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dustinthewind13
Fool



Registered: 11/05/10
Posts: 5,219
Loc: Being a burden
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When to use the SWIM alternative
#17267461 - 11/23/12 02:23 AM (11 years, 5 months ago) |
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Does using SWIM help a lot if you talk about how SWIM did drugs in the past? At what times would you use SWIM? I have never used it before as far as I can remember and I'm curious if I should ever use it on the shroomery? And why are us shroomerites so immune to using it? It seems other drug forums use it much more often.
-------------------- "It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and forget his own." - Marcus Tullius Cicero "A room without books is like a body without a soul." - Marcus Tullius Cicero "Do not bite at the bait of pleasure, till you know there is no hook beneath it." -Thomas Jefferson
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dmob12
SupaFuxed



Registered: 09/14/08
Posts: 846
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
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I have an aversion to any more than partial anonymity.
-------------------- Traversing the galaxies one trip at a time.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,521
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Quote:
dustinthewind13 said: Does using SWIM help a lot if you talk about how SWIM did drugs in the past? At what times would you use SWIM? I have never used it before as far as I can remember and I'm curious if I should ever use it on the shroomery? And why are us shroomerites so immune to using it? It seems other drug forums use it much more often.
It might have some value in establishing one's familiarity with a subculture, but it has zero value in protecting one legally.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
Edited by Enlil (11/23/12 06:58 AM)
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Crypt Keeper
Stranger Danger



Registered: 02/18/12
Posts: 547
Loc: The Crypt
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Re: When to use the SWIM alternative [Re: Enlil]
#17269981 - 11/23/12 05:03 PM (11 years, 5 months ago) |
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-When you fall out of a boat -If you find yourself in a rising water level -When you are stationary in a pool -If you are near a body of water and feel like exercising
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist

Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,392
Last seen: 2 days, 23 hours
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If you want actual legal protection for your posts, say "my friend" instead of "I".
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ssblind



Registered: 04/10/11
Posts: 199
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
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I don't use it because I think it sounds dumb and I dislike reading swim every other word when I know the poster means themselves.Also I do not think it will save you because if the police are watching your online browsing they know what you do already.
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dustinthewind13
Fool



Registered: 11/05/10
Posts: 5,219
Loc: Being a burden
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Re: When to use the SWIM alternative [Re: ssblind]
#17271433 - 11/23/12 10:08 PM (11 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Alan Rockefeller said: If you want actual legal protection for your posts, say "my friend" instead of "I".
Quote:
ssblind said: I don't use it because I think it sounds dumb and I dislike reading swim every other word when I know the poster means themselves.Also I do not think it will save you because if the police are watching your online browsing they know what you do already.
These two don't combine.
-------------------- "It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and forget his own." - Marcus Tullius Cicero "A room without books is like a body without a soul." - Marcus Tullius Cicero "Do not bite at the bait of pleasure, till you know there is no hook beneath it." -Thomas Jefferson
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Visionary Tools



Registered: 06/23/07
Posts: 7,953
Last seen: 1 year, 11 months
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SWIM=Someone that Wankypretentiouswayofsaying"my friend" Is Me
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist

Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,392
Last seen: 2 days, 23 hours
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Quote:
dustinthewind13 said: These two don't combine.
They combine perfectly, depending on the situation. If they have you, they have you. If they have nothing and it's a borderline case, saying that your friend grew the mushrooms could save you from a warrant being issued, since they don't know where they are and when the pics were taken.
Posting pics of your friend doing illegal things doesn't mean that you are doing it.
In reality, you'll be fine either way, but saying my friend doesn't sound as stupid as saying swim.
And some times I do go to my friends houses and take pics of illegal things. A lot of people do this, so just because you post a pic of something illegal doesn't mean you are doing it. Here is a good example, pics of my friends closet:
http://mushroomobserver.org/95460
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CidneyIndole
www.shroomery.OG



Registered: 05/16/05
Posts: 4,762
Loc: Love's Secret Domain
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I disagree that it offers no protection.
The way I look at it is this
Admitting to a crime, is not the same thing as NOT admitting a crime. If "they" have your web posts and bring it up in court, they can bring up some expert in something to the stand to testify that "SWIM" is a term often used to shield oneself, blah blah... and maybe that would work for the prosecutor.
But it still is not a direct admission. And I honestly question the motives and agenda of anyone online who argues differently -- ESPECIALLY those who use ridicule.
-------------------- ------------------------ I am me. We are You.
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MushingOut


Registered: 09/18/12
Posts: 395
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 8 years, 9 days
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Never really saw the point of that.Its not like we use our actual names.Even so, you have to be a reet not to know SWIM is actually you.
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Edited by MushingOut (11/24/12 11:10 PM)
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CidneyIndole
www.shroomery.OG



Registered: 05/16/05
Posts: 4,762
Loc: Love's Secret Domain
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Re: When to use the SWIM alternative [Re: CidneyIndole]
#17275673 - 11/24/12 08:41 PM (11 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
MushingOut said: Never really saw the point of that.Its not like we use are actual names.Even so, you have to be a reet not to know SWIM is actually you.
If you think there is no way anyone could ever connect your IRL identity to this account or things you've said online, you're sadly mistaken.
Besides, like I said:
Quote:
CidneyIndole said: Admitting to a crime, is not the same thing as NOT admitting a crime. If "they" have your web posts and bring it up in court, they can bring up some expert in something to the stand to testify that "SWIM" is a term often used to shield oneself, blah blah... and maybe that would work for the prosecutor.
But it still is not a direct admission. And I honestly question the motives and agenda of anyone online who argues differently -- ESPECIALLY those who use ridicule.
Thanks for not using mocking ridicule, though. 
-------------------- ------------------------ I am me. We are You.
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist

Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,392
Last seen: 2 days, 23 hours
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Re: When to use the SWIM alternative [Re: CidneyIndole]
#17275704 - 11/24/12 08:48 PM (11 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
CidneyIndole said: But it still is not a direct admission.
Yes it is. SWIM means "Someone Who Is Me". All internet cops know this.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,521
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: When to use the SWIM alternative [Re: CidneyIndole]
#17278640 - 11/25/12 12:14 PM (11 years, 5 months ago) |
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As I've said in other threads, SWIM doesn't help.
If the cops can tie you to the posts, the statements are not enough to convict you alone whether or not you use swim. They are enough to get a warrant whether or not you use swim.
If evidence seized is not enough to convict you, but adding an admission is, then the admission makes a difference because of the similarities between the admission and the evidence found. If the admission is couched in terms of swim, those similarities still exist and it will still be enough to tip the evidence in favor of conviction.
If the cops can't tie you to a post, it makes no difference whether swim is used or not because they can't use the post anyway.
If there is a difference in quality of evidence between a swim post and a non-swim post...which I think is unlikely...that difference is very, very minor...and could be completely eliminated by a prosecutor presenting evidence of SWIM being a common term used to mean "someone who is me." Faced with that evidence, a defendant would have three choices:
1. Testify that he was talking about someone else...and give the name of that someone else (bad choice anyway because it means he'd have to testify)
2. Offer evidence to rebut the prosecutor's evidence about the meaning of swim (Good luck with selling that)
3. Cross-examine the prosecutor's witnesses and try to undercut their credibility in claiming that swim means "someone who is me." (probably the best choice, but it's a tough row to hoe.)
In the end, I don't see any practical way that SWIM would help someone avoid conviction.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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CidneyIndole
www.shroomery.OG



Registered: 05/16/05
Posts: 4,762
Loc: Love's Secret Domain
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Quote:
Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:
CidneyIndole said: But it still is not a direct admission.
Yes it is. SWIM means "Someone Who Is Me". All internet cops know this.
I don't know where you heard this, but it is actually an acronym for Someone Who ISN'T Me.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=swim
But even this argument sort of proves my point. They are not naming themselves nor using personal pronouns like "I" and "me." As such, I insist that it is not the same as a direct confession.
Enlil makes some very valid and good points. But I still hold that this is not a direct confession. Even if they can tie your activities to your suspected writing, hell, even if they can prove the writing is yours, you are not confessing in open language. I'm sure you're correct that if they have that much info on you, and a case that advanced, that non-confession would not really help. But they would still have to argue that these are your words confessing those activities, instead of just saying "see? he said it himself!"
-------------------- ------------------------ I am me. We are You.
Edited by CidneyIndole (11/26/12 03:08 PM)
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johnm214


Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: When to use the SWIM alternative [Re: Enlil]
#17285843 - 11/26/12 05:05 PM (11 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: As I've said in other threads, SWIM doesn't help.
If the cops can tie you to the posts, the statements are not enough to convict you alone whether or not you use swim. They are enough to get a warrant whether or not you use swim.
If evidence seized is not enough to convict you, but adding an admission is, then the admission makes a difference because of the similarities between the admission and the evidence found. If the admission is couched in terms of swim, those similarities still exist and it will still be enough to tip the evidence in favor of conviction.
If the cops can't tie you to a post, it makes no difference whether swim is used or not because they can't use the post anyway.
If there is a difference in quality of evidence between a swim post and a non-swim post...which I think is unlikely...that difference is very, very minor...and could be completely eliminated by a prosecutor presenting evidence of SWIM being a common term used to mean "someone who is me." Faced with that evidence, a defendant would have three choices:
1. Testify that he was talking about someone else...and give the name of that someone else (bad choice anyway because it means he'd have to testify)
2. Offer evidence to rebut the prosecutor's evidence about the meaning of swim (Good luck with selling that)
3. Cross-examine the prosecutor's witnesses and try to undercut their credibility in claiming that swim means "someone who is me." (probably the best choice, but it's a tough row to hoe.)
In the end, I don't see any practical way that SWIM would help someone avoid conviction.
If stonehenge is the judge, the case will get thrown out because you used SWIM
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist

Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,392
Last seen: 2 days, 23 hours
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Re: When to use the SWIM alternative [Re: CidneyIndole]
#17286870 - 11/26/12 07:57 PM (11 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
CidneyIndole said: I don't know where you heard this, but it is actually an acronym for Someone Who ISN'T Me.
In my experience, SWIM means "Someone who is me." I have never seen someone use SWIM when they are actually referring to someone else.
Quote:
But even this argument sort of proves my point. They are not naming themselves nor using personal pronouns like "I" and "me." As such, I insist that it is not the same as a direct confession.
It doesn't matter, you can't confess to a crime over the internet anyway. You can provide evidence that can be used to apply for a search warrant to gather some more firm evidence. The actual physical evidence would convict you, not what you said on the internet.
Quote:
But I still hold that this is not a direct confession.
Correct. But even a direct confession over the internet is not a confession. It would only give them probable cause to gather some hard evidence.
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LateForTheFuture
Old Hand



Registered: 02/24/03
Posts: 845
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Alan is correct. The whole "SWIM" debate is wayyyy over. Its pointless.
--LFTF
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