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Offlinedmtcorey
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brake up grain trays and spawn to bulk?
    #17263316 - 11/22/12 09:00 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

hey !

back for some advice !

well some may have seen my posts about the z strain colonizing so fast i would colonize right over my casing layer,i did 4 batch's of mini grain trays like this ,24 in total and am having the same problem with all of them !

what im thinking of doing is taking the trays and braking them up and spawning them to bulk ,some of the are a week and a haft in the FC already and im worried about the bulk contaming do to fanning these trays for a week and a bit !
would it be a safe bet to go ahead?would the coir kind of cap off the contams from taking over?

what do you guys think?

thanks

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Re: brake up grain trays and spawn to bulk? [Re: dmtcorey]
    #17263448 - 11/22/12 09:39 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

dmtcorey said:
well some may have seen my posts about the z strain colonizing so fast i would colonize right over my casing layer,i did 4 batch's of mini grain trays like this ,24 in total and am having the same problem with all of them !





What did you case with?

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Offlinedmtcorey
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Re: brake up grain trays and spawn to bulk? [Re: shroom_bee]
    #17264471 - 11/22/12 01:43 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

peat and verm

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Re: brake up grain trays and spawn to bulk? [Re: dmtcorey]
    #17264499 - 11/22/12 01:50 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

dmtcorey said:
peat and verm




Are you sure you care if they have totally colonized the top?  Most cubes will pin, casing or not, it is really a choice of certain benefits the casing may give you, but it is not usually REQUIRED.

So now they have a myc top, rather than a casing top.  I would NOT cover with coir, that'll just give them more stuff to eat and possibly avoid fruiting.

Can you leave them in fruiting, in good conditions, for a while?

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Re: brake up grain trays and spawn to bulk? [Re: shroom_bee]
    #17264565 - 11/22/12 02:04 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

They should still be able fruit if the casing layer fully colonizes even though it'd be acting more as a bulk sub than a casing layer. I wouldn't add anything to it now that it's been out in fruiting conditions for so long.


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Re: brake up grain trays and spawn to bulk? [Re: shroom_bee]
    #17266305 - 11/22/12 08:38 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

shroom_bee said:
Quote:

dmtcorey said:
peat and verm




Are you sure you care if they have totally colonized the top?  Most cubes will pin, casing or not, it is really a choice of certain benefits the casing may give you, but it is not usually REQUIRED.

So now they have a myc top, rather than a casing top.  I would NOT cover with coir, that'll just give them more stuff to eat and possibly avoid fruiting.

Can you leave them in fruiting, in good conditions, for a while?



grains alone will not friut without a casing layer

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Re: brake up grain trays and spawn to bulk? [Re: dmtcorey]
    #17266322 - 11/22/12 08:42 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

kizzle iv seen your posts and i know your on the ball so friuting they will stay~

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Re: brake up grain trays and spawn to bulk? [Re: dmtcorey]
    #17267630 - 11/23/12 04:54 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

This is no longer a grain only substrate.

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Re: brake up grain trays and spawn to bulk? [Re: shroom_bee]
    #17271188 - 11/23/12 09:06 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

there must be a misunderstanding ,or you didnt read the whole thread!

the grain trays have not been spawned to bulk ,but the only way rye grains will friut is with a casing layer !

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Re: brake up grain trays and spawn to bulk? [Re: dmtcorey]
    #17272380 - 11/24/12 04:18 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

dmtcorey said:
there must be a misunderstanding ,or you didnt read the whole thread!

the grain trays have not been spawned to bulk ,but the only way rye grains will friut is with a casing layer !





Was it not cased and then grew over the casing layer?
And if so, it is not grain only anymore.
Or did I miss something else?

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Re: brake up grain trays and spawn to bulk? [Re: shroom_bee]
    #17273404 - 11/24/12 11:42 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

looks to me as our definitions of what a bulk substraight is are conflicting ,as well as are definition of a straight grain substraight !

what would you consider it to be ?grains cased with a peat/verm casing layer...

i have never herd of grain trays with a casing layer called a bulk substraight ! or have i ever seen grain trays with a fully colinized casing layer friut !

not saying your wrong or anything but would like to shed some better light on things!

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Re: brake up grain trays and spawn to bulk? [Re: dmtcorey]
    #17277117 - 11/25/12 01:53 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

dmtcorey said:
looks to me as our definitions of what a bulk substraight is are conflicting ,as well as are definition of a straight grain substraight !

what would you consider it to be ?grains cased with a peat/verm casing layer...

i have never herd of grain trays with a casing layer called a bulk substraight ! or have i ever seen grain trays with a fully colinized casing layer friut !

not saying your wrong or anything but would like to shed some better light on things!





#1:  Yes, cubes will not fruit directly on grain (or at least it is very rare).

#2: Cubes usually don't NEED casing, but will occasionally benefit.  Except when they are all grain (rather than a mixed substrate), and at that point, need to be cased.

#3: No, I would not consider it any normal sub, but it is no longer just grain.  I do not know if that casing layer is enough to cause fruiting, but the myc did eat it and grow over it, so it is no longer just grain.


Someone else with more experience in this particular area needs to comment further on the probably of you doing anything new and achieving success with it. I have seen a few grows of cased grain that fruit, and I have tossed casing on top of a jar that ate it, I ignored it, and then it fruited a while later.  Not recommending doing it, just I know it is possible.

Edited by shroom_bee (11/25/12 01:56 AM)

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Re: brake up grain trays and spawn to bulk? [Re: shroom_bee]
    #17277186 - 11/25/12 02:32 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

shroom_bee said:
Cubes usually don't NEED casing, but will occasionally benefit. 




Cubes do not benefit from a casing layer unless proper moisture levels cannot be obtained.

If fruiting strait grains, then a casing layer is needed. But fruiting straight grains is not recommended.

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Re: brake up grain trays and spawn to bulk? [Re: PussyFart]
    #17279824 - 11/25/12 04:09 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

so would these trays on the left be considered a bulk substraight or a grain only substraight? they are rye grains cased with a peat/verm casing layer,as you can see the mycilium has colinized its way through pretty good !

Edited by dmtcorey (11/25/12 04:14 PM)

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Re: brake up grain trays and spawn to bulk? [Re: dmtcorey]
    #17279917 - 11/25/12 04:28 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

dmtcorey said:
so would these trays on the left be considered a bulk substraight or a grain only substraight? they are rye grains cased with a peat/verm casing layer,as you can see the mycilium has colinized its way through pretty good !



Those are grains that have been cased...

The mycellium is not supposed to colonize a casing layer, its just supposed to poke thru.

A bulk substrate would be if u mixed the grains with coir/verm or horse poo/verm and let that colonize and fruited it.

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Re: brake up grain trays and spawn to bulk? [Re: Kizzle]
    #17281227 - 11/25/12 07:36 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
Quote:

dmtcorey said:
so would these trays on the left be considered a bulk substraight or a grain only substraight? they are rye grains cased with a peat/verm casing layer,as you can see the mycilium has colinized its way through pretty good !



Those are grains that have been cased...

The mycellium is not supposed to colonize a casing layer, its just supposed to poke thru.

A bulk substrate would be if u mixed the grains with coir/verm or horse poo/verm and let that colonize and fruited it.



this is what i have learned as well ,so just because the casing layer has been colinized to this degree does not classify it as ,not grain only ,it is a straight grain substraight with a casing layer aplied
Quote:

Kizzle said:
They should still be able fruit if the casing layer fully colonizes even though it'd be acting more as a bulk sub than a casing layer. I wouldn't add anything to it now that it's been out in fruiting conditions for so long.



kizzle ,you do realize that these are rye grains that have colinized over the casing layer ,right ? you say say they will friut alright ...?this dont sound right ,but i guess we,ll see and all post back with the results so this can be confermed!

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Re: brake up grain trays and spawn to bulk? [Re: dmtcorey]
    #17284921 - 11/26/12 02:23 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Grains don't hold a lot of moisture and dry out quickly. So to fruit them you can use either use a casing layer or a bulk sub. Peat/verm doesn't make for the best bulk sub but it's sufficient to provide them with the additional moisture. If you were growing a species that required a casing layer and not a just bulk sub you'd be screwed if your casing layer fully colonized since it would no longer be providing the microclimate those species need to fruit.


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Re: brake up grain trays and spawn to bulk? [Re: Kizzle]
    #17287176 - 11/26/12 08:58 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

i have read about the casing layer holding the moisture like you have pointed out,just never came across friuting grains with a casing layer colinized as much as mine .

im am firmilier with fruiting grains and all ,it was my primairy method just up until my frist bulk harvest a couple days ago ,but this strain im working with now colinizes faster then anything iv had in the past and like i say its hard to time when to throw em into the fc !

its my lack of experience giving me the unsurtainty i guess ,but i will go with your recomenation and experience !

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Re: brake up grain trays and spawn to bulk? [Re: Kizzle]
    #17327397 - 12/03/12 03:38 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Kizzle said:
Grains don't hold a lot of moisture and dry out quickly. So to fruit them you can use either use a casing layer or a bulk sub. Peat/verm doesn't make for the best bulk sub but it's sufficient to provide them with the additional moisture. If you were growing a species that required a casing layer and not a just bulk sub you'd be screwed if your casing layer fully colonized since it would no longer be providing the microclimate those species need to fruit.



i have to send credit your way kizzle ,those trays are starting to fruit !

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Re: brake up grain trays and spawn to bulk? [Re: Kizzle]
    #17331685 - 12/04/12 09:45 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Kizzle said:
Grains don't hold a lot of moisture and dry out quickly. So to fruit them you can use either use a casing layer or a bulk sub. Peat/verm doesn't make for the best bulk sub but it's sufficient to provide them with the additional moisture. If you were growing a species that required a casing layer and not a just bulk sub you'd be screwed if your casing layer fully colonized since it would no longer be providing the microclimate those species need to fruit.




Also it depends on your sub base.  If you have coir/verm you get all the tiny valleys and bumps that are ideal for fruiting, so a casing layer doesn't add much benefit if your humidity is good. As the myc is growing, any "breakthroughs" to the top layer from below end, knot and leave the perfect spot for a pin to form on the coir/verm top layer.

On the other hand, if you are using just straw, the myc grows ACROSS the top, leaping and leaving large flat strands of myc that form a mat, and sucks for providing the fruiting microclimate.  So casing makes a HUGE difference on straw for microclimate creation.

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