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Not Quite Social


Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 1,418
Loc: Midwest
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Re: US Military is the new welfare state [Re: Gilgamesh18]
#17209190 - 11/12/12 06:55 PM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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zZZz
jesus


Registered: 12/28/07
Posts: 33,478
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you're still a D. 
clowning on legless vets..that's just mean.
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Not Quite Social


Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 1,418
Loc: Midwest
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Re: US Military is the new welfare state [Re: zZZz]
#17209309 - 11/12/12 07:14 PM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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If you're personally offended, I apologize. Please don't kick my ass.
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gluke bastid
Stinky Bum



Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 3,322
Loc: Charm City
Last seen: 5 years, 4 months
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Quote:
Not Quite Social said: Vets are not a special class of citizen. They're just former federal government employees. Most of them contributed to immoral deaths of foreigners and destruction of their lands. Our prisons are full of people who committed far less atrocious crimes. Happy Veterans Day! (Yesterday)
Whether or not you support a specific military campaign, if you are going to have a government with a military then it is that government's obligation to deal with needs of returning vets as they try to re-enter "normal" society. Not only is it a moral obligation, its a logistical one. The streets of America would not be nearly as bad as they are today if homeless, opiate-addicted post-traumatic vets hadn't flooded them in the aftermath of vietnam. PTSD therapy is typically effective. To deny vets treatment and gradual re-integration is to create a financial and social burden that lasts generations.
Its not just the government's job either. Its our civic responsibility. I was never a supporter of the war in Afghanistan but I've been giving time and money to the vet associations since day 1. I'm not bragging. I just happen to know first hand that a little compassion and effort, especially from people not supportive of the war, goes a long way with these soldiers.
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Society in every form is a blessing, but government at its best is but a necessary evil - Thomas Paine
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Not Quite Social


Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 1,418
Loc: Midwest
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Re: US Military is the new welfare state [Re: gluke bastid] 1
#17211409 - 11/13/12 07:50 AM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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Sure, I think we should bring all the soldiers home and give them middle class jobs building luxurious pyramids for the ones who were injured. That's all better than walking around someone's marketplace with a machine gun, lobbing mortars at people, dropping bombs on them, firing missiles. Previously I was chastised for being insensitive about a soldier's injuries. These guys are responsible for what they do. Rather than get upset about a tasteless joke, why not recognize the evil these people volunteered to commit. A man can always say No. No I won't shoot this gun at people. No I won't fire this missile. No I won't drop a bomb. No I won't burst into a family's home and intimidate men, women & children inside. No I won't drive an armed tank down your city street. Soldiers don't say No, they do these things. Sure, take care of them when they're hurt, but they are not first in line.
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gluke bastid
Stinky Bum



Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 3,322
Loc: Charm City
Last seen: 5 years, 4 months
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I honestly can't tell which parts of your post are sarcasm and which are sincere.
Taking the hard line that every soldier who went into the military needs to spend his life being punished and ashamed for the violence s/he was a part of doesn't move us forward as a society. These aren't sociopathic or psychopathic criminals that we are talking about, going around killing people for their own gain or sick amusement. Typically they are aspiring to be normal human beings and come away from war with a hatred of violence. They are potentially useful members of society. If you are obsessed with punishing them for what you perceive to be their crimes that gets us and them nowhere.
You may find their desire to serve their country by going into war for it misguided, but I just think you don't need to look very far to see the negative consequences of ignoring PTSD in a generation of returning soldiers in order to come to the conclusion that we should deal with the systemic issues they deal with when they get home. If we can pay for them to go get killed we should pay for them to come home and live.
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Society in every form is a blessing, but government at its best is but a necessary evil - Thomas Paine
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Not Quite Social


Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 1,418
Loc: Midwest
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Re: US Military is the new welfare state [Re: gluke bastid]
#17212007 - 11/13/12 10:45 AM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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I sincerely agree with helping people who have been soldiers get the care they need and support to reintegrate back into civil society.
I do think most, as I said, most of them volunteered to hurt people, to kill people, to destroy people's homes and villages. Regret or change-of-heart after the fact does not help the people, the families, they were paid to hurt. Each person who joins the military and functions in some way to affect such misery on others--we should not forget that each person is individually responsible. That doesn't mean they should be denied care. Whatever label one chooses or chooses not to stick on them, they willingly participated in evil, and many of them committed individual acts of evil. The evil cannot be rationalized away as "protecting my buddies" or "defending my county" or "defending freedom" or "doing my duty" or "following orders" or "fighting the enemy". These soldiers, if they have troubled or changed hearts, they need to help heal the people and families they caused to suffer. That will heal the former soldier as well; working to make things better for the people he hurt will heal his conscience, his PTSD, better than alcohol, drugs, medical or psychological treatment, better than the wretched comfort and ease he bought for himself and his family in the USA.
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Therian
Stranger

Registered: 03/04/09
Posts: 684
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Quote:
now gets a guaranteed $900 a month for life because he gets "headaches".
Then you brother is a fucking douche. I'm sure had he not enlisted he would still be a parasite on the american people. He would probably be one of those section 8 varieties that chooses not to work. He most likely was a clerk or a cook. Or perhaps he was one of those sodomites that prefers to "serve" in the navy, safely going about their business miles out at sea.
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What's a legless vet going to do, run over my foot?
No, I would rip the arms off Trayvons rotting negro corpse and beat you with them.
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Sure, I think we should bring all the soldiers home and give them middle class jobs building luxurious pyramids for the ones who were injured.
Actually, tricare the insurance offered to vets is substandard at best. A great deal of private practitioners won't even accept it. Injured vets have some of the most deplorable health care provided to anyone. Illegal mexican vermin that break into this country receive far better care than do those that actually fought for this country. There have been vets that have actually starved to death in VA hospitals. Also, many wait for MONTHS to get treatment, if they receive any at all.
Its ok though Obama wanted vets to pay for their own prosthetics after that douche sent them overseas.
"Just 6 weeks after taking office, Commander-in-Chief Obama petulantly argued that, if American veterans want medical treatment for their combat injuries, it's up to them to figure out where the money should come from."
Tears, No Laughter Many thanks to Yukio Ngaby at Critical Narrative for an early alert about Barack Obamas intention to make wounded warriors (and their wives) pay for medical treatments related to their injuries, including buying their own prosthetics to replace limbs blown off by (what's the administration's latest term for terrorists?). I greatly respect Yukio and other bloggers who were able to get the word out using coherent sentences, something that I certainly was unable to do for hours after hearing this news. http://quite-rightly.blogspot.com/2012/05/flashback-obama-wants-war-vets-to-pay.html
Guess who doesn't have to pay for their own medical care. Illegal mexican fugitives most certainly can't be held accountable to pay their own medical bills. Obamas stereotypical Negress welfare whore of an aunt epitomizes who actually gets FREE quality medical care. See peeps all one has to do is illegally stay in this country, defy the ruling of a federal judge concerning deportation, and what do you get? Tens of thousands in FREE medical care, FREE housing, FREE food, FREE electricity, FREE gas, they even give this worthless piece of shit tinted wore a STIPEND, as one will never know when she needs to purchase more Kool-aid to color her hair.
But of course vets should receive no assistance for injuries that occurred WHILE FIGHTING OVERSEAS.
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Vets are not a special class of citizen. They're just former federal government employees. Most of them contributed to immoral deaths of foreigners and destruction of their lands.
It's okay if you feel that way most vets just laugh at such ignorant banter. We know full well that even though many may ridicule and bitch, first off they are cowards gladly receiving the benefits of those that would fight in their stead, but more importantly you just exhibit the fact that others have fought for your right to be an utterly ignorant douche, as well as a thieving, homosexual minority collecting welfare benefits.
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I wouldn't say it to a person's face because I'm not an asshole.
Contrary to what you have deluded yourself into believing, you are an asshole, and the reason you would not say this to someones face is due to the fact you are a coward.
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,926
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (02/12/22 07:16 PM)
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Therian
Stranger

Registered: 03/04/09
Posts: 684
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Quote:
To the extent that they do, it's bc they've been brainwashed to dehumanize the foreigners that they are killing, in order that they kill on command being the aggressors.
You are hilarious! Brainwashed to dehumanize foreigners? We are fighting FOR the foreigners. We are the aggressors? Perhaps since you were never there, you have no recollection of whom these people are. In case you've forgotten.
http://www.ajuaa.com/lookme/play.php?vid=6998 I believe this couple was guilty of the crime of listening to music.
http://www.ajuaa.com/lookme/play.php?vid=958 These people were most likely guilty of the crime of allowing their sick children to be treated by army physicians.
http://www.ajuaa.com/lookme/play.php?vid=1584 These ones? Perhaps they wanted their daughters to have access to an education.
Yeah, American soldiers are the aggressive, dehumanizing assholes. Putting their lives on the line to help FOREIGNERS rid themselves of murdering islamic fanatics. When the perps which were taped in the prior videos are killed I for one would cheer, as would every one of their relatives. Sorry that someone such as yourself with such advanced and refined sensibilities cannot understand. But then again how could you when your scope of understanding is limited, and your ignorance on the matter infinite. You weren't there, have never participated, yet somehow feel you have the requisite knowledge to enable you to make a value judgement on something you know absolutely nothing about. Want to make that change? Then enlist and do better. Go help the Iraqis pick pieces of their childrens flesh and faces off the side of a brick wall, and tell me how we are soooo cruel to the jihadists that target and kill innocent children and women. When you come back, we can talk.
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Ellis Dee
Archangel



Registered: 06/29/01
Posts: 13,104
Loc: Fire in the sky
Last seen: 4 years, 11 months
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Re: US Military is the new welfare state [Re: Therian]
#17212591 - 11/13/12 01:14 PM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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The things you've been told are truths are not as they seem.

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psyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 6,100
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
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Re: US Military is the new welfare state [Re: Therian]
#17212687 - 11/13/12 01:33 PM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Therian said:
Quote:
To the extent that they do, it's bc they've been brainwashed to dehumanize the foreigners that they are killing, in order that they kill on command being the aggressors.
You are hilarious! Brainwashed to dehumanize foreigners? We are fighting FOR the foreigners. We are the aggressors? Perhaps since you were never there, you have no recollection of whom these people are. In case you've forgotten.
http://www.ajuaa.com/lookme/play.php?vid=6998 I believe this couple was guilty of the crime of listening to music.
http://www.ajuaa.com/lookme/play.php?vid=958 These people were most likely guilty of the crime of allowing their sick children to be treated by army physicians.
http://www.ajuaa.com/lookme/play.php?vid=1584 These ones? Perhaps they wanted their daughters to have access to an education.
Yeah, American soldiers are the aggressive, dehumanizing assholes. Putting their lives on the line to help FOREIGNERS rid themselves of murdering islamic fanatics. When the perps which were taped in the prior videos are killed I for one would cheer, as would every one of their relatives. Sorry that someone such as yourself with such advanced and refined sensibilities cannot understand. But then again how could you when your scope of understanding is limited, and your ignorance on the matter infinite. You weren't there, have never participated, yet somehow feel you have the requisite knowledge to enable you to make a value judgement on something you know absolutely nothing about. Want to make that change? Then enlist and do better. Go help the Iraqis pick pieces of their childrens flesh and faces off the side of a brick wall, and tell me how we are soooo cruel to the jihadists that target and kill innocent children and women. When you come back, we can talk.
Civilian body count by the hands of U.S forces http://news.antiwar.com/2011/02/15/us-coalition-directly-killed-over-11000-civilians-in-iraq-in-five-years/
gunships murdering journalists
yes we are aggressors you racist homophobic piece of shit
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Penelope_Tree
Shamanic Panic


Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 8,535
Loc: magic sugarcastle
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Re: US Military is the new welfare state [Re: psyconaught]
#17212861 - 11/13/12 02:10 PM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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The language used in your last sentence really helps prove your point.
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full blown human
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
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Re: US Military is the new welfare state [Re: SlashOZ]
#17212919 - 11/13/12 02:19 PM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
SlashOZ said: Its funny, if we had never invaded Iraq off of false pretense we wouldn't need to support thousands of Iraq vets. That money could be used to pay down the debt. The debt, would of course, be smaller because there wouldn't have been the war in Iraq to run up the dept. Its funny how the Iraq war, recruiting soldiers to fight in Iraq, and paying for Iraq war veteran benefits is just a downward spiral with absolutely nothing to show for it in return except a few thousand dead bodies and permanently maimed individuals. Not to mention a world wide anger at America for our wars in Iraq. Epic fail America.
The war in Iraq cost less than last year's means tested assistance payments and was approximately 5% of our $16T debt. There were no false pretenses. Saddam was not in compliance with the terms of surrender. I think removing a vicious international war criminal from the reins of a rather large and energy rich nation was most certainly worthwhile. So do his neighbors and most Iraqi citizens. The world is not mad at us because we deposed Saddam Hussein. Approximately 50 other nations assisted us.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
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Quote:
Not Quite Social said: Don't think you know me, brother. I wouldn't say it to a person's face because I'm not an asshole.
ORLY?
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,926
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Re: US Military is the new welfare state [Re: Therian]
#17212932 - 11/13/12 02:22 PM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (02/12/22 07:18 PM)
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
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Re: US Military is the new welfare state [Re: psyconaught]
#17212975 - 11/13/12 02:29 PM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
psyconaught said:
Quote:
Therian said:
Quote:
To the extent that they do, it's bc they've been brainwashed to dehumanize the foreigners that they are killing, in order that they kill on command being the aggressors.
You are hilarious! Brainwashed to dehumanize foreigners? We are fighting FOR the foreigners. We are the aggressors? Perhaps since you were never there, you have no recollection of whom these people are. In case you've forgotten.
http://www.ajuaa.com/lookme/play.php?vid=6998 I believe this couple was guilty of the crime of listening to music.
http://www.ajuaa.com/lookme/play.php?vid=958 These people were most likely guilty of the crime of allowing their sick children to be treated by army physicians.
http://www.ajuaa.com/lookme/play.php?vid=1584 These ones? Perhaps they wanted their daughters to have access to an education.
Yeah, American soldiers are the aggressive, dehumanizing assholes. Putting their lives on the line to help FOREIGNERS rid themselves of murdering islamic fanatics. When the perps which were taped in the prior videos are killed I for one would cheer, as would every one of their relatives. Sorry that someone such as yourself with such advanced and refined sensibilities cannot understand. But then again how could you when your scope of understanding is limited, and your ignorance on the matter infinite. You weren't there, have never participated, yet somehow feel you have the requisite knowledge to enable you to make a value judgement on something you know absolutely nothing about. Want to make that change? Then enlist and do better. Go help the Iraqis pick pieces of their childrens flesh and faces off the side of a brick wall, and tell me how we are soooo cruel to the jihadists that target and kill innocent children and women. When you come back, we can talk.
Civilian body count by the hands of U.S forces http://news.antiwar.com/2011/02/15/us-coalition-directly-killed-over-11000-civilians-in-iraq-in-five-years/
gunships murdering journalists
yes we are aggressors you racist homophobic piece of shit
When journalists hang out with RPG and other weapon toting combatants in a war zone they take their chances. Start at 3:30. AKs and an RPG
How many Iraqis did Saddam not have the opportunity to murder because we took him out? According to your source Coalition forces were responsible for 11,000 civilian deaths. That seems pretty fucking low for a war zone. The vast majority of the civilian deaths were from Iraqis themselves, something that continues to this day but doesn't match the toll under Saddam.
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Not Quite Social


Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 1,418
Loc: Midwest
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Therian said,
Quote:
No, I would rip the arms off Trayvon's rotting negro corpse and beat you with them.
Of course you would.
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,926
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (02/12/22 07:20 PM)
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Not Quite Social


Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 1,418
Loc: Midwest
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No, no. Sorry, Entheo, that wasn't at all supposed to be a response to you.
I do agree with all you said. I love Zinn, and lately, I have been reading him to my ten year old son two or three nights a week to balance and correct the myth they promote at school.
Besides agreeing with you, I am tired of the current fashion on the left that excuses soldiers as victims of the corrupt and immoral system. They are that. We're all that. But we all still have the choice to act morally and immorally. Few actions are as immoral as traveling to the other side of the globe and aiming and firing a deadly weapon at someone with whom you have no grievance, in fact, whom you've never met; dropping bombs on them; etc. This is psychopathology, and Americans who choose to be soldiers, choose to do the atrocious things soldiers do, not once, in a moment of moral weakness, but continuously choosing to hurt people, for pay. I have the moral authority to condemn them. Money and taxes do not make me complicit. Money is fungible, it is not mine, and the state uses it in immoral ways over which I have little to no influence.
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