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lunarforce
electric wizard


Registered: 11/02/12
Posts: 9
Last seen: 11 years, 11 months
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Grow Log - WBS to Coir Monotub (First Attempt)
#17172655 - 11/06/12 01:19 PM (12 years, 2 months ago) |
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This is my first attempt at WBS/coir monotub. I've had success with BRF cakes, so I'm trying the next step up.
Let me know what you think, I'll post updates and images as I go along.
EDIT 11/8/2012 - Heavily revised my methods following TranscendingLife's reccommendations, cheers for the info! I also decided I will be purchasing a PC after all. Fuck it, do it right the first time...
EDIT 11/29/2012 - Revised my methods once more, much simpler. My spores just arrived, so time to dive in...
EDIT 11/30/2012 - removed a bunch of redundant text and micro steps in my plan. I have followed the teks as noted under the key links exactly step by step, except where I noted otherwise. Today I am soaking my WBS grains.
EDIT 12/2/2012 - inoculation completed! removed the casing step, i won't be doing that.
My Equipment: -Pressure Cooker + Propane burner -Dozen 1/2qt jars -66qt monotub

1. Made my jars exactly like TranscendingLife's Tek EXCEPT I used EZ Felt gas exchange filters instead of synthetic filter disc material (no idea where to get that stuff): www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/14722818#14722818 2. Made my monotub again exactly like TL's tek. I am using a see-through lid, so I won't be swapping over at any time: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/14722933#14722933 3. Prepared my WBS exactly like TL's and FrankHorrigan's teks: TL: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/16069543 Frank: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17252080
 -soaked my wbs with weak coffee and gypsum, heated to simmer the next day, dried and pc'd for 2 hrs.
 4. My inoculation for this was done in my fruiting chamber, i used a different lid with arm holes in it while it sat on its side (taped up the air holes), i used cambodian ms syringe, 70% iso alcohol where necessary and flame sterilized needle, i did not shake any jars post-inoculation, roughly 1-1.5cc per jar 5. Jars are colonizing on shelf open to ambient lighting
FRUITING Coir as Substrate: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/11916595#11916595 1. Prepare Substrate -1/2 brick coir in a bucket + 1qt vermiculite + 1/4cup gypsum, add 2qts boiling water, mix well and let sit covered for 1hr -Stir well once more and let sit again for 2-4hrs -Prepare clean Fruiting Chamber and tape up all the holes -Pour most of the substrate into FC and let sit until around 80-90F -Mix in the spawn in an entirely sterile room (use gloves, rubbing alcohol, etc), mix well and evenly -Add the remaining substrate as a top layer and cover entire FC with black garbage bag, let sit for 10-14 days -Remove garbage bag when fully colonized, remove tape from FC holes and insert sterile polyfill -Induce fruiting with light, mist and fanning 2. Fruiting and Harvest -Keep temperature around 68-74F, fan and mist regularly -Pick all mature fruits within 24hrs -Fill in mycelium patched with spare casings then heavily mist to induce next flush
Edited by lunarforce (12/02/12 05:10 PM)
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TranscendingLife
I Don't Need a Life to Live



Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 21,627
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Re: Grow Log - WBS to Coir Bulk (First Attempt) [Re: lunarforce]
#17172790 - 11/06/12 01:40 PM (12 years, 2 months ago) |
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Lot's of old bad information you've been reading. Don't rinse WBS after the soak/boil. Boiling WBS is fine. I do it all the time. Filters should be on the exterior of the jar, not interior. You're going to need a PC for grains. Steaming grains like the BRF tek will result in failure. The oven tek for a clean room doesn't work. Find a room & clean it well, then look up proper sterile procedures. Never shake jars after inoculating with MS solution. Less is more using MS, as well, 2cc per jar is a bit much. I recommend 1 at most. You're mixing a SGFC & a monotub. Do one or the other. If using small trays, put in a SGFC. If you want 1 large "cake," use a monotub. No need for an air pump in either case. Casing is not required for PS.C. Light is beneficial to mycelium at all stages of growth. Indirect 12/12 for colonization & 12/12 Direct, on the same schedule as colonization, for fruiting.
Now, time for the links: WBS prep: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/16069543 Bulk Substrate prep/recipe: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/11916595#11916595 Monotub prep & spawning procedure: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/14507008/fpart/1
-------------------- AMU: We Quickly Answer Questions Here
"One must accept the probability of failure to experience the elation of success." - TranscendingLife
“A man of genius makes no mistakes; his errors are volitional and are the portals of discovery.” - James Joyce
      How I Do EVERYTHING     
"Your vision will become clear only when you can look into your own heart…. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes."- Carl Jung
"Anything that can be done chemically can be done by other means."- William S. Burroughs
"You are as dead now as you will ever be" - Seth
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lunarforce
electric wizard


Registered: 11/02/12
Posts: 9
Last seen: 11 years, 11 months
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Re: Grow Log - WBS to Coir Bulk (First Attempt) [Re: TranscendingLife]
#17172918 - 11/06/12 02:06 PM (12 years, 2 months ago) |
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Oh, wow, I did not expect a response so soon! VERY much appreciated!
Let me do a bit more homework and I'll make some adjustments to my plan by this evening. So many different methods out there it gets a bit overwhelming at first... Just glad I'm working this out now and not after I started! Will be back with some questions too...
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BaldBull
The Dude

Registered: 05/07/11
Posts: 76
Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
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Re: Grow Log - WBS to Coir Bulk (First Attempt) [Re: lunarforce]
#17173349 - 11/06/12 03:31 PM (12 years, 2 months ago) |
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TL is the man. I've never had any problems with the information he posts. Good luck.
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lunarforce
electric wizard


Registered: 11/02/12
Posts: 9
Last seen: 11 years, 11 months
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Re: Grow Log - WBS to Coir Bulk (First Attempt) [Re: TranscendingLife]
#17174539 - 11/06/12 06:57 PM (12 years, 2 months ago) |
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Hey so I just checked out your links, and wow! I'll be making quite a few changes for sure, wish I'd known of these tek's sooner. Looks like the mono tub is the way I'll go, my concern beforehand with this method was retaining proper humidity levels and the risk of contamination ruining my entire batch rather than just a smaller portion.
However, the main thing that's really determining my path is whether I go with WBS + PC or if it's worth busting up some cakes (BRF cakes? are WBS cakes possible? rye cakes?) into the bulk substrate. I probably won't have a PC for this particular grow, but it's #1 on my priority list as soon as I can fork out the cash. So if it's absolutely, positively without a doubt a waste of time to try and steam sterilize WBS, what's my best option? What is it about steam sterilizing grains that doesn't work?
Thanks again
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 22,502
Loc: Orbiting Earth
Last seen: 7 months, 28 days
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Re: Grow Log - WBS to Coir Bulk (First Attempt) [Re: lunarforce]
#17174770 - 11/06/12 07:34 PM (12 years, 2 months ago) |
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You could break up cakes and use them as spawn, but its not recommended. Fruit cakes as cakes. Use grains as spawn.
Grains to bulk is the way to go...either monotubs or trays in a greenhouse, both out perform cakes all day long.
Check out the first couple links in my signature...I think you'll enjoy them.
--------------------
THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT!
A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD,
SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List,
EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE
*** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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lunarforce
electric wizard


Registered: 11/02/12
Posts: 9
Last seen: 11 years, 11 months
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Re: Grow Log - WBS to Coir Bulk (First Attempt) [Re: PussyFart]
#17187915 - 11/08/12 11:44 PM (12 years, 2 months ago) |
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Revised my plan according to the links provided by TranscendingLife. Still awaiting spores. Will be purchasing some more supplies from Walmart, etc, on the weekend, including a pressure cooker. Will update later. Is there a better, yet still simple, method of jarring the WBS for sterilization?
Also, I'm wondering if adding brewed coffee with the coir and gypsum for the substrate is a good idea? Or should I add the actual used coffee grounds? Maybe I'm nitpicking, or maybe there's another alternative? I'm reading around that coir will need supplementary nutrients.
Edited by lunarforce (11/08/12 11:44 PM)
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TranscendingLife
I Don't Need a Life to Live



Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 21,627
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Re: Grow Log - WBS to Coir Bulk (First Attempt) [Re: lunarforce]
#17190251 - 11/09/12 12:10 PM (12 years, 2 months ago) |
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Of actually jarring them? They have jar funnels for canning in the canning section.
Don't add liquid coffee to the boil water. You can use it in your soak of your grains. If you want to add it to bulk, it'll need to be properly pasteurized separately from your coir+verm, as the bucket tek isn't 100% true & proper pasteurization. Coir+verm does not require any other additional nutrients. Toss a little gypsum in w/ the boil water & that's good enough.
-------------------- AMU: We Quickly Answer Questions Here
"One must accept the probability of failure to experience the elation of success." - TranscendingLife
“A man of genius makes no mistakes; his errors are volitional and are the portals of discovery.” - James Joyce
      How I Do EVERYTHING     
"Your vision will become clear only when you can look into your own heart…. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes."- Carl Jung
"Anything that can be done chemically can be done by other means."- William S. Burroughs
"You are as dead now as you will ever be" - Seth
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lunarforce
electric wizard


Registered: 11/02/12
Posts: 9
Last seen: 11 years, 11 months
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Re: Grow Log - WBS to Coir Bulk (First Attempt) [Re: lunarforce]
#17305557 - 11/29/12 08:37 PM (12 years, 1 month ago) |
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Okay, just going to update this...
I got myself some supplies, made myself a dozen 1/2 pint jars using TL's jar tek. I finally got my spores today! Cambodian and Argentina. I'm starting with Cambodian for this one. I will be starting all this tomorrow, first I have to soak my WBS.
 What do you think?
Question - I have gypsum I picked up (from a homebrew store), so I'm wondering if i should add to the WBS during the soaking period? Also, should I add coffee? Does it make any difference really? I don't own a coffee maker so if it doesn't make much difference I'll skip it, but if it's really noticably better I'll pick myself up a coffee maker. Hmmm...
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snaggle_tooth
astronaut



Registered: 05/21/12
Posts: 156
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
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Re: Grow Log - WBS to Coir Bulk (First Attempt) [Re: lunarforce]
#17305758 - 11/29/12 09:12 PM (12 years, 1 month ago) |
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my recommendation is follow a simple ass tek the first time around and buy rr's videos at letsgrowmushrooms.com. you can download them for like $8 or something. you really don't need to spend all that much money. my first success story came after i cut all the bull shit out of my strategy .
1.soak grain with low amounts of corn (oh yeah rinse that shit off first) 2.simmer 3. strain and dry grain 4.jar and pressure cook for 90 min 5.i recomend just using a simple polyfill filter its hard to fuck up 6.make a glove box 7.inoculate using sterile procedure 8.colonize grain at right temps 9.mix together proper substrate i like coir poo gypsum coffee vermiculite. search for the spawn calculator and use 10% gypsum 5% coffee 30% verm and i just mix half coir and half poo by eye and use that as the bulk of the substrait 10.use a true pasteurization method like the one on rr's site and watch the fucking jar temps cause you will totally fuck up and let the jars get to hot if you don't pay attention and sterilize your shit and thats not good. medium heat turn heat off when temps hit 140 then keep it around 160 for between 1 and 2 hours it takes some practice 11. just make a sit and forget monotub fuck everything else for your first attempt. from there experiment one variable at a time till you find the method that works best for you.
now this is a very rough out line but look further into the proper procedure and do your self a favor and just buy those damn videos. that's my recommendation for a first timer
-------------------- my trade list
"In the time of chimpanzees I was a monkey"
Everything that I user name "Snaggle_tooth" Post on "shroomery.org" is a fabrication for inspirational usage for my latest fictional novel. Thanks for helping with my research!
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lunarforce
electric wizard


Registered: 11/02/12
Posts: 9
Last seen: 11 years, 11 months
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Re: Grow Log - WBS to Coir Bulk (First Attempt) [Re: snaggle_tooth]
#17306126 - 11/29/12 10:36 PM (12 years, 1 month ago) |
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thanks for the comment. the only thing i spent money on was the PC, everything else for my equipment was a whopping $40. I've had success with cakes, this is just my first attempt at something a bit bigger, but i'm not all that interested in throwing shit at a wall and seeing what sticks. just trying to base my technique around proven successes as best i can. that being said, i'm in no particular rush to get to the finish, and i enjoy the finer nuts and bolts of the whole process.
I do need to still make myself a glove box though...
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TranscendingLife
I Don't Need a Life to Live



Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 21,627
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Re: Grow Log - WBS to Coir Bulk (First Attempt) [Re: snaggle_tooth]
#17306166 - 11/29/12 10:43 PM (12 years, 1 month ago) |
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Those are quart jars, not 1/2 pints. 
After you rinse the WBS clean, you add it to the soak water. Then make sure to stir your grains well at the beginning of the soak to cover them with gypsum. Bring to a boil in the same soak water, never rinse after a soak. Tek time.
WBS prep: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/16069543
Monotub tek: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/14507008#14507008
(just for fun) G2G tek: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17218726
-------------------- AMU: We Quickly Answer Questions Here
"One must accept the probability of failure to experience the elation of success." - TranscendingLife
“A man of genius makes no mistakes; his errors are volitional and are the portals of discovery.” - James Joyce
      How I Do EVERYTHING     
"Your vision will become clear only when you can look into your own heart…. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes."- Carl Jung
"Anything that can be done chemically can be done by other means."- William S. Burroughs
"You are as dead now as you will ever be" - Seth
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snaggle_tooth
astronaut



Registered: 05/21/12
Posts: 156
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
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that's your tek gold. well written and hard to fuck up. I would still suggest the video's too though. its really hard to fuck up when you can physically watch someone through the entirety of the process, but easy to miss out on some important factors while reading.
-------------------- my trade list
"In the time of chimpanzees I was a monkey"
Everything that I user name "Snaggle_tooth" Post on "shroomery.org" is a fabrication for inspirational usage for my latest fictional novel. Thanks for helping with my research!
Edited by snaggle_tooth (11/29/12 11:03 PM)
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TranscendingLife
I Don't Need a Life to Live



Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 21,627
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Re: Grow Log - WBS to Coir Bulk (First Attempt) [Re: snaggle_tooth]
#17306633 - 11/30/12 12:26 AM (12 years, 1 month ago) |
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I agree. RR's videos are priceless. However, I've never had success using his Rye prep tek for WBS. WBS has a problem with moisture consistency due to the varying sizes of the grains, which isn't problematic using Rye.
-------------------- AMU: We Quickly Answer Questions Here
"One must accept the probability of failure to experience the elation of success." - TranscendingLife
“A man of genius makes no mistakes; his errors are volitional and are the portals of discovery.” - James Joyce
      How I Do EVERYTHING     
"Your vision will become clear only when you can look into your own heart…. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes."- Carl Jung
"Anything that can be done chemically can be done by other means."- William S. Burroughs
"You are as dead now as you will ever be" - Seth
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snaggle_tooth
astronaut



Registered: 05/21/12
Posts: 156
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
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the only thing i do different in the case of wbs is stop it at boil instead of allowing it to boil for ten minutes, but it is almost essentially the same tek you posted. oh and i add weak coffee. so its a rinse grain. soak in weak coffee gypsum and water for twenty four hours a simmer. strain and dry then pc. i'm currently using both rye and wbs. rye is new for me though. i'm pretty stoked on it. i just wish i could find a cheaper means of getting it. local health stores are pricey and shipping from online suppliers is still pricey.
-------------------- my trade list
"In the time of chimpanzees I was a monkey"
Everything that I user name "Snaggle_tooth" Post on "shroomery.org" is a fabrication for inspirational usage for my latest fictional novel. Thanks for helping with my research!
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TranscendingLife
I Don't Need a Life to Live



Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 21,627
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Re: Grow Log - WBS to Coir Bulk (First Attempt) [Re: snaggle_tooth]
#17308759 - 11/30/12 12:19 PM (12 years, 1 month ago) |
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Be sure to prep your WBS & Rye separately.
-------------------- AMU: We Quickly Answer Questions Here
"One must accept the probability of failure to experience the elation of success." - TranscendingLife
“A man of genius makes no mistakes; his errors are volitional and are the portals of discovery.” - James Joyce
      How I Do EVERYTHING     
"Your vision will become clear only when you can look into your own heart…. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes."- Carl Jung
"Anything that can be done chemically can be done by other means."- William S. Burroughs
"You are as dead now as you will ever be" - Seth
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snaggle_tooth
astronaut



Registered: 05/21/12
Posts: 156
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
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i never mix them together i always use one or the other. normally wbs still.
-------------------- my trade list
"In the time of chimpanzees I was a monkey"
Everything that I user name "Snaggle_tooth" Post on "shroomery.org" is a fabrication for inspirational usage for my latest fictional novel. Thanks for helping with my research!
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TranscendingLife
I Don't Need a Life to Live



Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 21,627
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Re: Grow Log - WBS to Coir Bulk (First Attempt) [Re: snaggle_tooth]
#17312388 - 11/30/12 10:48 PM (12 years, 1 month ago) |
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I use Rye for my spawning & WBS for my G2Gs. Since I'm normally doing a G2G to 8 jars: I use 7 for spawning & 1 for another G2G.
-------------------- AMU: We Quickly Answer Questions Here
"One must accept the probability of failure to experience the elation of success." - TranscendingLife
“A man of genius makes no mistakes; his errors are volitional and are the portals of discovery.” - James Joyce
      How I Do EVERYTHING     
"Your vision will become clear only when you can look into your own heart…. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes."- Carl Jung
"Anything that can be done chemically can be done by other means."- William S. Burroughs
"You are as dead now as you will ever be" - Seth
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lunarforce
electric wizard


Registered: 11/02/12
Posts: 9
Last seen: 11 years, 11 months
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uhm, so, here's another update, I just began soaking my WBS. followed TL's tek for WBS prep exactly. Started with 10 cups dry WBS, rinsed and removed floaters, then mixed with 1qt weak coffee and 2tbs gypsum and topped up with a bit more water, mixed well and its now going to sit overnight.

I noticed my WBS had a variety of seeds and grains that I don't see in a lot of others' WBS. I'm clearly not very good with digital cameras but here's a pic of a spoonful of my WBS with as many different types of grains I could find. I see peanuts and very few corn kearnals, among others i do not recognise. Anyone use this kind before? anything to be aware of or do differently?
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snaggle_tooth
astronaut



Registered: 05/21/12
Posts: 156
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
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Re: Grow Log - WBS to Coir Bulk (First Attempt) [Re: lunarforce]
#17313495 - 12/01/12 07:26 AM (12 years, 1 month ago) |
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i'd consider a different variety of wbs. i've used it with sunflowers and cracked corn with good results but i've never heard of peanuts. feel like they would get to mushie and starchy after pcing, but hell you already soaked it. give it a shot. see if your grains come out nice and separated or if there just one big starchy clump start over. try to stick to basic milo and millet mixes.
-------------------- my trade list
"In the time of chimpanzees I was a monkey"
Everything that I user name "Snaggle_tooth" Post on "shroomery.org" is a fabrication for inspirational usage for my latest fictional novel. Thanks for helping with my research!
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