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Drunk3n Duck
Sir trips-a-lot


Registered: 10/04/11
Posts: 306
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
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upgrading the martha with a couple of questions
#17294404 - 11/27/12 11:13 PM (12 years, 1 month ago) |
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well I have a nice little martha i made out of clear vinyl sewn together around placed on a 5 tier commercial grade shelving unit. for humidity i have a vicks coolmist V4500 that runs 24/7 placed inside the green house on the bottom shelf. there is also a hole cut that the intake for the coolmist slightly sticks out of to pull air into the martha.

 In use 
 for fae i have cut holes on both left and right sides at the top and bottom of the green house. due to the martha being in a corner i dont believe that it is getting enough fae even with the coolmist moving the air inside somewhat. so i was planning on mounting 2 computer fans rated at 110cfm on the top pulling air from inside out along with pulling the humid air through the martha. the dimentions of the whole thing is 76x36x16, which if my math is correct comes down to needing at least 10,368cf exchanged per hour in order to achieve at least 3 full exchanges of fresh air in an hour. does this sound about right?
anyways my main questions are: 1. as long as humidity levels are maintained can u have too much FAE, or is it better to just stay around 2-3 exchanges per hour? or is FAE a more the merrier type thing?
2. is it better to provide the FAE in bursts as opposed to providing FAE continuously? 15off 15on, or 30on 30off, or just on 24/7 (i would imagine burst to allow for condensation to form on cakes/trays then rapid evaporation helping to trigger pinning)
3. And lastly of coarse if anyone is willing to double check my math that would be amazing and much appreciated lol
Thanks!
-------------------- Everything i post is part of a online role-playing fantasy and is entirely untrue. The pictures i post have all been found online.
  <-- MY BABY!
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Exiledmonkies
Peaceful Warrior



Registered: 12/04/11
Posts: 514
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Re: upgrading the martha with a couple of questions [Re: Drunk3n Duck]
#17295198 - 11/28/12 02:34 AM (12 years, 1 month ago) |
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What are all your current environment conditions? Temp? RH?
Is money an issue for upgrades on your setup?
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Drunk3n Duck
Sir trips-a-lot


Registered: 10/04/11
Posts: 306
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
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Re: upgrading the martha with a couple of questions [Re: Exiledmonkies]
#17296292 - 11/28/12 10:45 AM (12 years, 1 month ago) |
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I use a space heater that doesn't allow the room to drop below 75 and I have a ac unit inside to keep temps down if it starts getting warm but normally I try and keep it ~73-80 and the humidity according to my electronic hygrometer says 99% but I just bought some nice analog hygrometers from a local cigar shop a couple of days ago, just haven't gotten around to putting them into the Martha. Money is an issue to some extent because I'm trying to save up for a flow hood, and I am some what of a cheap ass lol so if I can save money and successfully achieve proper fae that would be the best. But I would love to have one of those sweet ass fully automated thermostats that controll humidity and temp. Lol but who wouldn't right?
-------------------- Everything i post is part of a online role-playing fantasy and is entirely untrue. The pictures i post have all been found online.
  <-- MY BABY!
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Drunk3n Duck
Sir trips-a-lot


Registered: 10/04/11
Posts: 306
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
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Re: upgrading the martha with a couple of questions [Re: Drunk3n Duck]
#17313875 - 12/01/12 09:34 AM (12 years, 1 month ago) |
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*bump sry but i really could use some advice here, mainly on the 2nd question. Thanks.
-------------------- Everything i post is part of a online role-playing fantasy and is entirely untrue. The pictures i post have all been found online.
  <-- MY BABY!
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ArmFromTheAbyss
Old Hand

Registered: 10/09/02
Posts: 1,368
Loc: Down here in Babylon
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Re: upgrading the martha with a couple of questions [Re: Drunk3n Duck]
#17313943 - 12/01/12 09:53 AM (12 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Drunk3n Duck said: 2. is it better to provide the FAE in bursts as opposed to providing FAE continuously? 15off 15on, or 30on 30off, or just on 24/7 (i would imagine burst to allow for condensation to form on cakes/trays then rapid evaporation helping to trigger pinning)
Good question. This topic should be discussed more on the Shroomery.
I say that if you can maintain constant humidity that continuous FAE is optimal. Think about the environmental conditions that native P. cubensis is subjected to: basically a humid cow field in Florida. There is always constant fresh air and humidity where P. cubensis is found naturally. That's what we want to re-create.
You should build a ventilation system that pumps fresh humid air into your greenhouse constantly to produce positive pressure. You could mix dry air and your humidifier output in a plenum and then pump it into the greenhouse. Stale air can flow out the holes.
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FunnyLight
Nom NOm NOM



Registered: 09/12/11
Posts: 1,124
Loc: fuckin Mars man
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
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Re: upgrading the martha with a couple of questions [Re: ArmFromTheAbyss]
#17314134 - 12/01/12 10:44 AM (12 years, 1 month ago) |
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Something to be aware of with Martha's and FAE is your humidity sensor's response time.
Lets say you fill a martha with a dense fog from an ultrasonic. This is at 99% RH. Your sensor registers it as 99% RH (something a digital sensor CANNOT do well mind you, at least not cheaply). Then your fans turn on and do a 3x exchange of FA. You can no longer see any fog, it doesn't feel very humid, but your sensor shows 98%. Hunky dory.
Later your pins abort, your cakes shrink rapidly and you're wondering WTF is going on. When in actuality your running down to 60% RH, or room's RH, and are at this RH for the majority of time until your sensor catches up and humidity gets turned back on, or you adjust timers based on the sensors feedback.
Be aware that it will take some time for the sensor's reading to catch up with the room's RH. I would think an analog meter would be more accurate, and quicker responding (I haven't played with one in person, but analog is ALWAYS better it's got infinity on it's side) Different sensors, are different so YOUR sensor may be accurately telling the story of your RH.
Also, is the coolmist you're running the impeller type or ultra sonic type? Whatever you're current setup is, it's producing results. Some better pics of the cakes could be helpful.
Looks like there is a lot of blueing, is that from harvest, or whats up with that? The fruits might be a little strechy, but that might be fixed with a nice light. Where's your light?
Are you getting multiple flushes, or are your cakes shrinking and drying out too rapidly??
-------------------- The most powerful drive through the ascent of man, is pleasure in his own skill.
J. Bronowski
Home of delicious "Psychedelic Nyotaimori".
Thanks Lemmingp for that.
 
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Drunk3n Duck
Sir trips-a-lot


Registered: 10/04/11
Posts: 306
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
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Re: upgrading the martha with a couple of questions [Re: FunnyLight]
#17324208 - 12/02/12 11:51 PM (12 years, 1 month ago) |
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what is a plenum lol
im aware of the time it takes for an accurate reading and i just bought some analog hygrometers from a local cigarshop as well. im going to calibrate them tomorrow and throw them into the green house hopefully to get some better readings. if i am pulling the air from the inside out using fans on the top of the martha with the humidifier on the bottom self then wouldnt they just pull the humid air throughout the martha as well is pull in fresh air from the holes on the bottom?(i was thinking about closing up the 2 holes towards the top) and if RH ends up being an issue i can always add to that im just trying to focus on controlling the FAE factor of the martha first, then once i achieve that ill do what needs to be done to meet the humidity needs. i have lots of things i could use for humidity so im not to worried and i could always buy something such as air pumps hydrotron or whatever those clay pebbles are, perlite, and 2 small ultrasonic foggers that i can combine with a air pump to provide humid air and fae the only issue is that the pump i have doesnt produce enough to cycle the air once within an hour :/
-------------------- Everything i post is part of a online role-playing fantasy and is entirely untrue. The pictures i post have all been found online.
  <-- MY BABY!
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FunnyLight
Nom NOm NOM



Registered: 09/12/11
Posts: 1,124
Loc: fuckin Mars man
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
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Re: upgrading the martha with a couple of questions [Re: Drunk3n Duck]
#17325320 - 12/03/12 07:42 AM (12 years, 1 month ago) |
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http://bit.ly/TByebc 
Why do you think you need to increase FAE over what your current situation is? It seems okay?
I'd pull air from the top out through the bottom. It'll be pretty hard to get the heavy humid air to flow upwards out the top IMO. I have just enough internal airflow that you can just feel it. You can see the air lightly swirl as it comes out the ultrasonic's input and flows downward through the greenhouse. I have 1 internal fan and no major holes or zippers unzipped. Of course my humidifier is an ultrasonic type, and it sits outside the greenhouse.
Think about a monotub, sometimes people can only open them up and fan them once a day and they do just fine. I would focus on humidity control first, then FAE personally. But my humidifier is outside the greenhouse, so it's a prime source of FAE.
Also, What kind of lighting do you have in there?
-------------------- The most powerful drive through the ascent of man, is pleasure in his own skill.
J. Bronowski
Home of delicious "Psychedelic Nyotaimori".
Thanks Lemmingp for that.
 
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Drunk3n Duck
Sir trips-a-lot


Registered: 10/04/11
Posts: 306
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
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Re: upgrading the martha with a couple of questions [Re: FunnyLight]
#17325754 - 12/03/12 09:59 AM (12 years, 1 month ago) |
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Im having a huge problem initiating a second flush with my PE trays and blocks. some of the trays the first pins formed in my pmp then as I finished my Martha I threw them in there. And they trays that were in the Martha the whole time did not pin as well as the others. The lights are 6300k led lights that came on a reel and I have zipped tied to the ceiling of my grow tent. They are also on a 12/12 timer and just 2 ~4ft strips illuminates the entire tent. O ok ya that plenum is what I was thinking of making with my ultrasonic foggers and air pump just like in this but I have 2 of these foggers and a Pump ratted for 7.8 liters per minute
-------------------- Everything i post is part of a online role-playing fantasy and is entirely untrue. The pictures i post have all been found online.
  <-- MY BABY!
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FunnyLight
Nom NOm NOM



Registered: 09/12/11
Posts: 1,124
Loc: fuckin Mars man
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
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Re: upgrading the martha with a couple of questions [Re: Drunk3n Duck]
#17328372 - 12/03/12 06:21 PM (12 years, 1 month ago) |
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Try a dunk with the cakes between flushes.
Martha's seem to be much more demanding of cakes moisture contents then other methods. Even if all the instruments say everything is good, your cakes are drying out quicker sitting on that shelf all alone then other methods.
This is something I've been working on since I set up my martha. Here's some quick notes that might be worthwhile - or might not 
- Cased Vs. Uncased in MY martha: Casing has had a consistent advantage over uncased. Cakes shrink less, better pinsets, more flushes.
- If you're GH isn't packed, get some ballast in there to pack it! Trays with perlite kept moist seem to help. I've also got a tray of water, but that's more of a catch can for the hose drip from the ultrasonic that needs to be remedied by new plumbing.
- I've noticed that covered trays/"mini mono" style layups seem to work very, very well in Martha's. Check out DocT's pics, I've seen others do this but none come to mind right off the top of my head.
- Keep up on misting
- Cubes don't need a lot of FAE, so experiment with that. Try no active FAE and let the "leaks" take care of it.
- Nice bright lighting: I've got CFL's w/ a reflector pointing into my GH, the boomers def. lean towards it.
- Don't let your humidifier run dry... Again... Like I did

-------------------- The most powerful drive through the ascent of man, is pleasure in his own skill.
J. Bronowski
Home of delicious "Psychedelic Nyotaimori".
Thanks Lemmingp for that.
 
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Drunk3n Duck
Sir trips-a-lot


Registered: 10/04/11
Posts: 306
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
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Re: upgrading the martha with a couple of questions [Re: FunnyLight]
#17341033 - 12/05/12 09:00 PM (12 years, 1 month ago) |
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ok thanks i need to start trying casing i tried it once on my first grow but never again since. i think im going to just build a bulk humidifier like agars or mycocurious or whatever his name is lol, since in the near future i plan on humidifying the entire tent that i have everything in currently just all a matter of getting ready and more knowledgeable than i currently am. and im aware that cubes arent as picky when in comes to the conditions they grow in but i also soon plan to start some pans and want to be sure i have everything perfect for them
-------------------- Everything i post is part of a online role-playing fantasy and is entirely untrue. The pictures i post have all been found online.
  <-- MY BABY!
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Exiledmonkies
Peaceful Warrior



Registered: 12/04/11
Posts: 514
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Re: upgrading the martha with a couple of questions [Re: Drunk3n Duck]
#17342318 - 12/06/12 01:30 AM (12 years, 1 month ago) |
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You could use a pc cooling fan(15bucks) inside the martha. -Waterproof the wires with some duct tape or liquid rubber. -Have it on the bottom shelf so it pushes the humid air up. -Have it on a cycle so it turns on when your ecofogger switches on but not every time or your rh is going to be to high and can cause the fan motor to burn out. You will need the rh to drop slightly for healthy primordia formation but not to far or it will cause problems with fruiting. -Once you balance the ecofogger and pc fan 'on' times. you will have a fully automated setup. No misting or fanning just watching them grow.
This is only a option and it will take a lot of trial and error.
Best of luck to you fella~
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Drunk3n Duck
Sir trips-a-lot


Registered: 10/04/11
Posts: 306
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
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Re: upgrading the martha with a couple of questions [Re: Exiledmonkies]
#17344079 - 12/06/12 12:16 PM (12 years, 1 month ago) |
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....where did u see that i had an eco fogger, i dont. currently i have a coolmist and i have been trying to figure out the easiest and most efficient way of creating forced FAE rather than depend on just holes.
-------------------- Everything i post is part of a online role-playing fantasy and is entirely untrue. The pictures i post have all been found online.
  <-- MY BABY!
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Exiledmonkies
Peaceful Warrior



Registered: 12/04/11
Posts: 514
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Re: upgrading the martha with a couple of questions [Re: Drunk3n Duck]
#17344234 - 12/06/12 12:52 PM (12 years, 1 month ago) |
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Oops misread one of your posts. You can use the pc fan for the same thing. Just rig it to a pvc pipe filled with polyfil and attach the exhaust end to the martha.
There are couple ways you can do it. You just have to remember that to much FAE in a small area will drop the RH, So use a smaller fan and if you're RH keeps dropping then pack the pipe with more poly till you get the amount desired.
If you want something a little less drastic, try two filtered aquarium air pumps rigged to the very top of the martha. If your martha isn't sealed properly its just going to push all your humidity out of the tent so be sure to check for that.
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Drunk3n Duck
Sir trips-a-lot


Registered: 10/04/11
Posts: 306
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
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Re: upgrading the martha with a couple of questions [Re: Exiledmonkies]
#17347927 - 12/07/12 12:21 AM (12 years, 1 month ago) |
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right now all i have is a 7.8 liter/min air pump right now so it wouldnt do too much but i think i might use it and make a mini humidifier using a small ultrasonic fogger and this air pump just to mess with while i build my sweet ass Red Bull Humidifier this thing is going to kick ass lol
-------------------- Everything i post is part of a online role-playing fantasy and is entirely untrue. The pictures i post have all been found online.
  <-- MY BABY!
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