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Enlil
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Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 66,705
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Reducing from 6 inch to 4 inch sewer.
#17247487 - 11/19/12 04:30 PM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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Post might get a bit long...sorry about that.
I have a 6 inch sewer lateral running from my house to the city sewer in the middle of the street. It is 4 inches coming out of my basement and immediately converts to 6 inch clay at the footer. The pipe crosses diagonally toward the center of the street at about a 10 degree angle. It connects to the side of the city sewer with the bottom of my lateral being about the same height as the bottom of the city sewer.
About two years ago, I paid a company to replace the portion of the pipe that is under the street. I had a clog that no one could snake out, and it was determined that it was under the street. Since having the pipe under the street changed, I have snaked the drain about every 3 months with an electric eel sectional snake. No other snake I tried would clear the drain.
Finally fed up with snaking the drain, I sent a camera down the line and found that they had not changed the last 33 inches of pipe before it connects to the city sewer. In addition, I could see a ridge on the bottom of the pipe at the point where it connects to the sewer.
After much yelling, the plumbing company came out with a tool and tried to grind down the ridge. It improved it significantly, but the drain clogged again within a month. Now the city engineer is telling the plumber that he has to make a new tap into the city sewer downstream of where the current one is. He is also saying that the tap must be made with 4" pipe.
The plumber plans to do the following:
1. Cut the pipe back about 4 feet from the city sewer. 2. Reduce from 6" pvc to 4" pvc and take a 45 degree angle 3. Run the 4" to the new tap point and tap into the city sewer.
Here are my questions:
1. Is it kosher to reduce from 6 inch to 4 inch? It seems to me that this will create a 1" lip similar to what I already have. Even if it is tapered, it seems like it would pool water and waste in the area.
2. If the pipe is already so shallow of a pitch that the bottom of the lateral is at the same level as the bottom of the city sewer, how can they add additional pipe without flattening?
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iateshaggy
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Re: Reducing from 6 inch to 4 inch sewer. [Re: Enlil]
#17247677 - 11/19/12 05:02 PM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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there are acentric reducers that if properly installed will eliminate the lip you are concerned with, but i would as a local inspector or engineer if reducing downstream like that would be legal. typically though, house sewers are 4".
edit: can yall just run the 4" through the 6"?
Edited by iateshaggy (11/19/12 07:28 PM)
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Prisoner#1
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Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Reducing from 6 inch to 4 inch sewer. [Re: Enlil]
#17249832 - 11/19/12 10:41 PM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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terracotta crumbles especially when it gets old, if it's running PVC to clay then that's likely to be a problem and could explain the hump, if there's tree roots under the clay that could also cause the hump and they really shouldnt be grinding on clay to begin with because the shit is just too brittle and it;s likely already busted or the pipe has backed out of the city lines and dropped which is why there's a hump
you cannot reduce a drain pipe from 6" to 4" inch. this plumber you're talking to sounds like a real fuckwit if he's going to reduce from 6" to 4"in order to tap the city lines, it will cause more problems than you're currently having, you already see this.
what needs to be done is to tie in to the 4" under the house or where ever it lands, run 4" all the way to the city, in doing so you should be able to get 2 degrees of fall for good drainage
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Enlil
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Posts: 66,705
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Reducing from 6 inch to 4 inch sewer. [Re: Prisoner#1]
#17250780 - 11/20/12 05:01 AM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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I know the best solution is to run all new 4". The problem is that the plumber is unwilling to even replace the entire section under the street with 4". The portion from the house to the curb would be my problem anyway since he wasn't contracted for that portion.
My issue is that the city engineer seems to be okay with this current plan. If/when it doesn't work, I won't have a whole lot I can do about it. The plumber will say "We did what the city told us to do" and the city will say "fuck you, your problem."
I guess I need some resource to show the engineer to get him to understand that this is not a solution. If I can just get the plumber to change to 4" from city to curb, I can dig up and replace the rest. I just can't dig up the street myself. It's a concrete street.
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iateshaggy
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Re: Reducing from 6 inch to 4 inch sewer. [Re: Enlil]
#17250798 - 11/20/12 05:09 AM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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if the plumber is unwilling to do what you want and know is needed, fire him immediately.
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Enlil
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Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 66,705
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Reducing from 6 inch to 4 inch sewer. [Re: iateshaggy]
#17250809 - 11/20/12 05:14 AM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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That's a great solution...but then I have to pay someone else to do it. As it stands now, I've already paid this plumber, and he would have to fix this on his dime. If I hire someone else, the first plumber gets a pass on the piss poor work that he did, and I have to pay the new plumber.
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iateshaggy
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Re: Reducing from 6 inch to 4 inch sewer. [Re: Enlil]
#17251829 - 11/20/12 11:19 AM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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either force him to do it right even if it means filing a complaint on his license or hire another plumber. is it possible to just put the 4" pipe in side the 6" pipe?
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Enlil
OTD God-King
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 66,705
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Reducing from 6 inch to 4 inch sewer. [Re: iateshaggy]
#17251850 - 11/20/12 11:22 AM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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Possible, of course...whether he'll do it or not is another question. That would require excavating a larger section of the road. I'm sure this is what he's trying to avoid since it means cutting the concrete and replacing it and the rebar.
I have zero problem suing the guy if necessary...but to do that, I'm going to need to be able to point to some code or written standard that says that what he is doing is improper. If I can't do that, then I don't have much of a case in court.
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iateshaggy
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Re: Reducing from 6 inch to 4 inch sewer. [Re: Enlil]
#17254068 - 11/20/12 05:51 PM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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your state should have a plumbing board and a code book. my state even lets us download a pdf of the code book for free.
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Reducing from 6 inch to 4 inch sewer. [Re: Enlil]
#17257150 - 11/21/12 07:46 AM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: I just can't dig up the street myself. It's a concrete street.
want to pay me to do it, I specialize in concrete and I grew up doing plumbing with my pop
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Enlil
OTD God-King
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 66,705
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Reducing from 6 inch to 4 inch sewer. [Re: Prisoner#1]
#17257151 - 11/21/12 07:47 AM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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No...I don't want to pay anyone to do it...That's the point..I've already paid over $10k for it.
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Enlil
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Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 66,705
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Reducing from 6 inch to 4 inch sewer. [Re: Enlil]
#17257153 - 11/21/12 07:48 AM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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Not to mention the bond with the city ($40 per square foot)...the cop that sits in his car all day ($60 an hour)...and the road opening permit ($400)
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Reducing from 6 inch to 4 inch sewer. [Re: Enlil]
#17257157 - 11/21/12 07:49 AM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: No...I don't want to pay anyone to do it...That's the point..I've already paid over $10k for it.
I hope you screamed rape while he was fucking you
I just did an entire drain field for $7000
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Enlil
OTD God-King
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 66,705
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Reducing from 6 inch to 4 inch sewer. [Re: Prisoner#1]
#17257159 - 11/21/12 07:50 AM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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This is what I get for taking the cheapest bid.
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Enlil
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Posts: 66,705
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Reducing from 6 inch to 4 inch sewer. [Re: Enlil]
#17257164 - 11/21/12 07:54 AM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Reducing from 6 inch to 4 inch sewer. [Re: Enlil]
#17257190 - 11/21/12 08:04 AM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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for $10k I could have done it to the city including the concrete with a non shrinking engineered cement and rebar reinforcement and covered hotel and travel expenses and the permits. gotta love those unions.
in your position I'd stay on his ass, shaggy's idea is sound and would avoid having to tear up the street, I'm assuming that in his bid he was supposed to cover all the permits and costs as well as making sure it worked properly. from your statement the reducer wasnt part of the city's plan and I dont know of anywhere that it's acceptable by code
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Prisoner#1
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Registered: 01/22/03
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Re: Reducing from 6 inch to 4 inch sewer. [Re: Enlil]
#17257206 - 11/21/12 08:11 AM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: this is what they're talking about using at this point.
http://www.pexsupply.com/Spears-429-532E-6-x-4-PVC-Schedule-40-Eccentric-Reducer
as long as it's going from a 4 to a 6 then it's acceptable but he still needs to ensure that there's suitable fall in the pipe and that there's no obstructions in the old pipe
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Enlil
OTD God-King
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 66,705
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Reducing from 6 inch to 4 inch sewer. [Re: Prisoner#1]
#17257213 - 11/21/12 08:15 AM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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I had to cover the bond, road permit, and cop...he had to cover everything else.
At this point, the city engineer is all for reducing from 6 to 4 with an eccentric reducer and tapping into the city downstream of the current tap.
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Reducing from 6 inch to 4 inch sewer. [Re: Enlil]
#17257273 - 11/21/12 08:36 AM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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letting it in on either side of the existing pipe would be fine and could be done with the 4", but when it runs from a 6" pipe to a 4" pipe it creates and obstruction which will increase the frequency at which you'll have problems
sounds to me like this city engineer needs to return to school and you need to step on his head to get this shit done right, if need be tell him you spoke with an engineer from Fluor Corporation (Fluor Daniel) who said he's fucking nuts if he thinks that an eccentric reducer will fix your problem
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iateshaggy
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Re: Reducing from 6 inch to 4 inch sewer. [Re: Prisoner#1]
#17258866 - 11/21/12 01:57 PM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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p#1, u work for fluor? same one that does all the plant turnarounds? he also had a plumbing foreman tell him the same. if there is no talking them out of it, make sure he at least gives u a 2 way clean out, but yeah, 10k, it should have been done right the first time and then some.
-------------------- You are a filipina sex goddess who wants to fuck me until I fall asleep, so then you can tickle my balls and see if the legend of my diamond filled nutsuck is true. I am a white man from costa rica, who smells like lime jello. I can flash/jtag/repair 360's, pm for details.
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