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Simplepowa
In Pursuit of Knowledge


Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 4,310
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Drone Use In U.S. Could Lead To 'Warrantless Mass Surveillance': ACLU
#17116881 - 10/28/12 10:40 AM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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A request for drones from a California sheriff's office prompted the American Civil Liberties Union to point out, what officials say, are significant dangers posed by the proliferation and misuse of the aerial surveillance devices.
The Alameda County Sheriff's office in Northern California has requested a grant to purchase unmanned aerial drones for video and infrared surveillance in police, fire and rescue settings, according to Pleasanton Patch.
Sheriff Gregory Ahern insists a drone deployed by his department would not be used as a "patrol tool."
"It would be a mission-specific tool for evaluating and testing for specific incidents," Ahern said. "If we do this, we have to have permission from the [federal aviation administration] defined for each specific type of mission such as search and rescue, fires or for explosive ordinances teams to take photos of suspicious devices."
But the civil liberties group notes that strong "safeguards and accountability mechanisms" must be in place to ensure that "law enforcement does not use drones to engage in warrantless mass surveillance," according to an ACLU blogpost.
Ahern touted the affordability of drones, noting that a single drone costs between $50,000 to $100,000, whereas a helicopter costs $3 million and is expensive to operate.
But the ACLU sees the cheapness of drones as another potential danger.
"When the police have to mount elaborate and costly foot and squad patrols to follow a suspect 24/7, the expenditure of resources serves as a deterrent to abuse; it forces the police to limit their surveillance to instances when it is actually necessary," the blog post says. "Drones permit the police to surveil people at all hours of the day and, apparently, at 1/30 the cost of other forms of aerial surveillance. The natural deterrent to abuse goes away, and invites abuse."
Current Guardian columnist and former Salon blogger Glenn Greenwald echoed those concerns in a December, 2011 piece.
The fact is that drones vest vast new powers that police helicopters and existing weapons do not vest: and that’s true not just for weaponization but for surveillance. Drones enable a Surveillance State unlike anything we’ve seen. Because small drones are so much cheaper than police helicopters, many more of them can be deployed at once, ensuring far greater surveillance over a much larger area. Their small size and stealth capability means they can hover without any detection, and they can remain in the air for far longer than police helicopters.
Armed drones have become a common and controversial tool used in the so called "War on Terror" overseas.
Congress approved the use of unarmed drones in the US earlier this year.
Since then, worry over privacy and other civil rights abuses has inspired legislation in Congress that would put some clamps on law enforcement's ability to use the unmanned aircrafts.
“When it comes to privacy protections for the American people, drones are flying blind,” Rep. Ed Markey (D-Mass.) said in a statement released in August. “Drones are already flying in U.S. airspace – with thousands more to come – but with no privacy protections or transparency measures in place."
By Simon McCormack 10/19/2012 3:47 pm EDT
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/19/drones-in-the-us-surveillance_n_1988540.html
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Carl Sagan - "Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people." --- Robert Pirsig - "When one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion." --- Brian Cox - "[One] problem with today’s world is that everyone believes they have the right to express their opinion AND have others listen to it. The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense."
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Drone Use In U.S. Could Lead To 'Warrantless Mass Surveillance': ACLU [Re: Simplepowa]
#17116894 - 10/28/12 10:43 AM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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they dont need a warrant to watch people
and a helicopter is $3mil?
I think I'm opening up a helicopter sales business
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Sticky Green



Registered: 03/20/09
Posts: 1,396
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Re: Drone Use In U.S. Could Lead To 'Warrantless Mass Surveillance': ACLU [Re: Prisoner#1]
#17116925 - 10/28/12 10:47 AM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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Police will abuse this power like they do everything else.
On the bright side, plinking with my .22 will be fun again.
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



Registered: 10/09/10
Posts: 44,805
Loc: Ottawa
Last seen: 5 hours, 39 minutes
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Re: Drone Use In U.S. Could Lead To 'Warrantless Mass Surveillance': ACLU [Re: Simplepowa]
#17116926 - 10/28/12 10:48 AM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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As long as the cops have a warrant to use the drones, and knows exactly where to deploy it, when to start recording and when to stop, I wouldn't have a problem with it.
Quote:
Simplepowa said: "When the police have to mount elaborate and costly foot and squad patrols to follow a suspect 24/7, the expenditure of resources serves as a deterrent to abuse; it forces the police to limit their surveillance to instances when it is actually necessary," the blog post says. "Drones permit the police to surveil people at all hours of the day and, apparently, at 1/30 the cost of other forms of aerial surveillance. The natural deterrent to abuse goes away, and invites abuse."
Some could argue that this is the best increase in productivity for law enforcement in the last 100 years.
But it is true that if the cops have a a few extra dollar in their budget at the end of the year, you could expect more attempts to get warrants
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Drone Use In U.S. Could Lead To 'Warrantless Mass Surveillance': ACLU [Re: Patlal]
#17116938 - 10/28/12 10:49 AM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Patlal said: As long as the cops have a warrant to use the drones, and knows exactly where to deploy it, when to start recording and when to stop, I wouldn't have a problem with it.
cops dont need warrants to watch people, if they did there wouldnt be any police cameras
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



Registered: 10/09/10
Posts: 44,805
Loc: Ottawa
Last seen: 5 hours, 39 minutes
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Re: Drone Use In U.S. Could Lead To 'Warrantless Mass Surveillance': ACLU [Re: Prisoner#1]
#17116962 - 10/28/12 10:53 AM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
Patlal said: As long as the cops have a warrant to use the drones, and knows exactly where to deploy it, when to start recording and when to stop, I wouldn't have a problem with it.
cops dont need warrants to watch people, if they did there wouldnt be any police cameras
The cameras are in public places.
The drones have the capacity to invade privacy because the cams are high up looking down.
Just like wire taps, the cops can only record what the warrant allows them to. If the perp is on the phone talking to mom, you can't record. If he's talking to another suspect, you can. So I figure the same thing would happen with drones. You can only record when the drone is on top of the target, zoomed in so it doesn't see the neighbors.
If they fail to do this, judges wouldn't allow it in court.
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EvolveShrooms
Brahman Herder



Registered: 05/30/11
Posts: 2,233
Loc: The dream hangar
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Re: Drone Use In U.S. Could Lead To 'Warrantless Mass Surveillance': ACLU [Re: Patlal]
#17116980 - 10/28/12 10:56 AM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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Watching and recording are different things yo. Not that any of it matters, we already live in a fucking police state run psychopathic warmongers.
IMO our species has been going downhill since we stopped revolving our societies around psychedelics.
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The Only Illusion Is Division
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Drone Use In U.S. Could Lead To 'Warrantless Mass Surveillance': ACLU [Re: Patlal]
#17117054 - 10/28/12 11:15 AM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Patlal said:
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
Patlal said: As long as the cops have a warrant to use the drones, and knows exactly where to deploy it, when to start recording and when to stop, I wouldn't have a problem with it.
cops dont need warrants to watch people, if they did there wouldnt be any police cameras
The cameras are in public places.
The drones have the capacity to invade privacy because the cams are high up looking down.
nonsense, can the cameras look through your roof? helicopters are high up in the air and they have cameras, they dont need warrants for that, a simple rule of thumb is "dont do illegal shit in your front yard" because if you do, the traffic cameras can see over the fence and right into your bedroom... canadadian cops were recently busted for just that
Quote:
Just like wire taps, the cops can only record what the warrant allows them to.
bullshit, a wire tap is much different than videotaping shit going on outside of a building, once you step out of your front door you loose all expectations of privacy because you've walked into a public space. a phone tap is an act over a line that cannot be intercepted by the general public and a person has a reasonable expectation of privacy which is why a warrant is needed for a phone tap
Quote:
So I figure the same thing would happen with drones. You can only record when the drone is on top of the target, zoomed in so it doesn't see the neighbors.
If they fail to do this, judges wouldn't allow it in court.
then surveillance of someone walking into a public park would be inadmissible of there was someone in the background even if they were meeting with someone they believed to be a co-conspirator in a crime
there are no laws preventing public recording
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



Registered: 10/09/10
Posts: 44,805
Loc: Ottawa
Last seen: 5 hours, 39 minutes
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Re: Drone Use In U.S. Could Lead To 'Warrantless Mass Surveillance': ACLU [Re: Prisoner#1]
#17117105 - 10/28/12 11:25 AM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
Patlal said:
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
Patlal said: As long as the cops have a warrant to use the drones, and knows exactly where to deploy it, when to start recording and when to stop, I wouldn't have a problem with it.
cops dont need warrants to watch people, if they did there wouldnt be any police cameras
The cameras are in public places.
The drones have the capacity to invade privacy because the cams are high up looking down.
nonsense, can the cameras look through your roof? helicopters are high up in the air and they have cameras, they dont need warrants for that, a simple rule of thumb is "dont do illegal shit in your front yard" because if you do, the traffic cameras can see over the fence and right into your bedroom... canadadian cops were recently busted for just that
What about the privacy of your backyard? Lets say you got high enough hedges so that no neighbor can see you?
Kind of an invasion of privacy. The drone passes over you at the same time your wife is giving you a BJ in the pool.
Cops can't keep shit like that even if they spot you pot plant. I doubt a judge would allow that.
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



Registered: 10/09/10
Posts: 44,805
Loc: Ottawa
Last seen: 5 hours, 39 minutes
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Re: Drone Use In U.S. Could Lead To 'Warrantless Mass Surveillance': ACLU [Re: Prisoner#1]
#17117119 - 10/28/12 11:26 AM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
Patlal said:
Quote:
So I figure the same thing would happen with drones. You can only record when the drone is on top of the target, zoomed in so it doesn't see the neighbors.
If they fail to do this, judges wouldn't allow it in court.
then surveillance of someone walking into a public park would be inadmissible of there was someone in the background even if they were meeting with someone they believed to be a co-conspirator in a crime
there are no laws preventing public recording
If your in a public place, you can be filmed, recorded, photographed, etc. You are in public by choice.
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amilibertine
It’s good to be back!



Registered: 06/10/09
Posts: 3,241
Loc: Northern South Midwest
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Re: Drone Use In U.S. Could Lead To 'Warrantless Mass Surveillance': ACLU [Re: Patlal]
#17117217 - 10/28/12 11:39 AM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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Why has no one mentioned that these mini drones can fly at much lower altitudes than their big brothers?
These things could conceivably hover next to your house and look in your windows, right?
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