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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Why can't women compete with men?
    #1729283 - 07/19/03 02:49 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

No, I am NOT talking about sports where men clearly have a physical speed and strength advantage, but about events such as chess, backgammon, poker in the mental realm; and pool and bowling in the physical realm. Sure there is the rare woman that can, but most women prefer to compete against other women in these and other similar events as they do not believe they can compete on an even keel with men (in general).

Do men, on average, have superior confidence, motor skills or hand-eye co-ordination? Is it cultural or genetic? Maybe women just don't care enough to take the time to study and practice or are not aggressive enough.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: Why can't women compete with men? [Re: Swami]
    #1729295 - 07/19/03 03:03 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Certainly I think women are more apt to play it safe. Men may win big, but they are more likely to take larger risks.

I think that our evolution has endowed us with the superior skills when it comes to area you outlined. Our hunting skills needed excellent motor skills, and strategy. So I do believe we have a significant genetic advantage.

Cultural influences also definately play a part. I think these have been gaining momentum in their breakdown though. I saw a statistic a couple of years back, that said on their current rate of improvment versus men's, women will meet or exceed men's performance in I believe it was 50 years.



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I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


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OfflineRhizoid
carbon unit
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Registered: 01/23/00
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Re: Why can't women compete with men? [Re: Swami]
    #1729306 - 07/19/03 03:15 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

I think it has to do with statistics and genetics. Men have only one X chromosome while women have two. This causes gene expression associated with the X chromosome to be more stable in women, and more varied in men. Color blindness and haemophilia for example, is much more common in men than in women.

But this also seems to affect some aspects of intelligence. IQ has a gaussian (bell curve) statistical distribution, and the tests have been calibrated so that the center of the curves coincide for men and women (at IQ 100). But the statistical spread is larger for men, so among the highest and lowest percentiles there will always be more men than women.

Evolution essentially uses men as guinea pigs, since men are more expendable than women when it comes to reproduction. This has both positive and negative aspects.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Why can't women compete with men? [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1729333 - 07/19/03 03:29 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Color blindness and haemophilia for example, is much more common in men than in women.

Clearly an advantage for the male gender in competition.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineRhizoid
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Re: Why can't women compete with men? [Re: Swami]
    #1729392 - 07/19/03 04:10 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Well, it's not the male gender as a group that wins competitions. It's just a few at the top. That's my whole point.


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OfflineSteevil
is cool

Registered: 01/21/03
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Re: Why can't women compete with men? [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1729450 - 07/19/03 04:43 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

A chemistry teacher of mine once told my class that out of 14 different areas that one study divided intelligence into, such as verbal, arithmetic, etc, women beat men in 13. The one that men excelled in was manipulation and handling of 3D objects, not just physically, but  in knowing which way to move or turn something to get to a desired result, like using a rubiks cube, for example.

I don't know if this is true, but he then demonstrated it by asking the whole class to work out how many different structures could be made using a chemical formula for an alcohol. The boys in the class, even some that were rather dim, all got to the right answer before any of the girls. The teacher's explanation was that the males could imagine the molecule twisting and rotating, and check whether it was actually a new structure or just one of the others twisted a little.

I'm not sure how relevant this actually is, but it came to mind when you listed games like chess, pool and bowling.

Of course it could just be general sexism. :smile: 


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All the days of his vow of separation no razor shall pass over his head. He shall be holy ... he shall let the locks of hair on his head grow long.


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OfflineMalachi
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Registered: 06/19/02
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Re: Why can't women compete with men? [Re: Steevil]
    #1729825 - 07/19/03 11:06 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

girls can be just as good (or better) at endurance sports like LD running. I read some article about how women in the military might make better trench soilders cause of body fat or something like that.... some storage or energy that males don't have.


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The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich


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InvisibleEdame
gone

Registered: 01/14/03
Posts: 1,270
Loc: outta here
Re: Why can't women compete with men? [Re: Swami]
    #1729905 - 07/19/03 12:38 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Maybe it's that men, by nature seem to be more competitive than women? I think that men are more prone to 'proving' themselves against other men, to see who is 'best' (Alpha male?).

It reminds me of an article I read in New Scientist a little while back:

Quote:

Boys compete 'for the sake of it'

09:30 25 August 02


Boys will compete just for the sake of it, but girls will not waste effort on competition unless it pays, a Canadian study has revealed.

Rosanne Roy from McGill University in Montreal and her colleagues got 40 groups of four boys or four girls, aged 5 to 6 or 9 to 10, to play two specially designed games.

In one, for instance, the children had to thread beads on a stick until it was full, taking the beads from either a common pot or another player. One set of rules meant that everyone would eventually win, so competition was pointless. Another set of rules allowed for only one winner, so competing made sense.

The girls spent more time watching the reactions of their competitors and responding to them.

"They would watch the facial expression of their opponent as they decided whether or not to take the bead. Sometimes they would decide not to," says Roy.

And the older girls wasted no effort on competition, except when it paid off. Boys, on the other hand, competed just for the sake of it, even if there was nothing to be gained. "It was way too much fun to take from others," Roy says.

The team's research was presented at the International Society for Human Ethology conference in Montreal.


Alison Motluk




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The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


Edited by Edame (07/19/03 12:39 PM)


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: Why can't women compete with men? [Re: Swami]
    #1730256 - 07/19/03 04:20 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

they CAN compete - they just have different distractions than we do in my opinion, and most of them could care less about chess and games of that sort


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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InvisibleShroomismM
Space Travellin
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Re: Why can't women compete with men? [Re: Swami]
    #1731274 - 07/20/03 12:38 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

It's generally because woman tend to have more focus in the right hemisphere of the brain, where 'creativity', 'feelings', and 'emotion' is strongest. Men tend to be left-brain dominated, where 'logic', 'rational thinking', and cognitive abilities are strongest. Were we to have emotional olympics, the woman would kick our asses.


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OfflineLikwidDrawp
Dance EnergyConjuror

Registered: 07/10/03
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Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
Re: Why can't women compete with men? [Re: Shroomism]
    #1731285 - 07/20/03 12:44 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Perhaps women have been suppressed for thousands of years, looked "down" upon. Maybe they chose this, or maybe generation after generation formed them this way due to being expected to perform more "womanly" tasks. In any case, I definately dont know the truth.


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OfflineRhizoid
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Registered: 01/23/00
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Re: Why can't women compete with men? [Re: Steevil]
    #1731857 - 07/20/03 07:13 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

A chemistry teacher of mine once told my class that out of 14 different areas that one study divided intelligence into, such as verbal, arithmetic, etc, women beat men in 13.




You're talking about averages now, right? I bet you would still find a majority of men in the 99th percentile if the test population is large enough.

It's easy to see how this can happen. Assume we have two populations, called A and B, and that both have approximately gaussian distributions of scores on some test. Here is the distribution for population A:

Score - Percentage
1. - 0
2. - 0
3. - 0
4. - 4
5. - 24
6. - 44
7. - 24
8. - 4
9. - 0

And here is the distribution for population B:

Score - Percentage
1. - 1
2. - 4
3. - 11
4. - 21
5. - 26
6. - 21
7. - 11
8. - 4
9. - 1

The average score is 6 for population A, but only 5 for population B. And of those who have the highest score (the "winners"), one hundred percent come from population B.

This was an artificially constructed example, but it illustrates the principle clearly.


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Why can't women compete with men? [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1732409 - 07/20/03 03:32 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Interesting...
*strokes chin*


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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InvisibleDoctorJ
Stranger
 Arcade Champion: Frogger

Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,451
Loc: space
Re: Why can't women compete with men? [Re: Sclorch]
    #1732549 - 07/20/03 04:41 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

News in Science- Male Y chromosome here to stay

this is an interseting thing I read in the paper a while back. turns out y chromosomes aren't a dead end. in fact, they are quite a bit more self sufficient than the X chromosome.


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Why can't women compete with men? [Re: LikwidDrawp]
    #1733870 - 07/21/03 02:49 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Perhaps women have been suppressed for thousands of years,

I doubt that top women bowlers, whose average is significantly lower than top male bowlers, are frequently, consciously or unconsciously, affected by the political plight of women a thousand years ago.

"Gee, I will miss this spare because we did not get the right to vote until 100 years ago."


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlineatomikfunksoldier
T'was born oftrue in the yearof the cock!

Registered: 04/07/03
Posts: 1,500
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Re: Why can't women compete with men? [Re: Swami]
    #1733935 - 07/21/03 03:23 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

well, I think women have trouble competing because most things are designed for males/by the male mind. Im sure males have difficutly with things created by the female mind/for females.


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enjoy the entertaining indentity i have constructed for you while you can.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Why can't women compete with men? [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1733961 - 07/21/03 03:36 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Please give an example? Note that the best chefs in the world are men.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleZero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3,594
Loc: Passing Cloud
Re: Why can't women compete with men? [Re: Swami]
    #1733977 - 07/21/03 03:40 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

males are doing the same shit they had to do back in the caves... go get the food... find and trade mushrooms. you know how it is. getting flint and stone. building some shelters and shit. they knew the only way they could keep on chugging is if they fought the environment... and as they moved into other men they fought or whatever. cause they had to protect their territory. Its just so simple... our species is not THAT advanced. its just till lately we have been able to spread the information... put it together. categorize it... fuck it up again and shoot it back out... and now where we are... i have no idea. transition hopefully, i just hope that people decide to move on with the transformation process, make choices to change. to understand and to coexist. but thats up to the will of each individual on our planet.... so good luck to them! and getting past our old ways.


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What?


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OfflineMalachi
stereotype

Registered: 06/19/02
Posts: 1,294
Loc: Around Minneapolis.
Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
Re: Why can't women compete with men? [Re: Swami]
    #1733982 - 07/21/03 03:42 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

ok, you're right swami, women are just inferior.

oh, that's not what you're trying to point at? then make a point. you seem to have a socrates complex.


--------------------
The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich


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Offlineatomikfunksoldier
T'was born oftrue in the yearof the cock!

Registered: 04/07/03
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Re: Why can't women compete with men? [Re: Malachi]
    #1733988 - 07/21/03 03:44 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

swami - caring for children


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enjoy the entertaining indentity i have constructed for you while you can.


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