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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
the Gifted Program
    #1722077 - 07/16/03 03:48 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

Okay... before we get into criticizing/discussing it, I just want to know..

Who here is/was in the "Gifted" program in school?


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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OfflineMalachi
stereotype

Registered: 06/19/02
Posts: 1,294
Loc: Around Minneapolis.
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
Re: the Gifted Program [Re: Sclorch]
    #1722116 - 07/16/03 04:00 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

it was GT in hawaii and G.A.T.E. in the midwest. in hawaii we wrote poetry and learned about hippie stuff (environmental issues mostly) and in the midwest we played carmen sandiego and did logic puzzles. oh and one time we poked people and looked at blood in a microscope, that was the coolest thing ever in grade school.


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The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich

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OfflineAlbino_Jesus
Clearly Retarded
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Registered: 09/14/02
Posts: 1,698
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Re: the Gifted Program [Re: Sclorch]
    #1722118 - 07/16/03 04:00 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

well You already know but....

*raises hand anyway*


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The only difference between the Republican and Democratic parties is the velocities with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door.
-Ralph Nader


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: the Gifted Program [Re: Sclorch]
    #1722149 - 07/16/03 04:13 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

When I went for the porn audition, they told me that I was "gifted"; is that what you mean?

I remember in third grade the teacher told us that fish breathe underwater because waster is composed of hydrogen and oxygen. I corrected her saying that fish did NOT perform electrolysis, but breathed dissoved air bubbles. I was immediately punished.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: the Gifted Program [Re: Albino_Jesus]
    #1722154 - 07/16/03 04:14 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

Does it mean anything that the "gifted" are more likely to be hardcore skeptics?


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The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisibleZero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3,594
Loc: Passing Cloud
Re: the Gifted Program [Re: Swami]
    #1722309 - 07/16/03 05:12 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

no. i was going to get into the "gifted" program, but my teacher said that i didnt listen very well, so i didnt get in. some kids that are in gifted program... are not really that gifted, and they could be anything. anything.


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What?

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Anonymous

Re: the Gifted Program [Re: Zero7a1]
    #1722424 - 07/16/03 05:57 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

i was, and it was the single most retarded thing i was ever a part of, besides the great demon, which was school. they took me out of math and english so me and the other nerds could build small cities out of cardboard.

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Offlinemntlfngrs
The Art of Casterbation
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Re: the Gifted Program [Re: Sclorch]
    #1722664 - 07/16/03 06:53 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

Never in a "gifted" program or anything but I scored good enough on some test that they had me go take the SAT in 8th grade. Then I went to HS and had better things to do than mess with school.


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Be all and you'll be to end all

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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: the Gifted Program [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #1722770 - 07/16/03 07:23 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

I need more replies...

Don't be shy now.


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: the Gifted Program [Re: ]
    #1722837 - 07/16/03 07:44 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

Yeah I was in the GT and AP classes.  In some respects, I found those classes easier than normal ones though.  I was a huge underachiever, rarely turning in homework and mainly just taking tests, and most of my teachers were cool with that.  Plus, I got out of taking freshmen college English classes.  :laugh: 

As for the discussion, my girlfriend just graduated and will start teaching 5th grade this fall, and she (who I must say is extremely bright) has mixed feeling about this.

Let me share the study she presented to me when we were having this discussion.

Quote:

  The Classic Research on Expectations


The classic research on expectations was done in the 1960's by Robert Rosenthal of Harvard University and Lenore Jacobson of the South San Francisco schools.  The fed erroneous information to a group of South San Francisco elementary school teachers and watched the teachers make the results come true.



In the spring of the preceding school year, the students at Oak School were pretested.  When school began that fall, the researchers and the administrators told the teachers that they were special teachers who were to be part of a special experiment.



They were told, "Based on a pretest, we have indentified 20 percent of your students who are special.  They will 'spurters' or 'bloomers' and are a designated group of students of whom greater intellectual growth is expected."



The names were really selected at random, but the teachers were led to believe that the status of being special children was based on scores on the pretest, the Harvard Test of Inflected Acquisition.  "As a special reward for your teaching excellence, we are going to tell you this information, but with two conditions:


1.  You must not tell the students that you know that they are special.


2.  None of us are going to tell the parents that their children are special.



Thus we expect and know that you will do extremely well with these special students."



Eight months later, all the students were tested again, and a comparison was made of the designated special students and the undesignated students, as measured by IQ scores.  The results showed a significant gain in intelliectual growth for the 20 percent who were designated special in the primary grades but no significant gains in the intermediate grades.



The administrators brought the teachers in, showed them the growth results of their students, and congratulated them on their spectacular success witht their students.



The teachers said, "Of course, we had special students to work with,  It was easy, and they learned so fast."



The administrators and researcher said, "We'd like to tell you the truth.  The so called special children were picked at random.  We made no selections based on IQ or aptitude."



"Then it must have been us, " said the teachers, "because you said we were special teachers selected to be part of a special experiment."



"We need to tell you something else, too, " replied the researcher.  "All the teachers were involved in this experiment.  None of you were designated special over any other teacher."



This was perfectly designed experiment.  There was only one experimental variable - EXPECTATION.



1.  The expectations of the administrators toward the teachers were stated explicitly.  "You are special teachers, and these 20 percent of your students are special students who show potential for intellectual gorwth.  Thus we expect and know that you will do extremely well with these special studnets."



2.  The expectations of the teachers toward the students were conveyed implicitly and were unspoken.  Because the teachers believed that they had some very special students in the school, their body language, personality, and attitude influenced their teaching and expectations for their students.



As the researchers stated, "The results suggest rather strongly that children who are expected by their teachers to gain intellectually in fact do show greater intellectual gains after one year than do children of whom such gains are not expected."




 
We both agree these programs have their place, but this raises some interesting questions concerncing childrens capacity for learning. 


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I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine

Edited by HagbardCeline (07/16/03 08:13 PM)

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OfflineMalachi
stereotype

Registered: 06/19/02
Posts: 1,294
Loc: Around Minneapolis.
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
Re: the Gifted Program [Re: Sclorch]
    #1722852 - 07/16/03 07:48 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

I skipped most of middle school too.

Some help it was.... public school is public school, it didn't get any more interesting and after I skipped I was too skinny to play sports.

it was dumb. I wish I could have gone to one of those progressive schools on the east coast where you can study what you want.

academic freedom in grade schools! that would've been the shit.


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The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich

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OfflineDoctorJ
Male

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Re: the Gifted Program [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #1722854 - 07/16/03 07:49 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

the gifted program... what a waste of time. At my school it was called "REACH" (i forgot what the acronym stood for). Then I was in honors classes in high school... what a joke. I remember they made us read Jurrasic Park in 11th grade Honors English- I read that book in fourth grade...

wanna know what the real gifted program is? skip school and go to the library. smoke a joint on your way there.

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OfflineMalachi
stereotype

Registered: 06/19/02
Posts: 1,294
Loc: Around Minneapolis.
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
Re: the Gifted Program [Re: DoctorJ]
    #1722861 - 07/16/03 07:51 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

word


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The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich

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OfflineKenny Bus
The enlightend

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 321
Loc: ontario
Last seen: 15 years, 2 months
Re: the Gifted Program [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #1722879 - 07/16/03 07:57 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

i aced the cat and ccat tests in elementary, (thats the country wide tests we have in canada) 9.9's accross the chart, but i was too much of a "trouble maker" to join the gifted class. wich i wasnt, i just question some reasoning you know? then i got kicked out of highschool near the end of grade ten, they told me that because i was skipping so many class's and still passing, that the other students thought they could do it to, and dont understand why they are failing, so for setting a bad example for the others, they sent me to this fucked up school for misfit kids, where none of the students have a future and half the teachers didnt have a liscense. anyways they told me if i didnt take myself out of the school they would kick me out, so i took myself out, only to find out later that they couldnt kick me out. so now i'm 19 in a couple months with 8 highschool credits. poor me.


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KB

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OfflineDoctorJ
Male

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Re: the Gifted Program [Re: Kenny Bus]
    #1722932 - 07/16/03 08:09 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

fuck hs...  get your GED and go to community college if you need a degree to get a job or something.  once you've been in community college for like 60 credit hours, you can transfer to a four year and they wont even look at your high school grades.

I got crappy grades in high school cuz I was always studying much cooler stuff and i never turned anything in and wrote joke answers on all my tests...  A good SAT really helps though

now I'm phoning in a masters degree while I smoke pot and write novels :smile: 

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Offlinepattern
multiplayer

Registered: 07/19/02
Posts: 2,185
Loc: Canada
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Re: the Gifted Program [Re: DoctorJ]
    #1722981 - 07/16/03 08:33 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

I was in International Baccalaureate, advanced math, etc in highschool. Was easy, and as a bonus got free university credits because of it.

It was alot of fun, since the same IB class went thru grades 10-12 together, got to know them all well.


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man = monkey + mushroom

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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: the Gifted Program [Re: Sclorch]
    #1723008 - 07/16/03 08:42 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

I skipped 3rd grade and took some AP classes in high school.

school was a complete joke, but man I got some great hookups there! that's all it was good for anyway.

if you went through public education, consider yourself robbed.

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InvisibletrendalM Happy Birthday!
J♠
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Re: the Gifted Program [Re: Sclorch]
    #1723043 - 07/16/03 08:58 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

I was.

Then the schoolboard cancelled it for my school because it was so small. It was just me and one other kid anyway.


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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InvisibleJared
Stranger
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Registered: 04/22/01
Posts: 8,783
Re: the Gifted Program [Re: Sclorch]
    #1723050 - 07/16/03 09:01 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

Here, they divide nearly every class into two groups.. Advanced and Regular. The problem is, most of its not federally or provincially run.. The people who are in the advanced classes, and receive more difficult assignments, work and tests, generally don't do as well as the kids who take it easy in the dumbfuck classes. On your report card there is nothing to differentiate between the two levels, and that sucks.

I was in advanced everything, except french, until I started fucking around, then they bumped me down to dumbass math, and bio. The only class really worth taking advanced in was L.A. because you didn't have to bother with the mechanics of the language, you got to have much more freedom in what you did.

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OfflineGrav
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Re: the Gifted Program [Re: Jared]
    #1723426 - 07/16/03 10:53 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

my grade school was a joke.
we didn't really have resources for that kind of thing...

in math class we used to bring handfuls of pebbles in from the playground. then we'd set the big tables on their sides as fortresses and have huge pebble throwing wars while the teacher sat head-down on her desk crying...

i feel bad looking back at the situation...

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Offlinemonoamine
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Re: the Gifted Program [Re: Grav]
    #1723472 - 07/16/03 11:06 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

I went from being in special ed (I actually had to ride the short bus to school in 1st grade) to the gifted program in two years time. We didn't have any sort of gifted program in my high school,but in Junior High the program was awesome. They basically let us educate ourselves. All we had to do was read a book every couple of weeks and write a report about and take some tests.


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People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything...
Douglas Adams

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Offlinetoned3f
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Re: the Gifted Program [Re: monoamine]
    #1723476 - 07/16/03 11:07 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

I was a member. Similar to the rest of elementary school, it was a waste of fucking time.

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Offlinemonoamine
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Registered: 09/06/02
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Re: the Gifted Program [Re: DoctorJ]
    #1723483 - 07/16/03 11:09 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

fuck hs... get your GED and go to community college if you need a degree to get a job or something. once you've been in community college for like 60 credit hours, you can transfer to a four year and they wont even look at your high school grades.




That's basically what I'm doing now ,but I have a real diploma from the local community college.


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People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything...
Douglas Adams

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InvisibleZero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3,594
Loc: Passing Cloud
Re: the Gifted Program [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #1723804 - 07/17/03 01:12 AM (20 years, 8 months ago)

AP was such bullshit. i wouldnt call it "gifted" imo. no offense at all... its just that they were a joke. the kids were not any smarter, and it was bullshit the whole time! we barely got to excersize anything creative... or interesting. kids cheated and finished their homework and made good grades and got scholarships and went to GREAT... schools. i slept through my AP Exam. wasted 60$. ap economics was a JOKE, we had worksheets...YAY...for beauracracy... and a guy that shouldnt have been a teacher! AP art was bad ass though... my old art teacher did paintings of crop circles.


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What?

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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: the Gifted Program [Re: Zero7a1]
    #1723819 - 07/17/03 01:22 AM (20 years, 8 months ago)

I didn't say that AP classes were the gifted classes, although in my school, some were combined.


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I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine

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InvisibleDarkcloud
‮tiwkcuFtsilihiN
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Re: the Gifted Program [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #1723861 - 07/17/03 01:47 AM (20 years, 8 months ago)

I took some AP classes in high school. I wasted $82 on two AP exams. They were pretty idiotic. But then again...high school was idiotic anyways.

My only good class in all of high school was AP English IV. I had a smart and amazingly beautiful/sexy female teacher who was pretty much liberal in the way she taught us. I loved her.  :heart: 


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:poison: :poison: :poison:

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Offlinenubious
1up on the rest

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Re: the Gifted Program [Re: Darkcloud]
    #1724335 - 07/17/03 09:13 AM (20 years, 8 months ago)

Me and school never got along. It was always so easy, so I just stopped paying attention. Got to smoking pot in about grade 7, and from there on in I just got lazy. Homework? Never did it. Did enough to get by, until I started to E a lot.. that fucked me over.. ended up dropping out three times.. between that and a fucked up family life, I never really had a chance to get my shit done.

It's funny, because now I'm 21, live on my own, and work with people who have college educations.. School means nothing - it's all how you apply yourself.


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No one knows the worth of innocence till he knows it is gone forever, and that money can't buy it back. Not the saint, but the sinner that repenteth, is he to whom the full length and breadth, and height and depth, of life's meaning is revealed. Good and evil loose all objective meaning and are seen as equally necessary and contrasting elements in the masterpiece that is the universe.

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OfflineRhizoid
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Re: the Gifted Program [Re: nubious]
    #1724411 - 07/17/03 09:57 AM (20 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

School means nothing - it's all how you apply yourself.




I agree. The main purpose of school is to sort the sheep into various graded levels. I pretended to be a sheep and got good grades every year, but in fact I never learned anything in school, I learned everything I know by spending time in the library. I skipped classes to sneak away to the library...

It's what you know and how you apply it that is important, at least in my line of work (computer programming).

But if you want a job that needs some kind of license to prove that you're not a quack, then it's essential to sit through the necessary schools and do all the required stuff. That includes most types of academic research positions, where you usually need to have a PhD before you can even apply.

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InvisibletrendalM Happy Birthday!
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Re: the Gifted Program [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1724428 - 07/17/03 10:09 AM (20 years, 8 months ago)

I learned nearly everything I know outside of class, as well. Outside of school, most of the time.

I spent my days in school training my mind with the knowledge I had learned outside the walls  :wink:

So it turns out that school was, after all, useful for something  :smirk:


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Offlinepattern
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Re: the Gifted Program [Re: trendal]
    #1724837 - 07/17/03 01:14 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

> School means nothing - it's all how you apply yourself.

thats true. try moving to a big city where you dont know anyone. your education means shit.


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man = monkey + mushroom

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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: the Gifted Program [Re: Sclorch]
    #1724921 - 07/17/03 02:01 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

in cleveland primary schools in the early 60s it was called "major works program"...
been there, done that...
junior high, accelerated program (cincinnati)
hs (erie pa) SATs 99%ile, national merit scholar, who's who in american high schools...
bfd, couldn't make it past 3 semesters at case tech... (never had actual "competition" before :wink: ... & i was "easily distracted" ...
finally bart simpson's motto struck me --- "underachiever and proud of it"
...well, eventually finished college ar csu on the work full time & take occasional classes until you eventually graduate program, hehheh...


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old enough to know better
not old enough to care

Edited by gnrm23 (07/17/03 02:06 PM)

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InvisibleZero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3,594
Loc: Passing Cloud
Re: the Gifted Program [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #1725307 - 07/17/03 04:00 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

yeah thats what i figured. i was actually going to say something about it beforehand, but i decided not too. sorry to come off that way. i know they arent "special" and i dont think you thought that anyway! or at least i had no idea of knowing.... anyway. sorry about that!


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What?

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Offlineneutralizer
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Registered: 06/17/03
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Re: the Gifted Program [Re: Zero7a1]
    #1725470 - 07/17/03 04:42 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

I graduated high school with 20 other people, so you can imagine the amount of money and time invested in my old school's 'Gifted and Talented' program. It was fun, though; we got to play pictionary, look for Waldo, and play with this neat learning toy, Geo-Tracker (I think that's what it was called). I think we read a book once; didn't do much more than that.

I grew up in Texas, and if anyone else stared school in the 80s-90s in TX you'll know about the TAAS test. About 2/3 of the entire school year was spent specifically getting us ready for the joke called the TAAS test. It was ridiculous, and not necessary - the school knew that the higher scores the kids got, the more money the school would get, so we were taught specifically to get a good score on that test - anything more was on the backburner. Being my cynical self, I'm sure that amounted to more money for the higher-ups in the administration, and of course more money for the small-town football team (and not to the band, or art deparment, or a GT program)...but that's how it is in small towns in TX. This lasted until I think my junior year. But by then we didn't even have a GT program, or an AP program (and I graduated hs in 99). The closest thing to that that we had was called "Accellerated Reader" - which consists of reading a book and taking a test over it once every several weeks. It was a joke.

After HS I moved away to college, lost religion, found out I was gay, and was introduced into the world of pot and mushrooms. I've learned more about myself and the world in the past 4 years than I did in the 18 before that. Maybe that's how it usually is..


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There are things known, and there are things unknown, and in between are the doors - Morrison

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InvisibleZero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3,594
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Re: the Gifted Program [Re: neutralizer]
    #1726929 - 07/18/03 02:24 AM (20 years, 8 months ago)

the TAAS test was the gayest shit ever! but now... its come back from the dead as the TAKS test. what kind of beuracratic bullshit is that? LOL! thank god im out of that shit hole. lol. all the other kids are stuck with like 5 even more seemingly pointless tests. IT was awful, i dont know if any other state has ever had to do anything like that. Do you remember they were teaching us that stuff in 3rd grade, getting us ready for that. All these years i could have been learning something important, learning how to utilize discipline for something that might have been important! but no... it was the TAAS test. im kind of glad though that our art program was pretty good. my teachers were awesome. The gt program wasnt anything great either, they read different books at different times than the AP students.

My school was pretty good though, its a Blue Ribbon School. I had an awesome german teacher... but i heard he has cancer  :frown:  :sad: . I need to call him. It was teachers like him that made me want to try harder, made me feel like that there is a place for people to do whats right in the world.
 


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What?

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Invisiblehoushroom
shroom cowboy

Registered: 05/07/03
Posts: 678
Loc: space city
Re: the Gifted Program [Re: Zero7a1]
    #1744555 - 07/24/03 12:18 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

there's no such thing as a TAAS test anymore? man, have i been out a long time. thats good though, 'cause standardized tests suck! i did shitty on my pre-SAT and SAT, and my counselor even told me not to go to college and instead work at a local factory. fuck her in the ass, i pulled a 4.0 at a respected university for 3 years and graduated top 5% in my class!

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OfflineAmnesiac
Re-memberingcosmic wisdom

Registered: 03/30/03
Posts: 188
Loc: Unknown
Last seen: 19 years, 6 months
Re: the Gifted Program [Re: Sclorch]
    #1744657 - 07/24/03 01:00 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

I never gave enough of a shit about school, but had I applied myself I'm sure they would have put me in it. I always aced my tests, but never did homework because I didn't believe in it. I was only ever willing to give them so much of my time and effort. I had more important things on my mind.

Like remembering who I was and why I came to this twisted reality.


--------------------
Here we are, in these bodies, on this planet in an endless universe. This is not the extent of who we are... merely an extension of who we really are.

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OfflineAlbino_Jesus
Clearly Retarded
 User Gallery

Registered: 09/14/02
Posts: 1,698
Loc: Construction ahead...
Last seen: 14 years, 2 months
Re: the Gifted Program [Re: Amnesiac]
    #1744681 - 07/24/03 01:08 PM (20 years, 8 months ago)

I don't know why, but I really enjoy standardized tests.

actually, I think the waiting for a month and recieving results and then sitting back while all my classmates compare scores, then being asked to show mine, then seeing the looks on their faces... that was the good part....

narf


--------------------
The only difference between the Republican and Democratic parties is the velocities with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door.
-Ralph Nader


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