mad season.
The 125mm are $1.75 each which is pricey as hell for each jar but I can cut 16 circles from each...comes to 11 cents per lid for a perfect sized filter.



:like:

ive been considering moving to the plastic lids.  i literally only do g2g's...  can u find locally, or just online?  my mailbox has issues


--------------------


RR Videos -Best $9 Ever Spent *
No Pour AGAR Tek Easy COIR Trays! *
Pink Oysters on Newspaper TEK

"Yeah?  Well, DRACULA called... and he said he's coming over tonight, and I said OK!" :mastershake:

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