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catfrog
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Temp accidently turned up to 250 in pasteurization... Should I add more moisture now?
#17166841 - 11/05/12 04:09 PM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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We were pasteurizing bulk substrate, although we learned we need to sterilize it after... Now it's already been pasteurized at 200-250F for 2 hours and some of the substrate burned. We only took the moist substrate out. Originally it was 1 part brf, 1 part verm and 1 part water. How much should I add?
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cloudpersona
I don't even...
Registered: 12/17/11
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Last seen: 6 years, 5 months
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Re: Temp accidently turned up to 250 in pasteurization... Should I add more moisture now? [Re: catfrog]
#17166852 - 11/05/12 04:10 PM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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Start over.
-------------------- “The shaman is not merely a sick man, or a madman; he is a sick man who has healed himself.” – Terence McKenna “If the words ‘life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness’ don’t include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn’t worth the hemp it was written on.” -Terence McKenna
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition
Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: Temp accidently turned up to 250 in pasteurization... Should I add more moisture now? [Re: cloudpersona]
#17166878 - 11/05/12 04:14 PM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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Toss it. It's just going to contaminate if you try to use it.
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catfrog
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Re: Temp accidently turned up to 250 in pasteurization... Should I add more moisture now? [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#17166910 - 11/05/12 04:19 PM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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Why should it be tossed? The vast majority of it was not burnt... I'm sure the stuff that wasn't affected can still be used. The only difference now is it may have a little less moisture.
In this thread, everyone says the dude is probably fine with substrate that was overheated as long as he doesn't use the burnt stuff. I just need to know how much water to add now.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/16274363
Edited by catfrog (11/05/12 04:22 PM)
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition
Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: Temp accidently turned up to 250 in pasteurization... Should I add more moisture now? [Re: catfrog]
#17166934 - 11/05/12 04:21 PM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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No, the difference is now you have partially or fully sterilized the substrate instead of pasteurizing. Pasteurizing allows good bacteria to survive in your substrate before your mycelium colony can take over, preventing molds from germinating on it. it also kills molds and spores present in the sub. Sterilizing the sub accidently means it's fair game for every mold that wants to land on it when you spswn. It will contam. Trust us
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catfrog
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Re: Temp accidently turned up to 250 in pasteurization... Should I add more moisture now? [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#17166954 - 11/05/12 04:24 PM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
FrankHorrigan said: No, the difference is now you have partially or fully sterilized the substrate instead of pasteurizing. Pasteurizing allows good bacteria to survive in your substrate before your mycelium colony can take over, preventing molds from germinating on it. it also kills molds and spores present in the sub. Sterilizing the sub accidently means it's fair game for every mold that wants to land on it when you spswn. It will contam. Trust us
The plan is to sterilize now, as soon as I figure how much water to put in. I understand that you need to sterilize... I'm not trying to get away with just pasteurizing now. That was a mistake.
I should have mentioned, the substrate was not inoculated. It came out the oven this morning. The vast majority of it is still moist, if less so than before.
edit: wait. Now you're saying it needs to be pasteurized? Now I know sterilizing works because I've done it before and have been succesful. I was just trying to save time by pasteurizing. However everyone told me that's cutting corners and not to... Now you're saying the opposite if I understand right?
Edited by catfrog (11/05/12 04:25 PM)
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition
Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: Temp accidently turned up to 250 in pasteurization... Should I add more moisture now? [Re: catfrog]
#17166964 - 11/05/12 04:26 PM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
catfrog said: The plan is to sterilize now, as soon as I figure how much water to put in. I understand that you need to sterilize... I'm not trying to get away with just pasteurizing now. That was a mistake.
You don't want to sterilize bulk substrate. Toss it, save yourself a wasted sub
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catfrog
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Re: Temp accidently turned up to 250 in pasteurization... Should I add more moisture now? [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#17166984 - 11/05/12 04:28 PM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
FrankHorrigan said:
Quote:
catfrog said: The plan is to sterilize now, as soon as I figure how much water to put in. I understand that you need to sterilize... I'm not trying to get away with just pasteurizing now. That was a mistake.
You don't want to sterilize bulk substrate. Toss it, save yourself a wasted sub
This is not your typical "bulk substrate." It's just a lot of brf and verm. People sterilize brf and verm all the time before inoculating it... I have and it worked. I've read about loads of people doing it. I'm confused now.
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition
Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: Temp accidently turned up to 250 in pasteurization... Should I add more moisture now? [Re: catfrog]
#17166991 - 11/05/12 04:29 PM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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Lol that's a big PF cake you're making then. Yes, you would want to sterilize that. By bulk sub, I thought you meant things like coir and hpoo, etc.
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catfrog
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Re: Temp accidently turned up to 250 in pasteurization... Should I add more moisture now? [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#17166998 - 11/05/12 04:31 PM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
FrankHorrigan said: Lol that's a big PF cake you're making then. Yes, you would want to sterilize that. By bulk sub, I thought you meant things like coir and hpoo, etc.
Cool, I should've been more clear. So how much water should I add to compensate for that that's dried up?
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FrankHorrigan
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Re: Temp accidently turned up to 250 in pasteurization... Should I add more moisture now? [Re: catfrog]
#17167021 - 11/05/12 04:34 PM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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Unknown. I would still start over unless you want to test for field capacity and add water until it's there.
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catfrog
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Re: Temp accidently turned up to 250 in pasteurization... Should I add more moisture now? [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#17167047 - 11/05/12 04:38 PM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
FrankHorrigan said: Unknown. I would still start over unless you want to test for field capacity and add water until it's there.
What do you mean by test for field capacity. Starting over is really not an option cause this is a lot of substrate.
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The Shape
Registered: 10/27/07
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Re: Temp accidently turned up to 250 in pasteurization... Should I add more moisture now? [Re: catfrog]
#17167056 - 11/05/12 04:39 PM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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Well why would you pasturize brf and verm anyway? Pasturization takes place around 160. You need to sterilize brf and verm at over 200. So you should be fine as long as its at field cap
-------------------- You miserable, presumptuous, mediocre piece of shit. You have no talent. Your no artist. An artist respects the silence, it serves as the foundation of creativity. Your a disgrace. Your everything thats gone wrong in this world. You're self consumed, no talent, mediocre piece of shit. And i've earned my right to say it. In 1975 i walked Bob Dylan up on stage. Who the fuck are you? I knew The Grateful Dead in 1966. Who the fuck are you? You're nothing... And you'll never be anything. - Douglas Levison
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The Shape
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Re: Temp accidently turned up to 250 in pasteurization... Should I add more moisture now? [Re: The Shape]
#17167091 - 11/05/12 04:43 PM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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Just take a handful of the sub and squeeze it. If you only get a few drops its at field capacity. But since you exposed the sub youll have to re-sterilize.
-------------------- You miserable, presumptuous, mediocre piece of shit. You have no talent. Your no artist. An artist respects the silence, it serves as the foundation of creativity. Your a disgrace. Your everything thats gone wrong in this world. You're self consumed, no talent, mediocre piece of shit. And i've earned my right to say it. In 1975 i walked Bob Dylan up on stage. Who the fuck are you? I knew The Grateful Dead in 1966. Who the fuck are you? You're nothing... And you'll never be anything. - Douglas Levison
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36fuckin5
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Re: Temp accidently turned up to 250 in pasteurization... Should I add more moisture now? [Re: catfrog]
#17167137 - 11/05/12 04:50 PM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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You're not using a bulk substrate, you're making a big-ass cake. I would suggest not doing this at all.
If you have to do it this way, there's no way we can tell you how much water to put back in it. It needs to be at field capacity.
I suggest that you re-hydrate then load your sub into half-pint jars and steam sterilize or PC. There's a reason most people don't do big-ass BRF cakes. You'll figure it out if you try to go through with this.
Quote:
catfrog said: Starting over is really not an option cause this is a lot of substrate.
You're doing it wrong. Verm and BRF are both cheap as shit. You shouldn't be doing big runs until you've done some small ones.
-------------------- Redd Foxx said: If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more. Pat The Bunny said: A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me. bodhisatta said: i recommend common sense and figuring it out. These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.
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RogerRabbit
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Re: Temp accidently turned up to 250 in pasteurization... Should I add more moisture now? [Re: catfrog]
#17168547 - 11/05/12 08:00 PM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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It's obvious if you were trying to use the oven for brf, that you haven't found the brf video tek yet. Follow it to the letter if you want success.
The bad info spouted about as fact in this thread just gave me a headache. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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Rahz
Alive Again
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Posts: 9,301
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Re: Temp accidental turned up to 250 in pasteurization... Should I add more moisture now? [Re: catfrog]
#17168647 - 11/05/12 08:13 PM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
catfrog said: We were pasteurizing bulk substrate, although we learned we need to sterilize it after... Now it's already been pasteurized at 200-250F for 2 hours and some of the substrate burned. We only took the moist substrate out. Originally it was 1 part brf, 1 part verm and 1 part water. How much should I add?
There's no practical way to adjust the water content in your situation.
Dump it and start over... or experiment at your own risk.
Also I would suggest using BRF for PF tek jars. If you desire to do a bulk grow, spawn the PF jars to a bulk sub (that doesn't contain BRF) like coir/verm, or straw which has been pasteurized. Or get a pressure cooker and make spawn.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "The object of opening the mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid." - Gilbert Keith Chesterton
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catfrog
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Re: Temp accidently turned up to 250 in pasteurization... Should I add more moisture now? [Re: RogerRabbit]
#17168884 - 11/05/12 08:46 PM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said: It's obvious if you were trying to use the oven for brf, that you haven't found the brf video tek yet. Follow it to the letter if you want success.
The bad info spouted about as fact in this thread just gave me a headache. RR
Once again, I have watched it but this is not my first time and I was trying to do things more efficiently. I could have saved hours by using the oven.
I just read that you don't want brf quite at field capacity, just at the point where it'll stay in a ball. I got it to that point, which is pretty much the same consistency it was in last time when I just did 1:1:1 brf:verm:h2o and was successful.
Yall are making a lot of assumptions about quantity... And yes I have been successful with smaller batches. I was simply trying to save time. Then I realized I can't cut corners there. I think some of you are rushing to tell me to throw everything out... because other than the fact that determining field capacity by squeezing isn't as easy as going 1:1:1, I don't see how it's impractical. Looking around on this forum I see many instances of people urging others to throw their projects out. It seems almost like trolling half the time cause it tends to be unscientific. I am a scientist, although I will not say my field for a number of reasons, I will say it's relevant and that I'm doing this as an experiment, with the intention of finding optimal conditions for fast growth. I don't just want to read other people's teks because they tend to be unscientific. I'd rather gets bits and pieces and put it together myself.
Rahz, that's what I plan on doing... spawning from the brf/verm to poo and straw. I wanted to use brf/verm again even though there's more than last time, just cause it worked so well before. I'm changing one or two things each trial to find what works best.
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sporeface
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Re: Temp accidently turned up to 250 in pasteurization... Should I add more moisture now? [Re: catfrog]
#17168929 - 11/05/12 08:54 PM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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Planning on using humidifier in my fc. Would adding some hydrogen peroxide to the water be harmful to my shroomies?
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Rahz
Alive Again
Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,301
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Re: Temp accidental turned up to 250 in pasteurization... Should I add more moisture now? [Re: catfrog]
#17168973 - 11/05/12 09:02 PM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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Proven teks provide results. Science has nothing to do with it...
I say that with tongue in cheek. I only recommend throwing something out if I don't see how it can be saved in a way that would produce a reasonable expectation of success. The problem with adjusting the water content here is that BRF isn't a fibrous substrate. It doesn't hold and release water in the same way a bulk substrate will, so how can you be sure your water content is where it should be?
Beyond the obvious need for sterility, PF tek uses a specific recipe that avoids a field capacity check. That's why I say dump it OR experiment at your own risk. I doubt you're going to find help on getting a BRF substrate to field capacity once it's already been hydrated and partially dehydrated.
I would recommend a PC and some grains, but since you're a scientist (no sarcasm intended) and are doing an experiment, best of luck to you.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "The object of opening the mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid." - Gilbert Keith Chesterton
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