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InvisibleSclorch
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Looking for The Philosopher's Stone?
    #1710797 - 07/13/03 02:57 AM (20 years, 7 months ago)

Well, it doesn't exist.
And neither does a universal frame of reference.

Quit looking for it... you're wasting time and energy.

If you want easy answers, life ain't got 'em... and it's likely that death doesn't have any either. So you're stuck in the muck, just like everyone else, so get used to it.

And don't bother with the existential nausea... it's unbecoming.
Look to the slack and relax your amorphous blob of thoughts in this muck bath.


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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OfflineMAIA
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Re: Looking for The Philosopher's Stone? [Re: Sclorch]
    #1711040 - 07/13/03 09:20 AM (20 years, 7 months ago)

The Philosopher's Stone is about imagination. Some use it more often than others though....
If feel good when i use it, makes me more human i think.

MAIA


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Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire

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OfflineMalachi
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Re: Looking for The Philosopher's Stone? [Re: Sclorch]
    #1711467 - 07/13/03 01:10 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

sclorch, you don't see the irony is proclaiming categorically that answers are not to be found that a "universal frame of reference" is impossible-- this statement implies a universal objectivity! it's an absolute statement. so what I'm saying is that just cause you can't get off as well as you'd like to on shrooms doesn't mean that others also don't.

btw, this is the problem with relativism- all morals are relative is an absolute statement.


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The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich

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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Looking for The Philosopher's Stone? [Re: Malachi]
    #1711518 - 07/13/03 01:28 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

Ah Malachi... you assume too much.
Of course I realize the irony of such statements. :wink:

In my world, there are only probabilities (read: muck).
But the probability of some things go out so many decimal places that I say "fuck it, let's round that baby up... when it quits working, we'll fix it."

To me, this is much different from some multifaceted, universal frame of reference.  My "absolutes" are individually set... so it is not the same.


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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Offlineatomikfunksoldier
T'was born oftrue in the yearof the cock!

Registered: 04/07/03
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Re: Looking for The Philosopher's Stone? [Re: Sclorch]
    #1711659 - 07/13/03 02:35 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

sclorch: I dont know man, I think the so-called answers are pretty easy.

you are a lifeform that needs food/shelter/water to survive. In many instances you also need to reproduce in order to survive.

thats it. thats everything.



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enjoy the entertaining indentity i have constructed for you while you can.

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OfflineSole_Worthy
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Re: Looking for The Philosopher's Stone? [Re: Sclorch]
    #1711704 - 07/13/03 02:55 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

the aswer my friend....is insuide ya noggin


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get it all together get like birds of a feather

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OfflineGrav
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Re: Looking for The Philosopher's Stone? [Re: Sole_Worthy]
    #1712006 - 07/13/03 04:55 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

I think it all depends what angle you are coming from...

Right now I am partly with Sclorch. For me it is a wild goose chase, to try and find some sort of 'ultimate' answer or meaning to existence... Instead I've been working on unearthing the magic in everyday life.
There are endless amounts of factual down-to-earth knowledge to be obtained... It's like a freakin candy store.


btw, what is the philospher's stone? Is it the concept of finding some solid philosophical evidence?

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OfflineMalachi
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Re: Looking for The Philosopher's Stone? [Re: Grav]
    #1712162 - 07/13/03 05:56 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

why can't appreciation for reality _be_ the "big" truth?

and to get their you have to loose reality? makes sense to me.


grav- as far as I understand it, a philosophers stone is a catch all answer, like "god's will" was for awhile. I don't actually know though, so maybe I'm wrong.


--------------------
The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich

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OfflineGrav
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Re: Looking for The Philosopher's Stone? [Re: Malachi]
    #1712794 - 07/13/03 09:41 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

Well, for what it is worth I don't think I would have this appreciation for reality if I didn't spend so much time exploring the outer edges of it... searching for that 'stone' or whatever..

I guess it's all about making the effort

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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Looking for The Philosopher's Stone? [Re: Grav]
    #1713064 - 07/13/03 11:21 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

Fuck... everytime I try to be poetic... it never gets across... it's always the worst connotation that is assumed...

oh well


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Looking for The Philosopher's Stone? [Re: Sclorch]
    #1713085 - 07/13/03 11:29 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

Dumbledore destroyed it. You have to make a new one if you still want it.


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"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Looking for The Philosopher's Stone? [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1713105 - 07/13/03 11:40 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

LOL  :lol:


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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Offlinetrippinlizard
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Re: Looking for The Philosopher's Stone? [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1713117 - 07/13/03 11:45 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

i'm glad to say i found the PS, but as a human, i cannot sufficently explain it to my concept of "you" or "someone else". sorry.

this might help. i'm a idealist (meaning all we believe exists in our mind) and i'm a realistic optimist. eh. oh ,well. you would have to see what i've seen and interpret it the same way, and that's just too fuckin hard.


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fine. do what you want, but i'm drinking the water.

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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Looking for The Philosopher's Stone? [Re: trippinlizard]
    #1713128 - 07/13/03 11:56 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

Oh... right... well, thanks for all your help...


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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Offlinetrippinlizard
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Re: Looking for The Philosopher's Stone? [Re: Sclorch]
    #1713218 - 07/14/03 12:43 AM (20 years, 7 months ago)

sorry, i'm just tired.
reality is entirely what you make of it: all virtues are relative.
the irony of that statemet alone shows that there are simultaneously no virtures worth holding above the rest and that occasionally one is worth the most. in a world where all life is mortal, the search for truth is often a long road that goes unfinished and what is more lamentable than to die without achievement, either mental or tangible?

E=MC2, the theory of relativity, light is always moving at the same speed regardless of the observation point, so all observation points truly are the same in terms of EMR, this is completely opposite the point about virture in which the observation point is the determining factor, so the contradiction is the only concept that is true all the time.

mix that up with all the experiences i've had in my entire life and it makes complete sense in an abstract way.  but like i said, you had to be there and see it through my eyes.

thats just a bite of the all encompassing 'contradiction equilibrium' theory i have. it would take a long time to explain  :frown: and after i was done it would most likely look like bunk to anyone else. so that's it. eh.


--------------------
fine. do what you want, but i'm drinking the water.

Edited by trippinlizard (07/14/03 12:58 AM)

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OfflineMalachi
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Registered: 06/19/02
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Re: Looking for The Philosopher's Stone? [Re: trippinlizard]
    #1713336 - 07/14/03 01:31 AM (20 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

trippinlizard said:

all virtues are relative. the irony of that statemet alone shows that there are simultaneously no virtures worth holding above the rest and that occasionally one is worth the most.





no, the irony of that statement shows that relativism is intellectually unsatisfying.
Quote:


in a world where all life is mortal, the search for truth is often a long road that goes unfinished and what is more lamentable than to die without achievement, either mental or tangible?





by "achievement" (of the "search for truth") you imply that there is a something other than living a healthy, active and loving lifestlye to life to figure out or find. what is it?

Quote:


E=MC2, the theory of relativity, light is always moving at the same speed regardless of the observation point, so all observation points truly are the same in terms of EMR,




really? I thought that it's the other way around (with relativity). ??



Quote:

this is completely opposite the point about virture in which the observation point is the determining factor, so the contradiction is the only concept that is true all the time.





I agree with sclorch: this doesn't help. besides that, saying that the contradiction is the only "true concept" is a bit much. the contrast between relativity and your moral theories is it?



--------------------
The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich

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OfflineMalachi
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Re: Looking for The Philosopher's Stone? [Re: Malachi]
    #1713459 - 07/14/03 03:14 AM (20 years, 7 months ago)

alright, nevermind. you guys are right. this link proves it. I'll be damned, all things are relative.


--------------------
The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich

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Offlinetrippinlizard
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Re: Looking for The Philosopher's Stone? [Re: Malachi]
    #1713656 - 07/14/03 07:57 AM (20 years, 7 months ago)

yeah, oh well. i think i was so tired that i just kinda kept typing about my CE theory without explaining very well.  your points are good, and i believe i got realitivity right, but i'm not a physicist.

another big chunk of my theory revolves around the relationship between free will and destiny, which makes it hard to predict the future or find anything meaningful/less

so, yeah. i think i'll throw my lot in with the PS not existing after much tought, i think philosophy can help describe our world through anecdotes, and concepts of reality, but there is no fundamental "catch all".

unles i prove my theroy :lol:


--------------------
fine. do what you want, but i'm drinking the water.

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OfflineAlbino_Jesus
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Re: Looking for The Philosopher's Stone? [Re: Sclorch]
    #1713813 - 07/14/03 10:00 AM (20 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Sclorch said:
Fuck... everytime I try to be poetic... it never gets across... it's always the worst connotation that is assumed...






Some of us understand.... yet I can't seem to understand that polyphonic spree crap yet.... er?


--------------------
The only difference between the Republican and Democratic parties is the velocities with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door.
-Ralph Nader


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Looking for The Philosopher's Stone? [Re: Sclorch]
    #1714111 - 07/14/03 12:21 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

Well, my lengthy post last night vanished. Perhaps the Lord didn't like it :smile: Be that as it may - if I didn't believe in the existence of the Philosophers' Stone - because I had never experienced it first - my license plate would not read ALCHEMY as it has for a decade.

Now, I grant you that the Stone may not exist in the sense which you hold it in your mind, but then again, though I believe solidly in GOD, I do NOT believe in The-Old-Bearded-Guy-In-The-Sky. It's the same kind of deal.

Only Harry Potter fans (the original title was 'Philosophers' Stone, which remained thus in England, while it was marketed as the 'Sorcerer's Stone' to power-hungry, intellectually-bereft Americans) and the 'vulgar' alchemists sought a material stone. The true Philosophers' Stone, like the true alchemical Gold, is a spiritual reality. While it is true that longevity is the sought-after aspect in Chinese alchemy, the European variety sought to establish the Indwelling Christ. Once established, such a harmony with nature could be set up that it would then and only then be possible to transmute matter - i.e., lead into gold.

For me, by way of Jungian Edward Edinger - alchemy is a powerful metaphorical system for doing psychotherapy - for transforming meaningless suffering into a meaningful life. While I am not in full-time possession BY the Philosophers' Stone (one does NOT possess it, one is possessed BY It) - It's manifestation in my Center waxes and wanes, since it is not my will but His Will.

On a lesser level, since I consider myself to be a philosopher, first and foremost, and the 'high' or 'stone' that I most appreciate derives from Entheogens [God-generated-within], I have considered the class of 'substances' known as Entheogens to be the 'Stone,' materially taken. In fact, the alchemical treatise called 'Tractatus Aureus' says: "Our most precious stone, cast forth upon the dunghill, being most dear, is made the vilest of the vile." So perhaps our precious spores are the stone - cast upon the dunghill - with our dear "little ones'' who then emerge - which the greater society calls vile. Hey...who says we can't play with words to make meaning, huh? 


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Looking for The Philosopher's Stone? [Re: Sclorch]
    #1714158 - 07/14/03 12:41 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

In physics, the pursuit of the Theory of Everything embodies the search for "the easy answer".

It does exist and is attainable, but it may not be that easy until it's already known  :wink:

Simplicity from complexity  :smile: 


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Looking for The Philosopher's Stone? [Re: trendal]
    #1714865 - 07/14/03 03:39 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

Sounds like a few of you are trying to place the burden of proof on me... be careful.


--------------------
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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Looking for The Philosopher's Stone? [Re: Sclorch]
    #1714869 - 07/14/03 03:40 PM (20 years, 7 months ago)

I would never do such a thing :wink:

But I also try to bring people to their own conclusions, as opposed to just offering an answer  :rolleyes:


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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