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Invisibleblabbly
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Registered: 08/31/08
Posts: 460
forest service employees
    #17149607 - 11/02/12 06:15 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

I don't know exactly what this guys title is, but what kind of authority would a person working for the forest preserve of the county have?
Today, as I was wandering around a forest preserve/prairie area that I am at nearly everyday, I was stopped by a guy claiming to be with the "forest service". (i really should have asked his official title, but i didn't want to fuck with him). he said he was watching me to see if I was collecting anything. I told him I was just out walking my dog, and he walked off without saying anything. Scared the shit out of me, I was looking at the ground as I walked so as not to trip, then I look up, and this guy is staring at me from about 50 feet away.
Anyway, say I had been collecting something illegal. (mushrooms, perhaps?) he's not a cop, so what could he do, other than call the cops? I don't know what I could have been collecting anyway, I don't think there are many mushrooms up here (northern illinois), and it's been extremely dry lately anyway. Maybe some seeds of an endangered plant?

tldr: can guys working for the forest service detain me or do anything if i'm caught committing an illegal activity?

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InvisibleNifflerz
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Registered: 06/09/08
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Loc: Pudge County, TX
Re: forest service employees [Re: blabbly]
    #17149859 - 11/02/12 07:06 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure they can. In fact they had a show on Discovery a while back where these forest service dudes were arresting people and shit.


--------------------
Aka Pudge

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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: forest service employees [Re: blabbly]
    #17150667 - 11/02/12 09:43 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Those people are law enforcement officers and they can ticket or arrest you if they catch you doing anything illegal.  They often look for mushroom pickers; in areas with lots of edibles they just write tickets to mushroom pickers, in areas with lots of actives the rangers arrest mushroom pickers for controlled substances.

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Invisibleblabbly
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Re: forest service employees [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #17151252 - 11/03/12 12:01 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Ok, cool. Thanks to both of you.
Do they have the power to search my bags or containers? I was carrying my camera bag, as always. I would have told him no if he requested that I display the contents.

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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: forest service employees [Re: blabbly]
    #17152835 - 11/03/12 10:56 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

blabbly said:
Do they have the power to search my bags or containers? I was carrying my camera bag, as always.





Only if they see something illegal, or something that suggests that you might have something illegal (probable cause).  You should always politely decline requests to search.

The department of fish & game are the only US law enforcement that can search you without probable cause.

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OfflineMorphinTime
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Re: forest service employees [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #17153043 - 11/03/12 11:40 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Depending on the state and the park, you can get fined for taking pretty much any wildlife without permission.  Even if it's a common, native plant, and not necessarily illegal to possess.  It may also serve as probable cause for a search.


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InvisibleAbuse
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Registered: 08/08/08
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Re: forest service employees [Re: MorphinTime] * 1
    #17197101 - 11/10/12 06:58 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

That would have pissed me off. The guy went out his way to hassle you for merely walking. What a busybody piece of shit


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: forest service employees [Re: Abuse] * 2
    #17197276 - 11/10/12 07:31 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Abuse said:
That would have pissed me off. The guy went out his way to hassle you for merely walking. What a busybody piece of shit




But that's what we pay them to do....If he doesn't hassle anyone and write tickets, he won't keep his job.

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Offlinech1ck3n.s0up
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Re: forest service employees [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #17198398 - 11/10/12 11:17 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

blabbly said:
Today, as I was wandering around a forest preserve/prairie area that I am at nearly everyday, I was stopped by a guy claiming to be with the "forest service".



Were you under the influence of anything at the time?

@Alan: What's the fungus in your avatar? Those aren't some weird libs, are they?


--------------------

"Inspiration ~ Move me brightly ~ light the song with sense and color ~ hold away despair ~ more than this I will not ask ~ faced with mysteries dark and vast ~ statements just seem vain at last" --Jerry Garcia, Terrapin Station

"Officer, I'm going to remain silent, and I would like to speak with a lawyer. I'm not resisting, but I don't consent to any searches.

Edited by ch1ck3n.s0up (11/10/12 11:20 PM)

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InvisibleAbuse
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Re: forest service employees [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #17200593 - 11/11/12 11:20 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:

Abuse said:
That would have pissed me off. The guy went out his way to hassle you for merely walking. What a busybody piece of shit




But that's what we pay them to do....If he doesn't hassle anyone and write tickets, he won't keep his job.




No, he should just do it properly like write tickets to people who is kicking fungi or messing with the elderly, you know general thug behaviour...not walking a dog.

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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: forest service employees [Re: ch1ck3n.s0up]
    #17200994 - 11/11/12 01:04 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

ch1ck3n.s0up said:
@Alan: What's the fungus in your avatar? Those aren't some weird libs, are they?





Entoloma holoconiotum.  They are quite common in the spring in the sierra nevadas, but aren't usually that pointy.


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OfflineTsukasa
sky high


Registered: 11/10/12
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Re: forest service employees [Re: blabbly]
    #17212775 - 11/13/12 01:50 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

The only people I could think of it being would be a game warden or the wild life ranger or park ranger. There the only people I can think of that can do any thing. Game Wardens are pretty much cops that get all the other shit normal cops dont and focus more on hunting and stuff, but if he was he would of said he was a warden and not some thing else. The only think a park ranger can do is remove you from the national park and or call the cops on you. Other than that saying he was in the forest service i'd say he was some high and mighty scientist or some one that thinks there the shit or some no body that wanted to fuck with you.


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: forest service employees [Re: Tsukasa]
    #17216909 - 11/14/12 04:35 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

The only think a park ranger can do is remove you from the national park and or call the cops on you.




Rangers can and will ticket/arrest you for minor violations such as picking mushrooms or plants.  You always need to hunt with a backpack, not a basket, because you never know when they will fuck you for laws you didn't even know existed.


There are maybe 2 parks in California (point reyes, salt point) where you can hunt with baskets.  In the 250 other parks, it's backpack only.  Even if you are in the 2 out of 250 parks where mushroom picking is legal, there is a strict limit, around 5 pounds.  If you have 5.1 pounds or more, you either pay a big fine or go to jail.


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InvisibleAdden
I'm a teapot
Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 39,201
Loc: Flag
Re: forest service employees [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #17216915 - 11/14/12 04:40 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
There are maybe 2 parks in California (point reyes, salt point) where you can hunt with baskets.  In the 250 other parks, it's backpack only.  Even if you are in the 2 out of 250 parks where mushroom picking is legal, there is a strict limit, around 5 pounds.  If you have 5.1 pounds or more, you either pay a big fine or go to jail.




That's so many levels of fucked up.

I mean... really?

Why's that even a law, come on now.

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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: forest service employees [Re: Adden]
    #17216926 - 11/14/12 04:43 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

No reason really.  It's the law.  And we follow it.  (but only when rangers or cops are looking)

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OfflineHook420
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Re: forest service employees [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #17220914 - 11/14/12 07:51 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:

The only think a park ranger can do is remove you from the national park and or call the cops on you.





There are maybe 2 parks in California (point reyes, salt point) where you can hunt with baskets.  In the 250 other parks, it's backpack only.  Even if you are in the 2 out of 250 parks where mushroom picking is legal, there is a strict limit, around 5 pounds.  If you have 5.1 pounds or more, you either pay a big fine or go to jail.





That just sux! Glad those laws are out west (never heard of them in pa.), is it just for certain mushrooms or all mushrooms that you pick?                                                                                        I would be in jail for years just for chants, or honey mushrooms not to mention the maitakes this year on avg. were 3 to 5 pounds my buddy found one that filled the trunk of his jeep grand cherekee (was prob. A polypore of some sort - truly a beutiful specimen)

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OfflineblueIdevil
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Re: forest service employees [Re: Hook420]
    #17221031 - 11/14/12 08:06 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Those laws are in all but two national parks and USDA lands - National Forests, Bureau of Land Management lands and National Wildlife refuges AFAIK. National Forests have Law Enforcement Officers that have guns and badges. This is how you can tell if they are LEO's. They have all the powers any federal law enforcement officer has and you are subject to FEDERAL law when in any of these areas. Forest Service LEO's are likely to harass any hippie or gutter-punk type person at any time because most of them HATE rainbow family and rainbow gatherings, and these are made up mostly of the aforementioned.

edit to add: I've had unpleasant run-ins with Forest Service LEO's in PA, The Allegheny National Forest specifically.\

edit again to add: To the OP, Reed Phalaris (sp?) grass might be why he was messing with you. You can extract DMT from it and it grows around there.


--------------------
In their daily life, all are braver than they know...
-Henry David Thoreau

Edited by blueIdevil (11/14/12 08:13 PM)

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OfflineHumility
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Re: forest service employees [Re: blueIdevil]
    #17223083 - 11/15/12 07:25 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Fucking plant police.


Get a fucking life and produce something valuable.  Biggest welfare queens there are are in government and law enforcement.  Riding around spending thousands, sometimes tens of thousands every day on fuel and maintenance costs and producing literally NOTHING but a drain on the economy by destroying products and locking up working, non-violent people.


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: forest service employees [Re: Hook420]
    #17223570 - 11/15/12 10:14 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Hook420 said:
That just sux! Glad those laws are out west (never heard of them in pa.), is it just for certain mushrooms or all mushrooms that you pick? 




All mushrooms.  In California, the mushroom picking laws suck.  All state parks have a rule like "No picking plants or mushrooms".

Good point about them being federal - Medical marijuana does not apply in national parks or forests.

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OfflineblueIdevil
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Re: forest service employees [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #17227061 - 11/15/12 11:29 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:

Hook420 said:
That just sux! Glad those laws are out west (never heard of them in pa.), is it just for certain mushrooms or all mushrooms that you pick? 




All mushrooms.  In California, the mushroom picking laws suck.  All state parks have a rule like "No picking plants or mushrooms".

Good point about them being federal - Medical marijuana does not apply in national parks or forests.



the Feds are a lot tougher about drug laws than in most states, as well as photography, and other common pursuits. The patriot act, amopng others has really changed the landscape on federal lands. Ask any Rainbow Family member, and they'll tell you - shit has gotten tough.

If you can, hunt your fungi on private property you're not likely to be harassed for trespassing on, and be very sure about local laws if you're picking elsewhere. Read the signs at trail-heads, always use a closeable, opaque containers for your finds, and only do more than identify yourself to LEO's if they threaten you bodily.


--------------------
In their daily life, all are braver than they know...
-Henry David Thoreau

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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: forest service employees [Re: blueIdevil]
    #17227720 - 11/16/12 01:44 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

blueIdevil said:
The patriot act, amopng others has really changed the landscape on federal lands.




I am going to have to call bullshit here.  How did the patriot act change things on federal lands?

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Anonymous #1

Re: forest service employees [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #17238311 - 11/17/12 11:22 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:

The only think a park ranger can do is remove you from the national park and or call the cops on you.




Rangers can and will ticket/arrest you for minor violations such as picking mushrooms or plants. 





Yep, I know someone who has a felony conviction for mushy possession following a stop and arrest by a forrest ranger (he saw the bag in the glove box as the driver was getting docs).

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OfflineblueIdevil
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Re: forest service employees [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #17238910 - 11/18/12 02:37 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

you can call bullshit if you'd like, but ask anyone else whose hunted fungi and other things in places under federal jurisdiction both before and since the passage of the USAPATRIOT Act, and they'll tell you the difference between running into a FS LEO before and after. They used to simply ask for an ID and what your purpose was, (maybe give you some shit if you littered, which II never do,)and now I've had clean-cut friends have their expensive cameras confiscated and never returned when bird-watching around fixtures related to oil and natural gas. They weren't ignorant to the law,but were given the excuse that the fact that they even had a camera on federal property was probable cause for search of all of their property on that federal land, and were subsequently arrested because of items in their trunk. They weren't hassling the officer, and acted the way a decent citizen should. In a couple cases, friends who did nothing wrong filed complaints and disputes with the USDA, etc. Even without charges, (not dropped charges,) or any hint of negative association or action, the cameras/phones were deemed "evidence in an ongoing investigation related to national security." I shit you not. Similar breaches of constitutional rights have happened to people I personally know of more than a dozen times on USDA lands. I have personally witnessed this kind of abuse of authority on three separate occasions, but fortunately was never on the defensive personally.


--------------------
In their daily life, all are braver than they know...
-Henry David Thoreau

Edited by blueIdevil (11/18/12 02:49 AM)

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InvisibleRaw
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Re: forest service employees [Re: blabbly]
    #17238985 - 11/18/12 03:31 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I feel you.  Northern IL is the worst especially this time of year when the leaves are off the trees.  In July forget about them, just stay off the trails, and see if they have night vision.  Get inside info first.  These losers do their pot eradication in March and keep a lookout near harvest cuz they can't be bothered with mosquitos and catching west nile.  It isn't even a medical state so it sucks.  They mainly look for poaching this time of year especially.  It gives them a hard-on to catch poachers but they really find all kinds of other stuff going on.  You need to be super smart to evade them consistently in rough rough terrain but in northern IL it is a super challenge.  I'm not saying you can't do it.  I'm just saying it wouldn't be worth it to me.

If you can evade the county forest cops in northern IL you can totally get away with anything in the woods and mountains of the west.

I'm actually against crimes in our national parks and public forests.  Except poaching for food and foraging.  I'm not for breaking the law but more for changing it through political action.

There is plenty of good legal free stuff in the woods for filling a bit of paperwork and being responsible.

Quote:

blabbly said:
I don't know exactly what this guys title is, but what kind of authority would a person working for the forest preserve of the county have?
Today, as I was wandering around a forest preserve/prairie area that I am at nearly everyday, I was stopped by a guy claiming to be with the "forest service". (i really should have asked his official title, but i didn't want to fuck with him). he said he was watching me to see if I was collecting anything. I told him I was just out walking my dog, and he walked off without saying anything. Scared the shit out of me, I was looking at the ground as I walked so as not to trip, then I look up, and this guy is staring at me from about 50 feet away.
Anyway, say I had been collecting something illegal. (mushrooms, perhaps?) he's not a cop, so what could he do, other than call the cops? I don't know what I could have been collecting anyway, I don't think there are many mushrooms up here (northern illinois), and it's been extremely dry lately anyway. Maybe some seeds of an endangered plant?

tldr: can guys working for the forest service detain me or do anything if i'm caught committing an illegal activity?




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OfflineCyans
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Re: forest service employees [Re: Raw]
    #17262012 - 11/22/12 12:12 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Ah I see you have encountered the Leos know affectionately around my parts as the twig pigs, pine swine etc..  They have all graduated post carry a gun and are armed with a citation book. They usually blend right in and are great trackers. Steer clear and be friendly if encountered. I would rather encounter an angry bear then an overzealous twig pig


--------------------
reporting and trading from the PNW.

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InvisibleThe Lightning
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Re: forest service employees [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #17263455 - 11/22/12 09:41 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Someone should propose new laws and send them thru email to both their state governor and their state representative.

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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: forest service employees [Re: Cyans]
    #17271235 - 11/23/12 09:18 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Cyans said:
twig pigs, pine swine etc..





Lol!!!

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