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InvisibleNot Quite Social
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Re: Alfalfa Supplemented King Oyster Straw Logs per Buckeye Oysters (Update 8.28.11) [Re: chefinainteasy]
    #16130063 - 04/23/12 07:35 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Yes, lots of rye grain spawn is an excellent supplement for straw logs!


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Offlinechefinainteasy
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Re: Alfalfa Supplemented King Oyster Straw Logs per Buckeye Oysters (Update 8.28.11) [Re: Not Quite Social]
    #16130105 - 04/23/12 07:45 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Ya since im still small scale its easy for me to have enough spawn produced to overly supplement with grain. Seems like the quicker colonization time and greater yield would out way chancing bigger yield with greater chances of contamination. But still it is tempting. Thought: over spawn and alfalfa? Is the only draw back heat?


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InvisibleNot Quite Social
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Re: Alfalfa Supplemented King Oyster Straw Logs per Buckeye Oysters (Update 8.28.11) [Re: chefinainteasy]
    #16130758 - 04/23/12 09:45 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Heat is less an issur than contaminants, in my experience.


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OfflineMycelio
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Re: Alfalfa Supplemented King Oyster Straw Logs per Buckeye Oysters (Update 8.28.11) [Re: Not Quite Social]
    #16132039 - 04/24/12 05:44 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Chefin, this is all hypothetical unless you know your yield per pound of straw. You will want to optimize your recipe until you get something like 100%BE with the first flush, which is one # fresh mushrooms per # of dry straw. Later flushes are less important with P. eryngii, as you can't count on them.

However, by using pure straw with 10% grain spawn (dry weights compared), you will surely be lower. Some use up to 30% grain spawn for maximum yield, for myself using 30% dry grain to get 10% in dry mushrooms is a waste of good food, so I prefer inedible ingredients.

If you decide to try alfalfa, just including it in your next batch will definitely fail! Go small scale to find out how it works with your pasteurization method, if you can mix alfalfa and straw evenly and if you get the heat buildup under control, which depends on the substrate diameter and the amount of alfalfa. 20% alfalfa is much, starting with 15 or 10% will be easier.

My success may be related to the completely different pasteurization method I use. I soak alfalfa pellets in a measured amount of water, let it boil, then I add straw pellets and mix thoroughly. After cooling I inoculate with a large amount of substrate spawn, so I have full colonization within a couple of days.
An alternative without heating is submerged lactic acid fermentation of straw and alfalfa for 10 - 14 days. This way there will be no problematic heat production, less risk of contamination, but slightly slower colonization, while more fresh air is required.

Generally the contamination risk of alfalfa is higher than with straw alone, but lower than with bran or coffee grounds. For me, thermogenesis is the main issue.

Carsten


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Offlinechefinainteasy
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Re: Alfalfa Supplemented King Oyster Straw Logs per Buckeye Oysters (Update 8.28.11) [Re: Mycelio]
    #16132289 - 04/24/12 08:25 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Thanks again carsten for your help. I think i will try a small separate batch of straw with 10% alfalfa. I should get a decent idea of yield on straw alone with the two batches i have going now so will have something to compare results to. I think i need to focus on getting good results with what i have safely before i move on to pushing limits with potential failure. Ill keep an update of my findings.


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Invisiblesolarity
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Re: Alfalfa Supplemented King Oyster Straw Logs per Buckeye Oysters (Update 8.28.11) [Re: chefinainteasy]
    #16133045 - 04/24/12 12:14 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I know I have said it before  but it is a lot easier and more relevant to forget about BE and just look at yield as the commercial guys do. ie wet mush/wet sub (inc spawn etc) in %.
So 1lb of mush from a 5lb bag is 20% yield, as is 1kg from a 5kg bag! All you do is weigh the bag when you start and note the total mush weight.
The problem with BE is that you have to know each time exactly what your moisture content is.

I had Eryngii and Alfalfa sucess when done in 4" thick flat trays. 2 batches of 14" (LFDia) logs so far have produced mould, but I am pretty convinced that was because they got too hot.


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Offlinechefinainteasy
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Re: Alfalfa Supplemented King Oyster Straw Logs per Buckeye Oysters (Update 8.28.11) [Re: solarity]
    #16133134 - 04/24/12 12:37 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Ya i take all my notes and only keep track of wet weight of everything. Its just easier for me to keep track of and easier for me to relate to in cooking terms. Plus every time i but straw it has a different starting weight depending on how old it is, if it has been raining, etc. So the only way for me to figure out any consistent production rate it to only weigh my hydrated cooked straw, and grain, and pack my bags based on this. Take a finished weight. Then weigh the produced mushrooms from each bag. But im still new this just some how made the most sense to me.


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Check out my youtube videos. the Mushrooms Naturally series by chefinainteasy

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OfflineMycelio
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Re: Alfalfa Supplemented King Oyster Straw Logs per Buckeye Oysters (Update 8.28.11) [Re: chefinainteasy]
    #16133648 - 04/24/12 02:55 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Right, yield is easier to start with. For a straw based substrate 100%BE translates to something about 25% yield.

Carsten


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Offlinechefinainteasy
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Re: Alfalfa Supplemented King Oyster Straw Logs per Buckeye Oysters (Update 8.28.11) [Re: Mycelio]
    #16133831 - 04/24/12 03:31 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Oh ok thats good to know


--------------------
Check out my youtube videos. the Mushrooms Naturally series by chefinainteasy

My new business is now on facebook at https://www.facebook.com/MushroomsNaturally?ref=hl

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Offlinepiltzintli
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Re: Alfalfa Supplemented King Oyster Straw Logs per Buckeye Oysters [Re: Aleon]
    #17129601 - 10/30/12 10:01 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

I scoured shroomery for info on alfalfa supplementation, and I want to put out a definite warning on alfalfa supplementation. In the teks there's little to no information on what brand of alfalfa pellet to use, nor precise information on how much to use. These are really crucial details. I experimented with alfalfa supplementation under the guidance of the various information here at shroomery on alfalfa supplementation ... I actually tend to avoid the shroomery b/c I have received alot of bad advice here: the mycellium refused to grow through the alfalfa, it cost me a weeks hard work and was an absolutely catastrophic-moldy-bacterial-contaminated mess.

I suspect this has to do with the specific brand of alfalfa I was using, but as no brand or detailed information is provided in any of the alfalfa-supplementation teks, I would just be very wary of the credibility of these teks. This really cost me dearly ...


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Invisiblelipa

Registered: 07/24/07
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Re: Alfalfa Supplemented King Oyster Straw Logs per Buckeye Oysters [Re: piltzintli]
    #17130032 - 10/30/12 11:36 AM (11 years, 3 months ago)

What the hell does it matter what kind of pellets you use? Alfalfa is alfalfa.

You need to give us some more info like what was your pasteurization time and at what temperature you used. How much alfalfa? How big are your bags ect.? If what you are wanting is sound advice.

Just so you know. These guys who are supplementing pasteurized material are strait up ridiculous. No commercial farmer would do this.. The simple truth is that the gains are not worth the risk. Just make more bags if you want more mushrooms.

When you supplement you either "short compost the substrate first then pasteurize" or "sterilize the material".

There are a lot of people on the forum who give bad advice. However there are a "lot" of people who are serious and knowledgeable. I didn't get good at growing mushrooms by just taking advice from people. I became good at growing mushrooms because I play with the ideas people present and learn through failure.

Lipa


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