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johnm214


Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Harrassed by the police today, they threatened to bring me in and drug test me. [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#17154169 - 11/03/12 03:42 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Alan Rockefeller said:
I agree - the cops were fucking with you, but that is what they are paid to do. They didn't break any rules or policies that I can see. If they had broken into your car and searched it, then it would be time to file a complaint.
Did you miss the part where they threatened him with criminal charges for failure to voluntarily waive his constitutional rights? This is the same shit that results in innocents on death row and in lesser wrongful convictions all the time. The person is told that they better say something or they'll be charged with murder one, and they start to make shit up or just agree to the details the police tell them. Then they wind up with a conviction.
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist

Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,392
Last seen: 2 days, 23 hours
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Re: Harrassed by the police today, they threatened to bring me in and drug test me. [Re: johnm214]
#17154179 - 11/03/12 03:45 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
johnm214 said: Did you miss the part where they threatened him with criminal charges for failure to voluntarily waive his constitutional rights?
I guess I did. I went back and re-read the original post, and missed it again. Could you please quote that part of the post for me?
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jammin
MN Adopted



Registered: 03/30/11
Posts: 2,844
Loc: Missourah
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Re: Harrassed by the police today, they threatened to bring me in and drug test me. [Re: Alan Rockefeller] 1
#17154187 - 11/03/12 03:47 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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a mod and another mod conflicting?
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And when I see you coming down the line With eyes wide open Somewhere in between the past and future Where you drift in time And you can see a different point of view
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist

Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,392
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Re: Harrassed by the police today, they threatened to bring me in and drug test me. [Re: jammin]
#17154194 - 11/03/12 03:48 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
jammin said: a mod and another mod conflicting?
It's not exactly a conflict, he might have spotted a violation that I missed.
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johnm214


Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Harrassed by the police today, they threatened to bring me in and drug test me. [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#17154205 - 11/03/12 03:50 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
The second officer comes back and plays good cop bad cop with me. Gives me two options, I can come down "voluntarily" to take the test, or they can treat it as a DUI and threatened to take my license away.
He said they would charge him with a crime and take his license if he didn't waive his fourth amendment/fifth amendment rights and agree voluntarily to an invasive search of his person and detention of himself.
The cops can get a warrant or just arrest him and do that if they have the probable cause- scare tactics like this cause a lot of the false confessions.
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist

Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,392
Last seen: 2 days, 23 hours
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Re: Harrassed by the police today, they threatened to bring me in and drug test me. [Re: johnm214]
#17154641 - 11/03/12 05:09 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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I agree that's shady.
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist

Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,392
Last seen: 2 days, 23 hours
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Re: Harrassed by the police today, they threatened to bring me in and drug test me. [Re: johnm214]
#17155358 - 11/03/12 07:31 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
johnm214 said: He said they would charge him with a crime and take his license if he didn't waive his fourth amendment/fifth amendment rights and agree voluntarily to an invasive search of his person and detention of himself.
The cops can get a warrant or just arrest him and do that if they have the probable cause- scare tactics like this cause a lot of the false confessions.
Where is the law/decision that says that they can't do that?
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danielx
whatup!


Registered: 10/13/08
Posts: 6,500
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Re: Harrassed by the police today, they threatened to bring me in and drug test me. [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#17155497 - 11/03/12 08:00 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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I was about to ask the same thing. LEOs lying, manipulating and using reverse psychology to get people to confess to crimes is nothing new.
-------------------- Long live kratom
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,521
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Harrassed by the police today, they threatened to bring me in and drug test me. [Re: danielx]
#17171489 - 11/06/12 09:53 AM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
danielx said: Was pulled over on my way to school today. Cop asked for my license and paperwork. Runs my name, plays 20 questions with me. He then asks if he can search my car, I decline the search.
The cop then asks me to step out of my vehicle, so I lock my car and shut the door behind me. They terry frisk me, tell me they pulled me over for a burnt out tail light, then make the argument that I am showing symptoms of being under the influence of meth. Mind you, I was stone cold sober.
They then force me to take a variety of field sobriety tests, and take my heart rate. After the tests, the officer says hes a "trained drug expert" and been doing this job a long time and he knows for a fact I am high on meth. Tells me he doesn't appreciate me lying and he doesn't need any proof that I am high to bring me in to drug test me.
This is the point where the cop starts lying. If the officer wants to take your blood or urine by force, he's gonna need a warrant. I don't see anything in your story that gives him anything close to probable cause for a warrant.
Quote:
I keep telling them I am sober. the two police officers then go chat for 15 minutes. The second officer comes back and plays good cop bad cop with me. Gives me two options, I can come down "voluntarily" to take the test, or they can treat it as a DUI and threatened to take my license away. I said ill take option C, neither because im not intoxicated. This whole charade was done 5 minutes from my work, on a very public intersection.
The cop did lie here, but whether or not this is a violation of your civil rights depends on the specific language used by the officers. Either way, he got pretty close to the line if he didn't cross it.
A cop can't use his authority to coerce you into giving up your rights. The line where the officer's conduct becomes "coercive" is when he threatens to take actions he can't legally take. Whether the officer did so here is unclear. If he did, you can definitely sue him under 42 u.s.c. 1983 (I'd really like to know how to insert the symbol for "section").
Such lawsuits don't require that you actually be arrested at all. You were detained for a long period of time, and you were inconvenienced. It appears that you were late for work as a result. You probably can find a lawyer to represent you in a suit because the statute has a clause making the defendant liable to reasonable attorneys fees. This is something that you should consider doing.
Quote:
After another 20 minutes of me arguing my innocence, and them threatening me, they finally take down my information and let me go. Even though he "knows for a fact im high on meth".
Most likely, if you had said "I'm done talking. Do whatever it is you're going to do so I can be on my way", the encounter would have been over sooner. As long as they have you talking, they assume there is a chance that you'll say something that will give them probable cause to search and/or arrest you.
Quote:
My question- It appears they can infact arrest you merely on the officers suspicions and "expert" testimony that you are under the influence. However, if they pull your blood and you have drugs in your system from previous nights ago can they use that against you or is their some sort of time discretion on the blood test?
It all depends on your state law. If your state allows a prosecution for bodily possession (in the blood stream), then you could be prosecuted. Of course, time is your friend here, and every hour makes the amount "possessed" much less significant.
As far as using trace amounts of drugs in your blood for some type of "driving while under the influence" charge...that's probably not going to work because they're going to have to be able to point to a threshold amount set by statute or some expert will have to testify about your level of competence at whatever your tested concentration was. In any case, you'd be arguing that they pulled you over for an equipment issue and not a driving issue...so...how impaired could you have been?
Quote:
Pretty scary thought if a cop can stop you, arrest you, and force you to take a drug test no matter how sober you are at a time based solely on their bullshit fake field sobriety tests.
The short answer is: They can't...The longer answer is: They sometimes do, and they sometimes get away with it...but generally, they can't.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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HalluciNate
Trippage! / Loving



Registered: 07/25/12
Posts: 4,440
Loc: ALL THAT IS
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
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Re: Harrassed by the police today, they threatened to bring me in and drug test me. [Re: Enlil]
#17171725 - 11/06/12 10:48 AM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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This thread makes me feel empowered and powerless at the same time.
It seems like if a cop really has it out for you they could get you into big trouble for something that might not even be true.
It makes me sad.
-------------------- We are here to assist, to teach you to evolve as we go through this process together. We give our own version of things only to bring you to a higher consciousness. No matter what situation you find yourself in, it is the power of your thoughts that got you there. It is also the impeccable belief that thought creates that will transform your experience and the planetary existence.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Harrassed by the police today, they threatened to bring me in and drug test me. [Re: Enlil]
#17171794 - 11/06/12 11:04 AM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: (I'd really like to know how to insert the symbol for "section").
You mean like this: §
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,521
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Harrassed by the police today, they threatened to bring me in and drug test me. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#17171822 - 11/06/12 11:08 AM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yes
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Harrassed by the police today, they threatened to bring me in and drug test me. [Re: Enlil]
#17171831 - 11/06/12 11:09 AM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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ALT+0167
§
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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CidneyIndole
www.shroomery.OG



Registered: 05/16/05
Posts: 4,762
Loc: Love's Secret Domain
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Re: Harrassed by the police today, they threatened to bring me in and drug test me. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#17172127 - 11/06/12 12:00 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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How is that "Drug Recognition Expert" shit not illegal? I can understand having the course, and having guys like that on their squad, but being allowed to make an arrest based solely on that, I believe, is a hardcore violation of rights.
As has been indicated in this thread, there are a lot of things that can mimic the signs of a particular drug's effect profile, from makeup in the eyes, or rubbing them, right down to sheer nervousness.
Between the fact that I've had a family member murdered by a police officer, and the fact that I've gotten plenty of harassment myself, my heart rate goes WAY up when I get pulled over, even if I know I'm 110% legal. A couple times it's been worse than just that.
Once I was a little shaky (this was within a couple years of the family death, etc) and the cop flat-out asked me why. I told him flat-out that cops make me nervous as hell. That seemed acceptable to him.
-------------------- ------------------------ I am me. We are You.
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist

Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,392
Last seen: 2 days, 23 hours
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Re: Harrassed by the police today, they threatened to bring me in and drug test me. [Re: Enlil]
#17172275 - 11/06/12 12:22 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: If the officer wants to take your blood or urine by force, he's gonna need a warrant. I don't see anything in your story that gives him anything close to probable cause for a warrant.
They tested by blood forcibly in California a couple years back without a warrant. CA law includes complied consent for blood testing for drivers. The cop pulled me over for a seatbelt violation (he saw me take it off as I pulled up to my house), didn't like the large speakers in my back seat, checked my pulse with an iphone, said it was too high, arrested me under the suspicion of driving on drugs based on my pulse rate, and took my blood. I was not on drugs, but I was wearing bum-like clothing and just got back from mushroom hunting so I was covered with dirt and leaves.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,521
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Harrassed by the police today, they threatened to bring me in and drug test me. [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#17172290 - 11/06/12 12:24 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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You could have refused to let them take the blood. You would have lost your license, but you still could have refused. If you had, they would have needed a warrant.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist

Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,392
Last seen: 2 days, 23 hours
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Re: Harrassed by the police today, they threatened to bring me in and drug test me. [Re: Enlil]
#17172674 - 11/06/12 01:22 PM (11 years, 6 months ago) |
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Good point.
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